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HILLARY CLINTON FORUM
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Hillary Rodham Clinton
Future President of the United States
Supporting Hillary Clinton for President since 1995

The Hillary Clinton Forum is featured in the following major media:
Times of London, November 19, 1998      Newsweek, December 13, 1998
MSNBC for three weeks in August 1998 The Drudge Report, July 28, 1998.
MSNBC TV January 4, 1999
South African Broadcasting Corporation: TV Shoot May 27, 1999 & two prior broadcasts
  ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITTANICA February 25, 1999
TIME.COM March 1,1999 VOL.153 NO.8 "A Race of Her Own"
Giles Whittell reports in The Times of London

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ARCHIVED FORUMS

HILLARY WILL HAND GIULIANI HIS HEAD IN LANDSLIDE VICTORY! -- POOR GUY IS NO MATCH AGAINST "SEXIEST WOMAN ALIVE"

Message: I told you Bubba would WIN BIG!
Nostradamus is never wrong (except once).

Message: The War is Over!
Bubba won BIG! Really BIG!
Yeay for the "Comeback Kid"
We love you Bill

Message: I go on vacation for a few days and come back to a hate-filled forum. Come on right wingers. Have you guys no joy in your lives that you hate so much?

Message: Skewl Here is a quote from a Steve Lopez article in this months issue of Time. This clearly verifies my point that America is now an aristocracy. This goes on everyday and noon do a thing about it, not that they can.

        "Despite the bleak outlook for public schools , civic spirit is running high in Philadelphia if you measure it in another way
    thanks to a $160 million package of public financing approved by the state legislature in February, the Eagles and Phillies
    will soon get new stadiums. Across the state in Pittsburgh, where the public schools anticipate a $30 million shortfall in
    the next budget, the Pirates and Steelers will also get new homes, with the state kicking in $160 million toward the cost."

I'm not bashing football, I am bashing the tactics that big corporations use everyday to suck the individual and family pockets to line those of CEO's and politician's.
I have no problem with how much our leaders earn. They are very correct when they say they can earn more in the private sector, BUT, and it's a big one.
America was set up to tax the people that made the money (corporations), NOT the individual directly on wages rather on the things they bought with those wages
already taxed before the product or service was out the door. Thus, what they are doing now is the exact opposite. They are taxing us heavily, and giving the corporations
a free ride, just so they don't move to the next-door neighboring state......or worse, Mexico. (Thanks NAFTA) Let's not even get into the fact that there is NO money in Social
Security....NONE! Yep, part of the deficit that the government owes. IE: yes boys and girls, you are going pay higher taxes and get less benefits (if any at all) on money that
was already taken in tax for safekeeping by good ole uncle sammy, because your parents and grandparents obviously were not capable of taking care of their own savings.
Sounds like anti-trust to me. (hi bill) Only one thing......the government doesn't like to prosecute "lobbyists" that give heavily to campaign donations.

Ok, I've rambled far too long and can feel the pressure of a full bladder.....
I encourage anyone to point out things that i may have wrong, i'll take it well if given well.
And stop putting pics up that may be offensive to people.
You think they want to control the internet.....don't give them a reason!
control yourself first!
Peace man!,
Fudd.

Message: BTW: NOON is my scottish way of saying NO ONE Oh gees, before i'm called a racist, i got the scott in me. eww, that sounds bad....I mean i'm scottish The "WAR" is over!! (we'll see)

Yes, I WON BIG!

I told everyone at the stare of my humanitarian bombing that I would win. Since I never gave any solid goals or objectives I couldn't lose.

So I didn't stop the ethnic cleansing. Okay maybe I sped the process by my attack. The good news is that much of the cleaning I caused will be reversed.

Now there will be peace in Yugoslavia. Okay, maybe there won't be and the Serbs and Albanians will continue to hate one another. Plus terrorist activity of the KLA will probably increase and a Serb nationalistic response is expected. Who cares, that's for the next president to worry about on HIS watch. Let him worry about the safety of the troops mired in Kosovo for the next millenium

And the expense of the war? By the time it's all over, that's twenty BILLION bucks not including any Marshall-type plan. Considering Yugoslavia has incurred over 100 BILLION dollars in damage....

BUT, HEY...let's not lose site of the really big victories!! When's the last time you heard anything about my nuclear secrets problems with China? EFFECTIVELY DEAD STORY! Or when's the last time you heard anything about that tattletale BITCH Juanita Brodderick! I'M LAUGHING! Yesssssiiiiirrrrreeeeeeee! Life is good, the people's attention's are focused where I want them and all of you can celebrate my victory and thank God that I'm here to take care of you all!

Hey! Did anyone see the pic of Paula Jones? Whoa! Why cain't Hillary do whutever she done? I wonder if they do lipo on ankles. Hillary's got some MIGHTLY fat ankles. And that butt....It just gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger...

Message: I also want everyone here to push your Reps in D.C. to pass my new gun control legislation. I also want to remind everyone that these new laws are not draconian at all. Waivers can be had for a modest contribution to the DNC. We will accept any currency, but U.S. dollars or Chinese RNB are preferred!

'Aggression is over', Serbs told

State-run television, which broke into its evening programs to report to conclusion of talks between NATO and Yugoslav generals in Macedonia, hailed the agreement as a victory for "the policies of President Slobodan Milosevic."

I cain't believe the nerve of that guy! VICTORY? Puuulllleeeaaaassse! Some people will go so low. Victory? I bet he didn't even have any scandals to cover up!

Message: Cain't you conservatives give up your hate for awhile. Me and the editor see far too much of it. Incidently, we define hate as any message that criticizes me or liberals in general, regardless of circumstance or underlying truth.

Editors, I'm so glad you jumped back on the ol' Wee-Willey-Wagon. Despite all your mouthin' and stuff I told you you'd fall into line, march the march, chant the chant, and you are. Welcome back aboard! I love you!

Message: MOVING TO NEW YORK? THE PRESS STATED THAT THE CLINTON'S ARE BUYING A HOME IN NY.WITH YOUR CURRENT BANKRUPTCY PROBLEMS, WHO IS GOING TO HOLD THE MORTGAGE? THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT?

Heard a good one; Bill Clinton will go down in History as "the President after Bush". (I just love double entendres!)

Message: Wee-Willey-Jeff I wish all right-wingers had your sense of humor. I would like to suggest that you start a school to retrain these hatemongers to express themselves with some modicum of decency and humor.

I have recently visited the Freedom Forum and the worst infighting has broken out within the right-wing ranks. They need you to change hate into wit.

The right wing hatemongers on this forum are so hate-filled they fail to notice that your anti-Clinton messages remain on the forum. They just don't get it. They need some instruction from you.

DETROIT, June 9 (UPI) Detroit police say two boys ages 12 and 13 have been charged with sexually assaulting a 3-year-old girl, burning her with a candle and cigarettes, and putting her in a clothes dryer.

The girl is recovering at Children's Hospital. She's listed in fair condition with serious burns to her face, neck, arms and back.

The boys, whose names were not released, were arraigned as juveniles today on numerous charges. They're lodged in a juvenile detention center.

Police say the attack occurred while the boys' 15-year-old sister was supposed to be babysitting the victim. At the time the 3-year-old's mother was working.

For some reason the older girl left, putting her brothers in charge of the 3-year-old.

After returning from work the mother discovered the burns and rushed the child to the hospital. Doctors later determined she'd been sexually assaulted.

Police say the boys told child-abuse investigators the 3-year-old would not stop crying, so they put her in the clothes dryer and turned it on for about 30 seconds. Later the girl was burned with candle wax and cigarettes.

Police say the boys and their sister apparently live in the same east-side house as the victim and her mother.

OK Libs! Let's hear it! WE MUST HAVE DRYER CONTROL! Damn the National Dryer Association!

Message: Yep! Ol' Wee-Willey is one hechuvacharmer! I've charmed my way into many a woman's pants. Of course, I've forced myself in a few pairs as well but what's really important is that I shared of myself.

Milosevic gets everything he wanted PLUS he will soon get BILLIONS of dollars of taxpayer money to rebuild his country (which will be better than it was before the war). Refugees going home - yeah right! We destroyed all the homes and infrastructure in Kosovo - there is no home to go to! Bill "weasel boy" Clinton is also personally responsible for killing more civilian noncombatants than actual combatants. Both side faired well - few military people we killed - but weasel boy sure killed a lot of innocent children, women, and men. You Democrat Sheeple are actually calling this a "Big Win" - YOU MAKE ME SICK! So dead children is a BIG WIN for Democrat Sheeple! What happened to the liberals of the 60's? (they all sold out to Clinton worship or became compassionate conservatives!). Editor - hundreds of dead civilians are a BIG WIN for you! You should be ashamed of yourself - your worship of this man has forced you to eject ALL of your morals and ethics. Editor - you excused him for using subordinate employees half his age to adulterously sexually service him, you excused him for sexually harassing more then one employee, you excused him for RAPING a women, and now you say he is a BIG WINNER for killing hundreds of innocent civilians. How do you sleep at night? Do you see the faces of all the innocent women and children Clinton had killed? And when you see them do you say "Don't complain kids - you did not die in vain - you gave your life so weasel boy Clinton could rebuild a legacy - heck, he don't want to only known as the BLOW JOB PRESIDENT and the only elected president to be impeached - hey, dead innocent women and children, stop whining and have a cigar!"

Milosevic is seen as a hero to his people and Bill "weasel boy" Clinton thinks that is a victory - What a buffoon. The Democrats are pledging to cut the already decimated military and Bill "weasel boy" Clinton has just committed to sending a large amount of troops to Kosovo for an undetermined length of the time - WAKE UP Democrat Sheeple! Remember Bosnia - Bill "weasel boy" Clinton sent troops there years ago and promised they would be out by Christmas 1996 - they are still there and it looks like thy will be there forever. The Democrats continue to cut the military while expanding its deployment. If we don't get a REAL president in the White House soon our military will be rated second or third. When will the Sheeple of Democrat Party of Mental Slavery wake up?

Shame on Ken Starr for wasting Thirty Billion Dollars on a pointless, illegal War in Yugoslavia. How dare he poke his nose into another country's private business! He's just Ethnic Cleansing Obsessed. Doesn't he have anything better to do than try to persecute Milosovic over his country's private business? All that money could have been used to fight the NRA and Make Our Schools Safer and Save Social Security and Give Tax Breaks To The Poor and Provide Free Healthcare For The Less Fortunate and Provide Coverage For Prescriptions and Mental Healthcare. So much good could have been done but you chose to waste that money on a lost cause! Milosovic is still in charge (so much for the Hitler comparison). The refugees will likely never return and won't be safe if they do. The KLA won't be disarmed nor will the Yugoslav Army. The killing has only just begun and it's all your fault! You're evil! Evil, evil, evil!

I tried this piece with Clinton's name but it just didn't seem to work on this Liberal Forum. 40 Million dollars doesn't seem like all that much money any more does it?

BELGRADE, Yugoslavia (AP) -- Here is a text of President Slobodan Milosevic's televised address to the nation Thursday following suspension of the NATO bombing campaign and the beginning of the Serb withdrawal from Kosovo.

At this moment, our thoughts go out to the heroes who have given their lives for the defense of the fatherland in the struggle for freedom and dignity of our nation. All their names will be announced in full but at this moment I would like to inform you that in the war which lasted exactly 11 weeks, from March 24 until today, 462 Yugoslav army soldiers and 114 police were killed.

We shall never be able to repay them. We have to do what we can. Our duty is to care for their families and repay them by being forever ready to defend our freedom and dignity of this land for which they laid down their lives.

The entire nation participated in this war -- from babies in hospitals to intensive care unit patients, to soldiers in air defense trenches and soldiers on the borders.

No one will forget the heroism of the defenders of the bridges, the citizens who defended the factories, the squares and the cities ... their state and their people.

The people are the heroes and should feel like heroes and behave as such: with dignity, nobility and responsibility.

Throughout the rallies in this past year in our country, one motto was often heard: We will not give up Kosovo.

Today, the territorial integrity and sovereignty is guaranteed by the G-8 nations, the U.N., This guarantee is in the draft resolution.

Open questions regarding the possible independence of Kosovo in the time before the aggression have been sealed with the Belgrade agreement.

We survived and defended the country and raised the entire problem to the pinnacle of world authority, the pyramid -- the United Nations.

The problem was returned to be solved under the auspices of the United Nations and in tune with the U.N. Charter.

These troops will have their prime responsibility to ensure the safety of all citizens.

Also under the U.N. aegis, a political process will take place, based on the principles already discussed and on the basis of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of our country.

This political process can only involve the autonomy of Kosovo and nothing else.

By coming before the U.N., we have not only defended our country but have brought back to the world stage the U.N., which did not function for 80 days before this aggression. This is our contribution to the world: to prevent creation of a unipolar world, to prevent the acceptance of a world based on the dictat from one center.

I think this contribution will be huge in history and that the heroism of our people in the resistance to the many-times stronger and bigger enemy will mark the end of the 20th century.

We have shown that our army is invincible - I am sure the best army in the world and by the army I mean the soldiers, police, all forces of national defense.

They showed the entire world how one defends his nation, how unified and strong we stood. Because the people were the army and the army was the people.

Never before have our people been so united and never in our history did we have fewer cowards who fled the country to await the war's end abroad in safety.

At this moment, we face many new problems which will open many new duties at the end of the aggression and the beginning of peace.

To take care of the ones who need it the most, the families of the killed, those who have been maimed for life, all those workers and farmers and citizens whom the war damaged and who need help.

We shall begin rebuilding our bridges immediately, our factories, our roads, We have to restart again a great development to reflect the vitality of all our citizens.

We have defended the only multiethnic society left over as a remnant of the former Yugoslavia -- this is another great achievement of our defense.

The forces that come to Kosovo will serve peace, regardless from which countries they come from.

An army always follows the orders and the order here is to protect the people and the peace.

The work ahead will require great mobilization. I think that the unity in these difficult times is a major achievement which we have to preserve in times ahead.

I wish all citizens of Yugoslavia much joy and success in reconstruction of our country!''

"I go on vacation for a few days and come back to a hate-filled forum." You Liberals amaze me. If you resort to name calling and suggested personal attacks, it's okay. But if a Conservative simply expresses a point of view or states facts, we are ugly, evil people.

"EVERYONE knows that right wingers are dogmatic, hate filled, intolerant, homophobic, women oppressing, judgemental pigs! Democrats are full of love and tolerance you moron! "

"Damn right editor. I'm so sick of those intolerant, hate-filled, dogmatic, extremist, judgemental, right-wing PIGS always saying bad things about Hillary."

"All those intolerant, right-wing prudes want to do is tear down all that we have acclopmished."

"Message: Hillary, don't let them get you down. There are so many negative people in the world who just have to tear others down to make themselves feel better. We know all about those folks and their little problems."

"Right wing hate mongers like the pigs Jerry Falwell and Ken Starr are going the way of the dinosaur, you will be joining them soon on the scrapheap of extinguished right wing hate."

Unfortunately China has strict immigration laws and neither Hillary nor Bill could get Chinese citizenship with their criminal past. Bummer, huh? Besides, they'd be "little fish in a big pond" over there. Here there is still some expectation that the laws be obeyed (in spite of the open betrayal of the Constitution by the Senate). Over there corruption is widely and openly accepted. After all, they are Communists.

Message: Contrary to Liberal Doctrine I can assure you that an erection does not count as personal growth.

Message: Extremely excited about the impending prospect of your run for senator of New York. As a young minority woman from Brooklyn, I can tell you that the political scene in New York, especially in New York City, becomes more disheartening everyday. I am most eager to assist in your campaign and would love some information as to how I can play a part in your imminent victory!!!

I hate to agree, even a little, with the Editors but I must say there has been more personal level digs at Liberals than I like to see. We have the High Ground in the Arena of Ideas. Let that suffice. This is, after all, a battle of philosophies. Both sides have Criminals representing them in DC just as there are Corrupt Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. Any system of power is doomed to corruption. More power, more corruption. People are not, on the average, disciplined enough to avoid abusing it. This is precisely why the power must be retained by the individuals in our society. A thousand Charles Manson's working double shifts couldn't do as much harm to our fellow human beings in six years as the Current Administration has managed. Not even close.

Welfare was the "Second Slavery" in this Nation. The evidence is clear. The Democrats and the Republicans in the Senate were equally guilty of ignoring the Constitution in the Impeachment Trial. The blood of thousands of Yugoslavians is on all our hands. Congress could have stopped the War. They lacked the balls. Our leaders, on both sides, have failed us. Trying to defend either side is a pointless task. The score is still
Government Employees : 1
American Citizens : 0

I hate to agree, even a little, with the Editors but I must say there has been more personal level digs at Liberals than I like to see.

Nice move Zippy - now instead of dealing with issue the Editor is going to "See, Zippy - the only real conservative - agrees with me. Case Closed." I TRULY do not see your point on this one - it sure looks like you are trying to earn brownie (or is that brown-nose) points. The Editor called YOU and every conservative hateful and you actually agree. Sorry Zippy I am going to have to call you on this one - please present the supporting evidence (unless you have truly switched sides and currently feel evidence irrelevant). Please give examples of the "personal level digs" you site (as in speak for yourself - I do not do "personal digs"). Zippy - I think you really blew this one - the majority of the people on the site were calling the Editor on her OVERUSE of the term "hateful" for everybody that disagrees her - the tide was turning and then you get the brilliant idea to agree with the editor - now you must live by your words!!!!

I go on vacation for a few days and come back to a hate-filled forum. Come on right wingers. Have you guys no joy in your lives that you hate so much?

So ZIPPY - you hated to but you agree with this statement. REALLY. Zippy the forum was filled with comments from you - so you agree that you are Hate-filled? You agree that all right winger (including you) have no joy in their lives.

I thought everybody, except maybe Zippy :-), would get a belly-laugh from this one:

Inside Cover has learned that first lady Hillary Clinton threatened to "crucify" Gennifer Flowers, according to 1992 eyewitness accounts, after Flowers went public with her claim of a 12-year affair with then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton.

The threat was made in a legal context, suggesting that Mrs. Clinton was once serious about suing Flowers for defaming her marriage.

Yeah, Hillary was going to sue Flowers until she realized Flowers with the one that was telling the truth and Hillary was the one lying - I guess it was then that Hillary decided to invent the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy for Mars (code named: "Plan 9 from outer space").

I guess it was then that Hillary decided to invent the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy FROM Mars (code named: "Plan 9 from outer space").

Message: Hillary, PLEEEEEEEASE run. NY can give your message the national forum it deserves. Starving college students everywhere need you! P.S. Please give me a job! I'm not kidding. Somebody find me. I'll be in St.Louis this fall.

Message: Where are the examples of "right-wing hate?" We have already seen the examples of silly, loony liberal hate. Can't the Clinton groupies better their masters (the Clinton's) and actually provide evidence?

Perhaps I was not clear enough. I was merely attempting to raise the level of the conversation here. Perhaps I'm being picky but the statement above, even in context, seems to be aimed at a person rather than that persons perceived shortcoming. Hate the Sin, not the Sinner. LVD, I have witnessed you lambaste a fool on this forum with "YOU FOOL" peppered throughout the post. You were of course correct in all of your assertions but your point would have been just as forceful had you refrained from (even minor and correct) personal insults. Even a Fool is loath to be called a Fool.

All I'm suggesting is that such behavior only gives Liberals more ammunition to back up the "hateful" charge. I don't know about you, but I was once a Full Blown Flaming Left Wing Liberal. Given time and natural curiosity one begins to discern the plainly visible evidence that Liberal Philosophy is badly flawed at it's core. Had you called me a fool twenty years ago you'd have been correct but you'd also have been rude and not in the least helpful in my conversion to the Right Side of the Argument. Had you patiently and politely pointed out the fallacy of my beliefs and arguments you may well have hastened my conversion.

I've often been accused of being overly polite but I hardly view that as a serious character flaw.

Zippy the forum was filled with comments from you - so you agree that you are Hate-filled? You agree that all right winger (including you) have no joy in their lives

Again, I was only agreeing that some of the posts were rather hostile (even if the hostility is justified it serves no purpose in this format). I can't speak for anyone else but I can tell you this: Since Bill Clinton took office I've slowly begun to actually hate this guy. I try to reserve such intense negative feelings for those that are truly despicable. Bill Clinton fits that description. He's not simply a Sheeple fooled by the Liberal Propaganda, he is a purposeful liar. He is far too intelligent to really believe that crap but he uses it (and the people that buy into it) to get, keep and abuse the Power he craves. And I must say, because I do care for my fellow human beings, the things he's done have reduced (slightly) my level of "joy". Every time I close my eyes lately I see Dead Yugoslavians Who Shouldn't Be and I feel, whether I should or not, partly responsible. Our Nation is being lead by Evil Men. I find no Joy in that. God I miss Ronald Reagan.

In short, the last thing I want is a Flame War with someone I agree with on 90 percent of the important issues. It's pointless. If we are ever going to turn this Nation around it will not be by fighting with our own peers. (See Congress and the GOP as we speak) We must present the evidence and keep hammering that evidence until we win over our adversaries with Logic and Proof. If there is really no chance of winning over the Minds of our Liberal counterparts what is the point of any discussion at all? If it comes to that it will be time to defend the Constitution with Bullets rather than Words. I, for one, do not look forward to that day.

Message: Dear First Lady Hillary, If you run for the Senate in New York, I�ll vote for you. If you run against Mayor Giuliani, I�ll find a way to vote twice or thrice for you. I believe you stand for the issues that your husband would like to stand for except he�s too - political. We know who you are and where you stand much more than we know about him. As you do, I believe in public education. I am a retired public school teacher. I believe the government must be involved in health care and you have done more to push that agenda than any other public servant. I wish we could find a way to institute a "single-payer plan." Go, Hillary. Stay the course. You have a following. Every politician has vicious enemies. Don�t let them get you down. I am for gays in the military, abortion on demand, public education sans special classes (I taught in public schools for 35 years and was a supervisor for 10); I am against any public moneys being used for parochial or private schools. I believe the federal government must continue to provide funds for the local school districts that abide by federal legislation. All American can pray as they please in their house of worship and their homes. Public schools must remain religiously neutral. I understand that the U.S. must not gloat about the magnificent role Albright, Cohen and Berger played in the war with Yugoslavia. I agree with the EUROS who are making plans to protect European interests sans U.S. support. I especially want to hear Serbs denounce Milosevic and promise to replace him with a democratic leader. Their silence on this matter deeply troubles me. China and Russia are countries we must treat with deference. The Clinton administration has done a fantastic job in moving forward the Irish question. Madeleine Albright and her team have done a fantastic job. Nothing would please me more than to hear that you and Ms. Albright are campaigning together for the next national election; I can�t think of a stronger team for the Democratic Party than you two. Incidentally, like you, I have always supported the President in his official duties. There really was and is a right wing conspiracy, but who�s phased? Fondly, Francis Dyer

Message: LVD, you know darned well that Zippy is now, and has always been, an HONORED GUEST on this forum. Your attempt to persuade Zippy that I was including him and ALL other members on the right as "hate-filled" is not only wrong, but evil. Yes, LVD -- "evil" spelled e-v-i-l. I referred to the "hate-filled" right wingers and you know exactly who they are, and you know exactly what I meant. Mean spirited, hate-filled people, whose only purpose on this forum is to spread hate.

The difference between Zippy's anti-Clinton statements and the hatemongers is that Zippy writes with respect, and states his case as honestly as he can. Zippy is IN PURSUIT OF THE TRUTH and I honor that. I think it's just about time you found spiritual fulfilment in seeking the truth and not twisting the truth to get points with your political cronies.

It's easy to tell who is on the spiritual path as seeker of the truth and those that are not by the fact that sometimes they have to cross the line and agree with the opposition, which means that they give a higher priority to the truth, wherever they find it, than allegiance to some party, position or cause.

If there were more people like Zippy we would have a chance to resolve our differences through peaceful means rather than war. It's those that cannot let go of their allegiance to a cause, programmed into their heads by propaganda or ignorance, that force polarization and ultimately make us go to war.

LVD, you are jealous of Zippy, and until you place a higher value on the truth than being a member of "the club" wherever and whatever that may happen to be, you will always envy and attack those that have found the true path to enlightment. With a strong desire and a little practice you have the intelligence and ability to get there too. There's always hope, but I'm not holding my breath.

Message: Hi! I am taking AP US History and my teacher gave me a hint to the question on my final. "How do Hilary Clinton, Margaret Mead, and plagarism tie in together?" If anyone has any idea of the answer, PLEASE e-mail me!?!?!? Thanks.

Message: Minglewood, you still don't get it.... Do you really think you can solve your problems by pointing out the faults in others?

"Sense of humor" was the message. You missed the message because you attacked the messenger. Go get yourself a sense of humor. Lighten up.

"The world will not look the other way when people are persecuted for their race or faith."
Bill Clinton 6/10/99

God Bless you Bill Clinton. Never again will we burn in the ovens of hatred. In time even your enemies will understand the legacy you have bequeathed to mankind. The prospect of living in a peaceful world, free of persecution, has become possible for the first time in our long history of man's inhumanity to man. We love you and thank you.

You need some lessons from right-wingers like Wee-Willey-Jeff, Zippy the Wonder Slug, Conservative Libertarian, and other honored right-wing members on this forum. Take this message you just wrote back to your personal "drawing board" and re-write it. Try a little harder. Rise above this mediocre $%#@&. We need more class on this forum and I'm going to do some heavy-duty editing until we get it.

Message: So all I have to do is post "Ken Starr is evil," or "Ken Starr is a loser," like your "honored" "Susan," then I will "rise" to your level. Again, I say WHAT A JOKE!! ROTHFL!

Message: Oh dear Lord, please forgive the "Father of Lies" and other members of his group, for believing that only they are connected to you, while we, the meek and the mild, are floundering around in ignorance blindly following our sinful leaders. The Father of Lies, while he knows who he is, knows not of which he speaks: for he is, as he says, the "Father of Lies."

Message: You are getting worse not better! You got a C- on your last message until you took it back to your personal drawing board and now you got an F- Whew! I asked for something with a little humor or a little class and this is what you bring back? You just don't get it:

Message: You are wrong! You lie! We do not repeat ourselves over and over again. You are just an intolerant, homophobic, women oppressing, dogmatic, right-wing hatemonger! Go back to that hatemonger free repubic forum!

Message: I don't understand. I can't get enough money to pay for school, unless I pay $2,000 for every $1,000 I borrow. I can't borrow enough $$$ from the government to cover the total cost. It's set up so that I'm discouraged in every way to go to school. So, while friends and I sit and might not beable to go to school, everyone has plenty of money to spend on everything else. Then they wonder why we are thugs. No one gives a shit !

To Mr. Deleted: The quote by W-W-J below is an excellent example of both class, humor and a touch of genius. I don't expect you to reach W-W-J's level - just a "C" grade will keep you on the board.

So it is what YOU do that matters, and what you tell us you want to be a "thug". Like you have no choice. Wrong! There are LOTS of other choices. If you want to stay on this forum you will have to come up with alternate choices and let's discuss them. If you can't we'll just have to delete you for being a "whiner" who wants others to make life easy for them. Life is not easy. It's your choice and your challenge.

E, when life deals you lemons -- make lemonade. Life deals everybody lemons, some more so than others, but everybody gets lemons at some stage of their lives. No exceptions to this rule. Trust me on this one. It's what you do with these lemons that will make or break you. Trust me on this one too.

So life has given you lemons instead of a college education. This is quite a challenge but many have overcome this predicament on their own without help from anyone.

So what are you going to do with the lemons, E? Think about it and let us know. We'd like to guide you to a better choice than "thug" Come back soon and good luck!

First, for Not@school: The only motivation to go to school is to better your life and the lives of those around you. That should be enough! Education is NOT a right! Education is a privelege that YOU will pay for or not receive. If you are actually so impressed with yourself that you think people like me (through my taxes) OWE YOU AN EDUCATION your out of your cotton picking little mind. Get up off your lazy ass and do like tens of thousands before you: Get a crappy job for a few years and PUT YOURSELF THROUGH SCHOOL or are you just not up to the challenge? (God, I hate whiners!)

Second, You people need to get up off this Free Republic bashing crap. I'm not a member but I "lurk" that site daily. Yes, there is some garbage posted by morons there but take a good look at the page you're on homeboy! With Free Speech you must learn to tolerate the morons in order to get to hear the geniuses. The vast majority of Freepers are intelligent, thoughtful, goodhearted people. I know, I've probably spent a hundred hours on that site over the past year.

It just pisses me off when someone who's heard 15 minutes of Rush Limbaugh tries to critique him. It just pisses me off when someone who's been to the Free Republic site three times tries to tell us all about those "evil Freepers". All I can say is It's Too Bad Ignorance Isn't Painful. Get a Freepin' Clue!

Message: "Hi! I am taking AP US History and my teacher gave me a hint to the question on my final. "How do Hilary Clinton, Margaret Mead, and plagarism tie in together?" If anyone has any idea of the answer, PLEASE e-mail me!?!?!? Thanks."

Yes, Margaret Mead wrote a book on how to defraud the options market. Hillary Clinton plagiarized much of Margaret's material to support the questionable $100,000 she made on pork bellies. Luciane Goldberg, in turn, plagiarized Hillary's information to sell her book to Kenn Starr who plagiarized information in Lucianne's book to spice up the Starr Report without paying Lucianne royalties. Kenny kept the whole $40 million for himself.

The story goes on and on, with lots of sex scenes until we find ourselves in the middle of the Kosovo War.... I don't want to bore you with anymore details except to fast forward you to the end of the story to let you know that: Bill Won. Repeat: BILL WON , and that's all that counts. Tell your teacher that Bill's legacy is all that matters for future generations the world over. The rest is just grist for the mill.

Message: The statement made by "Jon Tampico" (above) about the Free Republic Forum is NOT the real Jon Tampico. Obviously it was also not from one of those "Lying Liberals" we hear so much about from (guess which group) on this forum.

Can I get an AMEN! This is, IMHO, THE single most important lesson anyone can ever learn. While studying Eastern Religions I found that one of the most important concepts for Buddhists (esp. Zen) is that Everything we experience in this life is a lie. Our Minds are imperfect and therefor our perceptions are, at best, flawed. However, the Mind does not need to "observe" the Mind. It has direct knowledge about itself (and nothing else). The Mind is the only thing we have control over. The only thing! We can't control nature. We can't break God's true laws (Gravity, Speed of Light, etc.). We can't even force others to behave as we wish to any great extent (Listening Libs?). We cannot impose our will on the universe around us. All we can do is react to it. How you choose to react to the forces around you is what separates the wise from the foolish. Buddha taught that the source of all our suffering is our desires. When we no longer have desires we no longer suffer. Think about what you desire and how much of it is unnecessary.

Message: PRESIDENT CLINTON LOOKS UP FROM HIS DESK IN THE OVAL OFFICE TO SEE ONE OF HIS AIDES NERVOUSLY APPROACH HIM. "WHAT IS IT" EXCLAIMS THE PRESIDENT. "ITS THIS ABORTION BILL MR. PRESIDENT, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO ABOUT IT" THE AIDE REPLIES."JUST GO AHEAD AND PAY IT", RESPONDS THE PRESIDENT.

On July 8, 1947, witnesses claim a spaceship with five aliens aboard crashed on a sheep-and-cattle ranch outside Roswell, an incident they say has been covered up by the military. March 31, 1948, nine months after that day, Al Gore was born. That clears up a lot of things.

Message: Editor wrote, ""Sense of humor" was the message. You missed the message because you attacked the messenger. Go get yourself a sense of humor. Lighten up."

Well excuse me. I may be guilty of venting because I am frustrated with the political and social wellness of this country. And as we all know, frustration always turns into aggression.

Who cannot agree with me that this country is very sick right now?
Presidential infidelity.
Selling secrets to our enemies.
Social programs that will eventually control every aspect of our lives. An illegal and immoral war.
A Liberal Administration that lies to us every day, and we believe them.
A media empire that lies to us every day, and we believe them.
An incredible tax burden.
Children killing children.
Boy, now I am really getting depressed.

A person who is truly concerned about these problems has nowhere to turn, no sign of true leadership, no hope for resolution. And, thus the source of frustration.

No politician, Democrat or Republican, will do the right thing because it would threaten their survival, their livelihood, their very existence. Can you imagine Dianne Feinstein or Barney Frank in the private sector?

Only the people can solve these problems. Remember the Boston Tea Party ? We need another one of those. But how can a majority be formed when the two sides are so far apart. The Liberals think the government will shape the world and solve the problems. I know this is a joke (here is some sense of humor). Well, I have to go back to work now. I have to complete a form for the FCC and if I don't, they will arrest me and fine me.

Message: Thank you for your AMEN. Despite our differences our underlying philosophy is identical. Happy to have you on the forum. Editor.

Only the people can solve these problems. Remember the Boston Tea Party ? We need another one of those.

Remember the American Revolution? If the People in this country don't wake up and educate themselves (and their children) as to the dangers of our Imperial Federal Government we'll need another one of those. (Better get your Assault Rifle now. It'll be to late by the time you need it.)

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. (AP) - Movie director Oliver Stone was arrested for investigation of driving under the influence and possession of hashish, police said.

The Oscar-winning director was released from custody Thursday morning after posting $12,500 bail, Gilmond said.

The director, who also has a number of producing and writing credits to his name, won Academy Awards for ``Platoon'' and ``Born on the Fourth of July.'' His directorial credits include ``U Turn,'' ``Heaven & Earth,'' ``JFK'' and ``Wall Street,'' among others.

This explains a great deal about Oliver Stoned's idiotic social/political views expressed in his movies. Such talent, wasted!

Message: Pat Robertson Lost again hmmm. Christian Coalition is denied IRS TAX-Exempt Status. The CCC (Christian Coalition founded after Pat Robertson lost his bid to become the President of the United States. Then he went to the churches for their financial support to help him in his crusade against the blacks and gays. some American he is.

Message: I was looking forward to the next election now that I haven't been a democrat since bill clinton ran for president. I figured if he would lie to Hilary he would lie to me. I thought after the mess he cause and my grandchildren learning about oral sex that finally he was out of office and we would never hear the name clinton again. Just like a bad penny it keeps coming back. You are not a good example for our children and if you call your marriage and example for young women to bow at the knees of a man like this I hope my daughters and granddaughters never marry and become a slave to someone like hime. I am sure glad I don't live in new york. I think your and bill's use of the bible and church on sunday is hyprocrisy. I hope you loose. The bible does however state that the yellow race will control the world and evil will prevail and bill clinton has done everything he can to insure china and the east's power in the u.s. by the use of their funds in our elections. I will always vote republican from now on.

Note: Lack of Moniker indicates that a gutless, biased attack will likely follow.

Pat Robertson Lost again hmmm. Christian Coalition is denied IRS TAX-Exempt Status. The CCC (Christian Coalition founded after Pat Robertson lost his bid to become the President of the United States. The Christian Coalition would be abbreviated CC unless the author meant the "C of CC". Also note the lack of a closing parenthesis and capitalization of the first word in the last sentence. These errors indicate a lack of attention to detail (among other things) and bring the entire post under suspicion. Then he went to the churches for their financial support to help him in his crusade against the blacks and gays. some American he is. "his crusade against the blacks and gays" is a baseless attack with no evidence or even made up examples of actions that would qualify him for such an attack. Provide proof of your accusations or shut the *@$#! up.

I was rather surprised to hear that you are a life-long Yankees fan. In the thirty five years I've been going to "The House that Ruth Built" I've never seen you at a game. Hmm, in your opinion who is the better center fielder, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle or Bernie Williams?

Should the Knicks win tonight can I expect to see you and Spike Lee court side for the championship?

Message: Finally we have found agreement on several points you have made. If we could sincerely work together to create a new world instead of polarizing ourselves by attacking the messengers from the opposition we would be headed in the right direction.

Technology, the Internet, and the information age have made it possible for us to really govern ourselves. As Zippy says: "keep our country safe from our leaders" There will come a time when we are mature enough to govern ourselves and have a true democracy, but we still have a lot of work to do on ourselves before that happens. One of the many changes we have to work on is to end polarization. For instance, when I write in this forum as the "editor" I get attacked by certain people, but when I write under some creative moniker I get supported by the same people who usually attack me!

Message: Zippy, why are you for ordinary people using assult rifles but against war? This is a contradiction. Please explain.

when I write in this forum as the "editor" I get attacked by certain people, but when I write under some creative moniker I get supported by the same people who usually attack me!

Do you feel the way you call everybody "hate-filled" that disagrees with you - helps to "end polarization"?

Do you consider the way you constantly spew the word "evil" - a way to "end polarization".

Do you feel the way you say all "right-wings" lack joy in their lives - is a way to end "polarization"

The way you say Last Visible Dog is hate-filled and wrong when a point is make yet when Zippy says the same thing you agree and say he is "upstanding - is that your "special" way of ending polarization.

When you say over and over and over (convicted felon (convicted because of Starr)) Susan McDougal is the big WINNER (wooopie!) and Ken Starr (someone who hasn't never been accused of breaking ANY law) is EVIL-EVIL-EVIL and you compare him to HITLER - is this your way of ending "polarization"?

When you say Clinton is a BIG WINNER after he ordered the actions that killed hundreds of civilians - is that your way of ending polarization?

Message: if hillary was interested in running for office in japan she would say she always loved sushi. i wonder how many yankee or knick games this big fan has ever been to or even watched on television.

Message: I have come to the conclusion that America, due to the influence of right wing extremist, is suffering from SBJDS or Sans-Blow-Job-Depression-Syndrome. Former Surgeons General C. Everett Koop and what-her-name concur. Therefor, as a part of my healthcare legislation for the twenty-first century, I am proposing health care initiatives that will increase blow jobs in this country two hundred percent over the next five years.

Message: A few years ago I could count on any military action of mercy of mine to last only a week or two and I was assured of getting a few world class hummers while ordering death and destruction by the worlds mightest military. What's more, all this would be good for a 5 to 20% jump in the polls.

Now I've used up most of the missiles, the third world is fighting back, these military actions just don't have that public support boon of yore, and who can get serviced in the oval office anymore with all the FOH (Friends of Hillary) lurking in the White House.

Zippy, why are you for ordinary people using assult rifles but against war? This is a contradiction. Please explain.

Firstly, let's get my quote:
"(Better get your Assault Rifle now. It'll be to late by the time you need it.)"

This is my way of saying that once the Federal Government manages to disarm the People and begins to really oppress us (the pattern ALWAYS demonstrated throughout History) it will be much harder to obtain the necessary weaponry to mount the violent overthrow of our corrupt leaders and restore our Constitution. People should never kill anyone except in direct defense of Life and Liberty and (possibly) the Death Penalty for egregious offences against society.

I am not against War. I am against unnecessary War. I would go to War in a heartbeat to defend my country against a direct threat (invasion, etc.) I would also kill in self-defense or in defense of other innocents (The old "A guy with a shotgun walks into the Convenience Store and starts to threaten the cashier" story.)

Also, have you ever fired a fully automatic weapon? I may be a Vegetarian and I may put spiders outside rather than squash them but I gotta tell you, there ain't nothin' like spraying the side of an old barn with an AK-47 on full auto! Man, what a rush! Just because Evil can be done with an object, it doesn't make the object or the possessor Evil!

And besides, as I've said before, the Power belongs in the hands of the common man NOT organizations, NOT Governments. Just in case you haven't seen this:

One day God and Satan were walking along a path discussing things and God noticed a shiny object on the path. He bent down to pick it up and immediately recognized it. "Ah, it's some Truth!" said God. Satan immediately grabbed the object and said, "Here, let me organize that for you!"

Message: Joe, try to be a little more politically correct. Falwell is not a PIG....he is a Porcine-American.

Victory? On the eve of the Kosovo war, the president of the United States declares the objective: "To protect thousands of innocent people in Kosovo from a mounting military offensive." This would be done in one of two ways. We would deter Serbia from "ethnically cleansing" Kosovo or, failing that, we would physically -- militarily -- destroy Serbia's ability to do so.

By Clinton's own standard, the war was lost -- irretrievably, catastrophically lost -- in the first week. NATO launched a campaign at once anemic and tentative, a campaign of bombing empty buildings. Slobodan Milosevic responded with the most massive ethnic cleansing in Europe since World War II.

Now 11 weeks and a million refugees later, there is an agreement that permits a return to the status quo ante. Well, not quite: It will be a partial and imperfect return, given that many Kosovars are dead and many will not want to return. Moreover, what they are returning to is not Kosovo, but a wasteland that was Kosovo.

It did not have to be this way. After all, Milosevic finally agreed to a partial undoing of his ethnic cleansing only when NATO attacks on his civilian infrastructure became intolerable. Why, then, did we not turn out the lights in Belgrade on Day One? Two weeks into the war, I wrote, noting the obvious, that "the only possible way out of this war short of abject defeat" was an air campaign of "seriousness" -- hitting "power plants, fuel depots, bridges," the kind of war that actually kills combatants and inevitably civilians but that so debilitates the enemy nation as to bring it to a halt -- and to the negotiating table.

Historians will puzzle over why Clinton and Blair and Schroeder and the rest did not do this until after Kosovo had been wiped nearly clean of Albanians. But it is no puzzle: Clinton thought that military minimalism -- so congenial to the ex- and current pacifists in his coalition -- was a win-win proposition for him.

Either Milosevic would fold in the face of a demonstration war or, if he did not, Clinton could do exactly what he had done after his little pre-impeachment three-day war on Iraq: take to TV, offer a gaudy list of targets hit, declare victory and go home.

What he had not counted on was Milosevic's public exposure of such a fraud. In Iraq, Clinton could pinprick and declare victory because there were no cameras to record his failure -- nuclear and chemical weapons are being developed by Saddam unmolested, but for now unseen. In Kosovo, on the other hand, a million refugees parade before the cameras of the world. Not even Clinton could spin his way out of that defeat by calling it victory.

So the air war went on, finally got serious, and now we have something that is being called victory. But the supposed instrument of Serb surrender, the U.N. Security Council resolution codifying the cease-fire conditions, is riddled with ambiguities.

The central point throughout the conflict has always been who will run Kosovo after Serb forces leave. The governing Security Council resolution authorizes an international security presence with "substantial" NATO participation. The command structure is not spelled out, and the Russians insist that their troops will not be under NATO command. If they are not, will they have their own occupation zone that will effectively partition Kosovo?

More muddle: Serbia is allowed a presence at the re-entry points for the refugees. Will that scare away the refugees? We don't know. And who is going to "demilitarize" the Kosovo Liberation Army?

I am not objecting to these compromises -- they are the necessary accommodations to end an extraordinarily ill-conceived war. What I do object to is spinning it into a triumph. If this is such a triumph, does anyone imagine that we will ever repeat such an adventure?

And the final irony: Even if all the ambiguities are answered in NATO's favor, even if the Yugoslavs comply with every detail of the military agreement signed with NATO on Wednesday, what are we left with? The prize for victory: The United States and its allies are permitted to interpose their soldiers between mortal enemies in a continuing Balkan guerrilla war. For years.

Message: I live in New York and am happy to see you active in any capacity here, however, would much rather see you running for President. You had such good ideas on health reform, it is unfortunate that things did not go forward. Good Luck and we will be shouting for victory! Jeanne Hawkins ej2@juno.com

Message: Welcome to New York, if you want to enjoy a boat ride on a beautiful lake, come see us.

U.S. Air Force � Proved air power could win wars
The Clinton team � Risky strategy ultimately prevailed.
The KLA � Poised to fill the power vacuum
U.S. defense contractors � Orders rolling in
Javier Solana � EU awards him a new job
Tony Blair � NATO's leading hawk slays critics
Joschka Fischer � Tamed pacifists and showed his Green Party ready for government
China � Turns U.S. blunder into propaganda bonanza
Marshal Tito � Looking better every day
Hillary Clinton - Improved chances of winning in New York.(added)

Message: In yet another narrow escape from what appeared to be certain disaster, Clinton can reasonably declare a military victory. And once again, his Houdini act left many of his Republican rivals pulling out their hair, having been proven either wrong (John McCain, Pat Buchanan) or down right unhappy that NATO prevailed (James Inhofe, Pat Robertson).

Message: When the Democrats are in trouble they circle the wagons, but when the Republicans are in trouble (as they are now) they devour their own.

Message: Yeah! The Republicans are so frustrated they are devouring their own, and then come on to this forum and try to devour us. Like a snake eating itself. I used to think it was something about us that caused such aggression but now I see they are doing it to themselves, even worse.

What happened to the Grand Olde Party I used to know years ago, and (cringe)of which I was once a member? I remember a time (during the sixties) when it was the Democrats that had irreconcilable differences between its warring factions and the GOP that held together.

When and why did this change? Was it when Bill Clinton came into power and the radical right wing of GOP became so obsessed with getting our president that they ignored what was in the best interests of the people?

Personally I think Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition had a lot to do with the disintegration of the present Republican Party. I wish the centrist Republicans would get rid of this faction and have a total facelift. Of course they would lose seats in Congress and become the minority party, but at least they would appear responsible and sane and not come across as frustrated, gun-toting, Clinton-hating losers.

Message: What is the meaning of the "devouring their own" cliche'. Are republicans aborting their own children? Do they deny their beliefs and principles to achieve political ends? Is it because Republicans can have independent thinkers that you say they are "devouring their own?" Could you please give an example of "devouring their own."

Message: You know, for all the hype around Hillary's senatorial campaign that isn't...some things leap out at me. The first thing I've noticed is that Hillary has delayed actually announcing her intentions for as long as she can. There will be no formal declaration from her about running for the senate seat in NY until the very last possible moment. That way she gets all the press with none of the bothersome questions. She can dismiss uncomfortable questions with a coy wave and nod and still come off as possible senate material. Smart, considering the skeletons she's got in her closet. If I was as slimy as she is I'd take the same tack. The other thing is the selective blindness of the press coverage of 'saint hillary'. What I mean by that is this: Hillary has absolutely no interest in the people of the city and state of New York. She sees them as a means to an end, and nothing more. Yet this isn't apparent in any of the press coverage she gets. Another thing that's very interesting, is the fact that while Hillary has done some political work, and even done some policy issues (both in arkansas and in Washington D.C.) no mention is made of the fact that whatever she was involve in eventually got flushed down the toilet or was such a bad policy decision that it hurt the taxpayers more than it helped them. As an example I point out the clintonista health plan (of which we are led to believe that Hillary did all on her own...well, up until the point that it was clear that it wouldn't pass - then it became all someone elses fault) and the education system in arkansas, which is ranked in the bottom ten of state education systems in the 50 states. Hillary also had a prominant role in it's devlopment and implementation - and led to it's rapid decline that it is only now starting to climb out of. Yet none of these things is mentioned. Yet. Anyone else out there notice these things?

Message: Pardon me PETA member, but get with the program. My preference (gerbils, ?) is not something I choose out of my own free will, but just who I am. I am a member of a MORE victimized group than yours. Yes, we need to stay together no matter what to support our Hillary and defeat those intolerant extremist freaks, especially those PIGS like Pat Roboterson and Jerry Pigwell. We need more love and tolerance in this world and Hillary the tolerant one will lead the way. Go Girl! Go go go go!

Message: AT last some people are waking up and thinking of the dangers or the CCC founded by Mr Pat Robertson He is an egotist(Pat Robertson) who thinks he is God. and his henchmen, Jerry Foulmouth Falwell, Rush Limbaugh Tom Delay,Bob Barr, Livingston, Strom Thurmond and the rest of the KKK . This group is out to get all Good Republicans and Democrats out of the Government so that they can seize powerand control our country. They think that with their buzz words Family values and other issues will disunite us and they will govern us as they see fit. Well they haven't fooled all of us yet. Wake up everyone and kick these Rebooblicans out in the year 2000, 2002 2004 and 2006. They have lots of money from foundations like the Heritage foundation. And their goal is destroy Social Security and Medicare. The CCC is for states rights They are rascists and filled with hate toward ethnic groups. Shame on them.

Message: The Republicans in the US House used every trick in the book to get Clinton evenas far back as 5 -6 Years ago they started; When I first heard That ex tub of Lard Russ Limbaugh Attack my duly elected President. Boo on the Conservative Republicans they make me sick. They are bullies. Hypocrites, and should all resign. In 2000 we will start to kick out these fakirs s Contract for American. phooey!! They want to take control of our Government. Vote vote vote and kick these bums out. I still say make them watch the movie Elmer Gantry at least 100 times a year for the next 6 years. Enough of this hypocricy of twisting facts for their own purposes. Power!!!

Message: I think a lot of you people placing your messages on this site are nuts. I think Hillary is a great person, what she stands for is great. She will win BIG in New York and she deserves it!

Message: No need to get all Falwell on me. My gerbils are fine and healthy animals. I resent the idea that you think I mistreat them. Just to show you what an honorable person I am, I will let you inspect my gerbils yourself. Meet me outside the visitor information at Muir Woods this Wednesday at noon and I will let you inspect my gerbils. In honor of the Hillary forum, I will be dressed like the Editor with a big "Hillary for President" button on my purse. I am about 6' 2" and 240 pounds, you won't miss me. Lets get together and be friends.

Message: You know, it's interesting. The conservatives who post thier views here are for the most part, intelligent, articulate, polite, and back thier statements up with references to established facts. They don't resort to name calling or personal attacks and honestly believe in what they say. The liberals here are rude, arrogant, when thier arguments fail they resort to personal attacks on those who point out thier flawed reasoning and are generally unpleasant. I most esp liked the blanket statements that all conservatives are 'bullies and hypocrites'. Hmm...the problem with that statement is that it's a generalzation and elitist in the extreme. It shows that the one who made it, hasn't bothered to listen to what being a conservative is all about, and has just decided to hate everyone different than them. Oddly enough, that is exactly the type of behavior they claim to hate in a conservative. When you get right down to it, our Founding Fathers realized that we weren't all going to agree, so they made certain that free and open debate (read:partisanship) was a part of the political process in America. That's what is supposed to happen. However, when a conservative stands on his/her principals they are often ignored (at best) or attacked (the usual response) for daring to make a value judgement. I'd like to see Hillary get what she deserves. However, I don't think she's going to get that cell in Arkansas any more than that senate seat in NY. That's just the way the ball bounces sometimes. I also think it's interesting that the lady that's most responsible for all the mud slinging we see at the national politics level is not being held to account for all of her actions. I'm not even going to touch the discussion on her use of government resources to compile fundraising data/distribution data....

BUGS

That's right, Bugs. And they want to kill minorities, starve children, and enslave women! We should take all their rights away! Take away their right to vote, their personal property (and give it to the people they victimized), and put them in camps, where they can be reeducated and learn proper values!

Message: I'm also somewhat at a loss as to understanding why liberals hate Rush Limbaugh as much as they seem to. There are many posts on this forum (and literally thousands scattered across the Internet) saying that Rush is an evil hate monger who's only pandering to slack-jawed red-necked conservatives. Well, that's the polite and printable version of what many negative comments about Rush Limbaugh are. So let's look at his show. What does Rush do that is so annoying to liberals? He obviously loves his job. He makes a decent living at it. He offers an alternative viewpoint to what comes out of the white house (and 'mainstream' press rooms). And quite alot of people agree with him. Why does that bother so many liberals? Since many liberals say they want 'diversity' and 'multi-culturalism' why do you not tolerate Rush? His ideas (and those of many conservatives) are a vaild cultural point of view, after all. Any sort of 'multi-cultural' society has to accept conservative values as well as liberal values, or else it's nothing more than a sham. Now all we have to do is define what, exactly, 'liberal values' are and we've got this ball rolling.....

Message: Well, looky here, fella'! WE as a multicultural society MUST embrace all the world's loving diversity EXCEPT the EVIL incarnate that is RUSH LIMBAUGH and Christianity!

African cultures forcing female circumcision -- fine
Middle-easten cultures that promotes killing daughters that disobey their fathers -- fine
China, a cultures that force women to have abortions for all but one child -- Greeaaatt!
Other Asian cultures that view women as chattel -- fine

But...to accept an evil Christian view that promotes rights for unborn children, promotes stay-at-home mothers, and insists that all family structures are NOT equally valuable. Well! THAT IS TOO MUCH TO ASK!

Get real! We are at the cusp of the 21st century. Time for you dinasaurs to leave your Christian values behind.

Message: So Kenny is going to "blister" Hillary. Well, Kenny, let me remind you, one more time, what Santayana said: "Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

OK, Kenny, you don't get it do you? Let me spell it out: remember what happened when you tried to get Clinton -- every time you tried to take a stab at him his ratings went up? Huh? Surely you remember that? After the GOP decided to release your infamous x-rated Starr Report on the Internet, instead of Clinton going down his ratings hit their highest ever!

Do you get a glimpse of what I am telling you, Kenny? No... you are toooooo obsessed with getting the Clintons to see the future. Well here it is: the more you try to hit Hillary the more the Democrats will circle the wagons around her and the higher her ratings will go. Giuliani hasn't got a snowball's hope in hell now that you are forcing the Democrats to circle the wagons.

Do you know how many Democrats there are in New York Kenny? Lots... and they are all going to circle the wagons around her. Democrats around the country will move to protect her, where they would not have before, because they are not involved in New York politics --- but there is a HUGE constituency in this country who will mobilize against you, Kenny dearest, and see to it that you lose, again, BIG TIME!!!

So go ahead, Kenny, hit us with your best shot! Hillary's got her baseball cap on and she's going to hit that ball right out of the ballpark. We're gonna love every minute of it!

Message: We don't have a problem with Christianity when it describes people who follow the Way of Jesus, but we do have a problem with Christian hypocrites who are the antithesis of WWJD. We are referring to those con-artists posing as "Christians" who fool people into following them so they can gain money and political power. These people are the worst of hypocrites and should burn in hell.

Message: Intolerence, evil, and hate! That's what you Christians stand for! I hope they all die!

You know, some people had a problem way-back-when-before-the-impeachment when I would "thump" my Bible on the steps of the church, then go get serviced by Monica a few hours later!

WWJD? What Would Jesus Do? Who knows, but I don't think Jesus has a problem with blow jobs. Blow jobs aren't even sex. I reseached it in the Bible and it says that blow jobs are okay.

Message: Another mis-conception about hillary is that the democrats will jump to her defense because they love her so much. Um, I almost hate to break it to you guys, but this is wrong. Here's why: Politics today has become less about who's ideas are better for the country and more about 'let's get that dirty conservative/liberal sob for what he/she did to [insert imagined crime here]'. So embracing Hillaryism isn't because democrats agree with her policies (which haven't been mentioned as yet) it's because a vote for hillary is a vote that dosen't go to some republican. This is a sad but true fact of modern day politics.

Another thing worth mentioning is that very few people actually care about voting these days. It's a fact that the clinton's have been banking on for the past six years....Bill owes his election (and re-election) to ross perot and poor voter turn out. In fact, during re-election campaigns all over the U.S. the DNC has told it's canidates that it's ok to distance themselves from Bill and Hillary if they think it'll get them elected in thier respective districts. So even the DNC knows that if people out there start to realize what a clintonian democracy (I use the term loosely) is like they'll rebel and go vote independant or republican.

I'd hit Hillary hard on her lack of experience in office (subtle references to her phenominal stock market sucess are encouraged here), dredge up her speeches and public comments from the past 20 years or so and just let people know what she stands for....

The gist of the Blistering Hillary post seemed to indicate that high approval ratings are the only thing that counts. Anyone buying into that line of thinking is either very young or very shallow. Bill Clinton was Impeached and his lies and misdeeds exposed for all the world to see. The fact that his ratings went up is not a reflection on Bill Clinton but rather the ignorant, lazy, immoral, shallow people who took the polls. That is the real tragedy.

Message: A comment about polls: "Numbers, when tortured long enough, eventually confess." Also, it's possible to slant the wording of a poll question to support whatever action you want. In addition, by playing with the demographics it's possible to adjust poll results even further. The overall effect is that polls can be skewed to say just about anything you want 'em to say. Think about it - a poll is really trying to assign a numerical value to human thought. Since people change thier minds based on information fed to them...well - garbage in, garbage out seems the phrase to apply here.

Message: "Another thing that I find mildly disturbing is the liberal hatred of God."

Here we go again -- another member of the "righteous-right" who wants you to believe that only his side is connected to God, while us poor demented Liberals are floundering around in ignorance blindly following our sinful pagan leaders.

Where do you learn this stuff Fnord? Who programs your head and all the other "righteous" heads that have come into this forum accusing Liberals of hating God? Do you all come out of the same training school or something? Is this what they preach to you in your churches? WWJD? Would Jesus come into this forum and write the %$#@&% you just wrote?

are programmed by their charlatan preachers to believe that they are the only If you were truly connected to the Creator you would know that we are ALL connected, but only the enlightened know that. The self-righteous fools who are under the illusion that they are the only ones who are connected know not of what they speak. Go back to your leaders that taught you this divisive crap and kick their asses.

Simple Question: Would God Condemn or Condone the murder of an innocent child in the womb?

To accuse God of Condoning such an abomination shows utter and total contempt for Him. God creates Life and thus retains the right to end it. So long as Liberals promote the "right" to murder innocent children they will be regarded as God Haters by those that understand the Sacred Nature of Life.

I'd trade the end of the Death Penalty for the end of Abortion any day. How about you?

Message: The Clinton's and company are very vocal about overseas labor isues. My son just a paycheck of $0.55/hour. Out of this they deducted Social Socurity taxes. If the monthly earnings go over $65 they will deduct $0.50/0n the dollar from his SSI benefits. Hillary stands in photo-ops with the Kosovo refugees. Has she ever stood in a dishroom here in the US with a person making so little? NO. They get the dirtiest jobs at no pay and it is sanctioned by the government, business and acadamia. What thgen H--- is going on in this country!!!

Message: "While studying Eastern Religions I found that one of the most important concepts for Buddhists (esp. Zen) is that Everything we experience in this life is a lie. Our Minds are imperfect and therefore our perceptions are, at best, flawed.

QUESTION: If this is your basic philosophy why are you so adamant that we need to assemble a huge cache of ammunition including assault rifles to "violently overthrow" fellow Americans? We are not Serbs and Albanians. If some warring faction breaks out in this country we have the police, national guard and the military to take care of it. We live in a civilized society. We are not going to take up arms against each other. Some right wing group programmed that into your head. Your mind was not born with that concept - somebody put it there. Have you considered the possibility that your mind is "flawed" as you have said (above).

"We cannot impose our will on the universe around us. All we can do is react to it. How you choose to react to the forces around you is what separates the wise from the foolish. Think about what you desire and how much of it is unnecessary."

Well, think about it Zippy... Is it really necessary to believe that one day your best friends, neighbors, teachers and otherwise decent Americans are going to take up arms against you and you need to have uncontrolled access to assult rifles and other weapons of destruction to "violently overthrow" them?

I choose not to put that concept in my head. And in doing so I never have to think of how to kill a person. When you buy a gun you are planning to kill. I will not plan to kill. We have the police and military for that so I don't have to. If my environment becomes so dangerous that I need to own a gun I will move, even if it means moving to another country, w

Message: Vice President Al Gore, who has vowed to 'take God back' from the Religious Right is claiming that religion is big part of his everyday life. Gore told our BNN Campaign 2000 correspondent, "Religion has been at the center of my life ever since I was a kid. I remember reading the entire Bible at least six or seven times before I graduated from High School. I found the stories in the Bible to be both enlightening and inspirational. One of my favorites was the one about how Mohammed found some golden tablets in the forest and translated them into the Watchtower Magazine. Another story that meant a lot to me was the one where Moses was walking on the water and was swallowed by a big fish. But my all time favorite Bible story is found in the Gospel of Hezakiah. It's the story of how Buddha was crucified for his sins. That one gets me every time I read it."

Message: Time Magazine doesnt want Jesus Christ as one of the most important persons of the Twentieth Century. but they did put Hitler on their List. Now there is a topic for discussion. Dynomite!

Message: Yeh pal, Baloney, Hypocricy and how about Bob Barr and Livingston( this guy stole another man's wife) Please will the first sinner throw the first stone. really.

Message: As an American I like you but when you pick on my Duly elected President. I get upset because you sound like Rush Limbaugh and he is still like Goebbels, telling half truths and darn out lies about Pres. clinton. Bill Clinton our President accidently exposed these hypocrites the Right Wingers for what they trully afe power seeking people. Our forefathers said separation of Government from Religioous groups . The government should not favor one religious group over another. and the same goes for Religious groups should not unite politcally and squash a political group and take over. But no the CCC is doing this but now they are being exposed. Too bad. They had it coming. Doing this and that for their own motives and not doing good for of all the people. Bad, wicked immoral the CCC is. Ten thousand times worse than what Pres. Clinton did. But no you come on here and talk and speak a lot of garbage. But you know what. This is a free countyry. Now we got this thing called the voters vote every two years and quess what we are going to do is kick the Rebooblicans the heck out and hope the The Republican party gets rid of you Pat Robertson followers and get some better people to represent their constiuents.

...why are you so adamant that we need to assemble a huge cache of ammunition including assault rifles to "violently overthrow" fellow Americans?

I'll type slowly so you get it this time. At no point did I indicate that we might have to defend ourselves from ourselves. However we might have to defend ourselves from our Government.

If some warring faction breaks out in this country we have the police, national guard and the military to take care of it.

These are precicely the groups that would be used to put down a revolution against a Corruupt, Imperial Government. Can you possibly be this utterly unaware of History? Have you never studied Pre-War Germany? I suggest you stop thinking nice thoughts and study the anatomy of a Government Decaying into Tyrany. Germany had Hitler, we got the Clinton's.

By this logic we should disband the Armed Forces immediately! Do you know why a pump action shotgun is by far the best weapon with which to protect your home? The noise it makes when you rack a shell into the chamber generally sends all but the most insane criminals running. I pray to God I never have to pull the trigger on a fellow human being but I will not be a willing victim either. If you want to live in a fantasy land where everyone (but Republicans) can be trusted to be nice and Governments never fall into the hands of Evil People I wish you luck. I, however, will be fighting for your freedom as well as my own.

This so well illustrates one of the more common traits of Liberal Thought that just makes me nuts. Weakness is Good, Strength is Bad. Don't be prepared, hope things work out. Trust those with power to be benevolent (even though you know they actively seek power over you. Ever wonder why?) No wonder this planet is a mess.

If my environment becomes so dangerous that I need to own a gun I will move, even if it means moving to another country

And there we have it folks; "Liberal" would rather leave America than make a stand when times get tough. "Liberal" actually believes there is a better place on this Earth in which to live. I won't even comment any further. I don't think I could do so without becoming rude...

Message: This may look like I am defending Zippy (I don't have to).
Liberal, I have a question for you. Did you even think about what Zippy was saying? You sound like you have no clue about what YOU are talking about. You basically have no grasp of history, nor concepts that go out of the bounds of your "reality". The right wing hasn't brainwashed the idea of taking up arms against one's neighbor into our heads. History shows time and time again that when the people are utterly defenseless against any form of government, that government MUST become corrupt. It is human nature. What Mr. Slug is saying is that we need to have access to quality personal defense. For this reason, and NO other, our forefathers gave us the right to bare arms.

What keeps you so blind to this fact? Is it that you were "brainwashed" in school? I realize that our public school system is so under budget that they don't teach the constitution effectively. I guess you can use that as an excuse.

As for Zippy's mind. He said he takes the possibility of it being flawed, that was the point....DUH!!!!

I find it hard to believe you have ever even picked up a Bible, let alone read one. For one, the Bible says that you cannot talk with God unless he wants you to. I believe by my reading, that you NEED Jesus to do this. I can support my beliefs by the book also. Psalms 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. Not much "my view" there, pretty cut and dry....John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. {have hid: or, have made him hide} Proverbs 28:9 ¶ He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. 1 Peter 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.
Basically without the spirit you are talking to yourself......

Of course, if you don't believe the Bible is the truth, then it's all moot. Before you are so quick to criticize, maybe you should find out what you are criticizing. I would bet you will find yourself down on your knees begging for Jesus to save you, I know I did.

Message: Fudd, the self-righteous, insulting #$%^*(_&^ you have written above is so typical of of the religious right it makes me want to vomit. You have indeed been programmed by your Pharisee preachers. You need to get down on your knees a lot more than you have already because you have no sense of decency. You follow the letter, not the spirit of religion. The religious right read their bibles only insofar as it serves their purpose as a weapon to pretentiously attempt to hit others with their so-called knowledge. You people always miss the main point, which is WWJD. That's all you have to think about. Keep your eye on the ball.

Ask yourself,Fudd, when next you are down on your self-righteous knees. Would Jesus have written the vile $%&#@#$ in your message above? If the answer is "no" then you will understand for yourself that you have a very long way to go before you can call yourself a Christian.

Now that's just bullshit. you accuse Fudd of writing "self-righteous, insulting #$%^*(_&^" by writing self-righteous, insulting #$%^*(_&^

I challenge you, no, I DARE you to take the time to point out exactly what you find insulting and explain why. If this is beyond your abilities and you have nothing more to contribute than direct insults and smears against large portions of this Great Nation's people then shut the fuck up.

By the way, in case you don't know, I'm Buddhist not Christian. So I don't defend Fudd because he and I share some particular point of view but then I'm secure enough in my beliefs to see his concern for my soul as just that; concern for my soul. He, and many others, believe in their hearts that they are trying to save our souls from eternal damnation. Are you so shallow that you've missed that point all together?

I often take half an hour or more to edit and re-edit my posts until they get the message across as well as possible. I take pride in expressing my points of view. I change them when confronted with hard evidence that I'm wrong. When it comes to purely philosophical points I believe in "Live and Let Live". If you can't or won't take the time and effort to make your point without all the insulting nonsense then why the Hell should anyone take you seriously? Get with it already.

Message: Once again, it's interesting to note that mr. pharasee fudd has demonstrated what modern liberalism is all about. He's pretty typical - he starts by saying he hates christians because they're narrow-minded, then follows up by doing exactly what he says he hates in others. Then of course, he degenerates into personal attacks. Mr. pharasee, if you know anything at all about christians, persecuting them will not discourage them. In fact, quite the opposite. 'Blessed are they who suffer in my name.' I believe was the saying, but it's been a while so you'd have to double check me on chapter and verse... Here again we also see the apparent hatred of God in the modern liberal. As yet, I can see no reason for this hatred. No reasonable explanation for it has been put forward by any self-proclaimed liberal here or anywhere else. It's almost a deep seated fear more than a hatred. Almost as if they know they're wrong but won't admit it. So rather than examine thier beliefs they try to remove anything that might make them seem wrong.

Another theory might be that it is just a another facet of the "it's not my fault so I can't be held responsible" philosophy that excuses all kinds of idiotic behavior. "I couldn't help getting pregnant so it's OK to kill the kid", "Alcoholism is a disease so I can't help it if I drink, I'm disabled", "It was just lies about sex so it's OK to break the law", "Dad kicked my ass all the time when I was young so I can't help it that I shot that guy", and on and on...

Message: I found him out. Zippy is really klugeboy. Klugeboy is Zippy is Hitler and theyare all nazis. boo on them and there evil rebooblican allies.

Message: Rush Limbaugh really is still like Goebbels because he tells half truths and darn out lies about my duly elected president. just listen to him and you can tell hes a liar hypocrite right wing nazi. All you rebboblicans speak a lot of hooey and garbage But you know what. we are going to kick the Rebooblicans the heck out of washington and get some better people like the Cliontons in to represent their constiuents.

Message: Hmm...so, let me see here bugs, since you can't support you're arguments with facts, you denigrate Rush Limbaugh and then post your response several times. You know, the nice thing about the internet is that it's easy to see the *ahem* debate challanged for what they are. The standard liberal tactic of shouting down opposition dosen't work very well in this kind of format, does it bugs? Please list specific examples of when Rush was wrong, and why you feel you are right. I believe the phrase is 'put up or shut up'.

Message: Fnord is a retarted name for a retarded rebooblican. can't you see what your doing to America this great country with your hypocritical hogwash. you should be ashamed of yourself. just listen to limbaugh one time and anyone can see what a liar he is. just listen and thats proof enough for anyone. theres your proof so just sulk off in a corner with the rest of your rebooblican pals whining with all your hate and trying to stop a great man like Bill Clinton. shame on you and all Rebooblicans.

Message: Ah, I see then bugs. So, you have no real evidence to support your claims of Limbaugh's alleged 'lies', as you call them. Since you lack evidence of Limbaugh's inaccuracies we can only guess as to your objections to the show. From what you've posted here, I gather that you are not a regular listener to the program. This undercuts your position, mr. bugs. How can you object to something that you don't listen to? Then there is the attempt to divert the discussion away from your lack of evidence by initiating a personal attack on the name I use. Really now, such emotional ploys might pass as effective debate tactics in liberal land, but out here I'm going to hold you to a somewhat higher standard. A pity really, this could have been a great discussion...But I'll give you bonus points if you can identify what book the term 'Fnord' came from. It's also interesting to note that only conservatives can be called 'nazi's' while the most decitfull of liberals isn't dared called 'socalist'.....

Possible Responce Number 1
Goodness, I've been promoted to "Dead Conqueror of Europe and Killer of Millions". (ROTFLMAO) We need more Liberals like you Bugs. You lend so much credibility to your cause.

Possible Responce Number 2
Oh Yeah?! Well, uh... Clinton is the AntiChrist and Hillary is a Succubus! Yeah, they're Evil Monsters from Hell, yeah, that's it, Evil Monsters from Hell!

Feel free to add your own selections. (Bugs, you know we all love you but please stop posting the same stuff over and over.)

Message: I voted for President Clinton in both elections and would vote for President Clinton a 3rd time! I love Mr. and Mrs. Clinton and wish them the best of success.

I think this message may lay to rest the misconception that conservatives march in lockstep. While, I think Zippy and I philosophically agree on just about everything - recently I have found some of Zippy's statements philosophically inconsistent (this is a philosophical issue - not a personal issue). When the Editor opened this forum up with the old stand-by "the right wing spews hate and has no joy in their live"(for want seemed to be the one millionth time) - I felt I had had enough. I demanded the editor support that statement or desist (my phrasing was "blow it out your [insert bodily orifice here]" which essentially means the same thing). I get really tired of liberals on the forum using the "hate" word name calling every time their logic or reasoning is proven to be faulty. Many people agreed with me and I thought maybe this time we will get the Editor to stop spewing this hate-word name-calling. But NO! Zippy speaks up and AGREES with the editor (that the right wing is hateful and has no joy in their lives). Suddenly the dream of a forum without hate word name-calling is shattered. The Editor boldly claims vindication by Zippy (the only real conservative) and then the Editor deletes all the messages asking her to stop the ad hominem attacks. Slick move Zippy. Zippy - you then relay that you agree with the editor that things are getting too unfriendly around here - Jeepers Zippy, that is a NOT what the editor said. The Editor present a one-sentence message in which it was said the right wing filled the last forum with hate.

I get the feeling that Zippy must work in sales. Zippy often presents his views more lucidly then I do (I am usually in a hurry or I get emotional over absurd statements - hey, I'm a musician and a songwriter so I am allowed to be emotional). If you read Zippy's views I think you will find that Zippy is a bit more right wing than I am and far more rigid in his ideology (this is not a cut - this just means he is a bit less pragmatic then I am - I guess I read too much Ayn Rand). What is funny is watching the editors response to zippy. Since I do not work in sales and I call them like I see them - the editor thinks I am a hateful right-winger. Zippy on the other hand basically holds identical positions to me (and some even more right-wing then me) but since Zippy is always buttering up and cuddling the editor - the editor calls Zippy honorable and me hateful (Ponderous). This does show that the Editor does not hold many real principle and is only interested in the presentation or the spin (the essence of the Clinton era and Clinton Liberalism - Pringles don't matter, it is how you present them and how you spin them).

Anyway - Zippy I really wish you had not given the editor another pass. All this means is the editor will continue her bigoted attack on all that do not agree with her ideology. It would be nice if the editor and the liberals on this forum would stop the name-calling "�to dream the impossible dream"

The above statement was made by me and taken COMPLETELY out of context by Zippy (this was Zippy's way of proving the right wing is hate filled). Zippy you left one important thing out - what followed this statement Zippy? A bloody smiley face! The International sarcasm symbol which means I am just kidding around. Jeepers, Zippy I thought even you understood the power of the smiley face. I made that statement as a reply to a statement in which the editor said I was "sometime lovable" but it was "extremely rare" - well I know for a fact that I am lovable MOST of the time!!! So I was responding in kind. ZIPPY- it was a bloody joke (thus the smiley face).

. LVD, I have witnessed you lambaste a fool on this forum with "YOU FOOL" peppered throughout the post

The reason I stated "YOU FOOL" over and over was the person I responded to had boldly - in your face - make many completely false statement so they could boldly reach the bigoted conclusion that all conservatives were evil. A statement of that nature requires one to respond in kind! If the person making that statement was not so arrogant - I would not has called their logic "foolish" as in "you fool".

. You were of course correct in all of your assertions but your point would have been just as forceful had you refrained from

I don't really disagree with you but was it not you that said "get the fuck off the forum" to some liberal lunatic? The duality of your statements force me to take the facial express of the RCA dog listening to his master in the old record player. "we are being a wee bit inconsistent" aren't we Mr. Slung (I am not trying to be nasty - just wondering). BTW - I have never used the word "f**k" on this forum.

Since Bill Clinton took office I've slowly begun to actually hate this guy. Our Nation is being lead by Evil Men. I find no Joy in that. God I miss Ronald Reagan.

I feel like am going through an Alice in Wonderland / psilocyben mushroom trip in which I travel a long arduous journey only to find I have gone nowhere. You agree with me - not to mention you are willing to take it a few steps further to the right (I don't hate Clinton) and yet you are willing to give the editor a pass. Oh well. All I want is everybody to debate like intellectual beings - you stop calling me names and I will stop calling you names in retort (the ironic phasing of the last statement was done on purpose).

Oh - think I have completely forgotten what it is I was tweaked about - not to mention the Editor has censored and deleted all the evidence. Oh well�

Message: "I'll type slowly so you get it this time. At no point did I indicate that we might have to defend ourselves from ourselves. However we might have to defend ourselves from our Government."

I'll type s-l-o-w-l-y so that you get it this time.
Zippy, according to your definition, our government is an alien entity (not made up of ordinary Americans like you and me) who will one day attempt a "violent overthrow" of good Americans?

Are you telling me that my cousins and in-laws who work for the government are not "fellow Americans" and these wonderful people I love dearly will one day take up arms against me, so therefore I need a huge cache of assult rifles etc., to "overthrow" them "violently"?

"All this means is the editor will continue her bigoted attack on all that do not agree with her ideology"

LVD, you are not only a "whiner" you also have a very short memory and twist the truth. You post more messages on this forum than 98% of the people who come in here and all you can do is whine when I criticized you for "twisting the truth." You know exactly what you did.... you wanted Zippy to believe that I included him with those people who posted hate-filled messages on Forum 86.

Now here you are again trying to make a case for yourself by twisting the truth (again) in order to have people believe other than what actually happened.

Then you challenge me to prove my hate-filled accusation about some of the right-wing on forum 86 while I was on vacation.

Oh to have the gift to see ourselves as others see us... LVD, just look at the sentence in bold (above) and tell me that it is not hate-filled. You called me a "bigot" and that's the worst of insults. Where's the proof? Do you call a person who runs a liberal forum, for over four years, with more right-winger messages on board than liberals a bigot? Please explain? How can I be a bigot if I have put up with you for almost one year already??? You should give me a medal not call me hateful names. You have more messages on the archived forums than everyone else with the exception of Zippy. That's your definition of bigot?

It's time to change your medication again, LVD. Tell your shrink to give you something that will stop your whining. I can't stand whiners.

I never once agreed that the Right Wing was filled with anything but sound ideology and compassion for their fellow human beings. (If anything I posted was interpreted to indicate otherwise I sincerely apologize for the confusion. Please point it out and I will gladly retract it.) I was only pointing out that civility is possible even when at polar opposite ends of an argument. When I tell someone to "shut the f**k up" it's usually one of two choices; make your point politely and logically or shut the f**k up".

LVD, I'm not in sales, though I suppose I could have been fairly decent at it. I'm in software. I write programs and logic and planning are my life here at work. I am often the peacemaker between different camps here at work (I will never cease to be amazed at how many different solutions to a problem a group of programmers can come up with) I have been accused of being contradictory but I can usually explain the contradictions (as above) when questioned. And yes, I could well have jumped down the Editors throat and called him/her a hate-mongering, lying, censoring, worthless piece of s**t but that would have done little to tone down empty rhetoric that was (and is) being posted. Both sides here have had their share of idiots. (Admittedly our side has more geniuses but then I'm a tad biased.) I'd just like to save our side from any more accusations of hate (call me an optimist). "Patience is a virtue hard to come by". In any case, (as a salesman might say) I agree with you on most points and our differences seem more stylistic than substantial. These days, I'll take what I can get.

One last (minor) point:
A statement of that nature requires one to respond in kind!

I don't know about you, but I was once a Full Blown Flaming Left Wing Liberal. Given time and natural curiosity one begins to discern the plainly visible evidence that Liberal Philosophy is badly flawed at it's core.

Zippy most conservatives I know are reformed liberals. Yes I was a liberal Democrat from 1978 to 1988. I was born into a Democrat family. As a kid I visited the JFK gravesite (no big deal we lived near DC) and the JFK shrine thing on Cape Cod. My family is all Democrat and still is. When I was 18 I registered as a Democrat because everybody else did and only stiff old rich men were republicans. I sung the praises of Jimmy Carter - even thought I really did know why everybody else did (I was 16 when he was elected). In 1980 I worked for the John Anderson campaign - why? Because a friend of mine got me involved and there were tons of classy young women involved - I passed out position papers but never really read them - heck I was trying to do a Clinton and nail a babe - cut me some slack, I was a 20 year old rock and roll musician.

I used to say nasty things about Reagan - because everybody else did and I didn't really have time think for myself on political issues - drinking huge amounts of alcohol, playing rock music, and chasing wonton rock and rock wenches is a full time job. In the mid-80's I awoke from the haze and started what I call my renaissance. I went back to college and starting questioning everything - my goal was to understand WHY I think and do what I do and think. I started working on a degree in philosophy and I started exploring religious experiences (not just Christianity, but also Zen Buddhism, ba'hi, etc) (I am really fond of the etc religion)(that was a joke). Anyway, abortion was the turning point for me - I applied an intellectual process to the issue of abortion and found the left was lying - that started by rightward turn. The intellectual process is this:

You keep going with this exercise until you reach the point where you say "yes, it is ok to kill it now" and then you ask yourself: What happens one second after this point that makes it not OK to kill the child - what magical event makes the child unkillable? You will find the answer is nothing! Just an a

Hillary_Clinton_Forum_87

Yes, I WON BIG!

'Aggression is over', Serbs told

State-run television, which broke into its evening programs to report to conclusion of talks between NATO and Yugoslav generals in Macedonia, hailed the agreement as a victory for "the policies of President Slobodan Milosevic."

BUGS