Hillary_Clinton_Forum_61

Name: ControlGirl

email:

Message:

Name: Don Phelps

email: dphel@email.com

Message: Hillary should run for V-Pres. being a senator is a podunk job for ineffective people and New York doesn't deserve Hillary- they deserve D'Amato

Name: Zippy the Wonder Slug

email:

Message: You go ControlGirl!

Name: Editors to all

email: MOVE ON

Message: MOVE ON - $60 million dollars have been spent trying to get the Clintons on sex, travelgate, filegate, watergate, etc. Kenneth Starr could find nothing. We want NEW ISSUES. Obsession is a mental disease. We will delete the old stuff. If you want to talk about travelgate, watergate, filegate, or Clinton's sex life go to another forum. We have 60 forums full of those tired old accusations that Kenneth Starr could not prove and that is enough. Right-wingers you have had your day in court so to speak. MOVE ON. We are thinking in the future and this old grind is boring. Don't you have any new issues you can share with us?

Name: Graduated high school to We the people

email:

Message: Conservatives don't "hate" Hillary, we just reject her failed ideas. We know that throughout history every tyrant and tyrant wanna-be has had to have their own "village," a village made to their own liking, AND THE VILLAGERS WILL LIKE IT! The Clinton's have an obsession with Federal Govt. programs taking over our lives. Obviously, Bill's statement in the State of the Union speech a few years ago - "the era of big govenment is over" (and then spent the next hour praising his own new big govt. programs) was another lie. What is insulting is the usual BS about how the latest new Govt. proposal is "for the children." The only logical conclusion of an expanding Govt. and Govt. intrusion is slavery for the children. We don't want our children and grand children to be socialist slaves on the Govt. plantation. If you want to be a sheep and have the federal govt. run your life, then you can move to that socialist utopian "village" just 90 miles south of Florida known as Cuba. Get a life and get off your knees before your idol, Bubba

Name: Will

email:

Message: RUN !!! Hillary RUN !!! for the U.S. Senate in my home state of N.Y.

Name: Vernon to editor

email:

Message:

This IS the most important issue to face us today. There WAS no trial. As of yet, anyway. $60,000,000.00 have been spent. So what? If clintongs administration had not done the evil deeds no investigation would be necessary. If clintongs administration had not obstructed justice, less money would have been spent. Over 100 potential witnesses took the fifth or fled the country. How many have been convicted and placed in prison? Compare that to the Iran-Contra. Over $70,000,000.00 spent. How many convicted? I can't think of any. How many years on that witch-hunt? I think 7. How many witnesses took the fifth or fled the country? None that I know of.

Name: W. H. Joy

email: barwin@erols.com

Message: I would suggest that you return to Little Rock, find a replacement for Vince and stop meddling the where you are not wanted nor needed. Remember your health care program [$3 million down a rat hole].

Name: W. H. Joy

email: barwin@erols.com

Message: I would suggest that you return to Little Rock, find a replacement for Vince and stop meddling the where you are not wanted nor needed. Remember your health care program [$3 million down a rat hole].

Name: Charlie Reyner

email: reyner@primus-online.de

Message: HI HILLARY, GO FOR IT !!!!!!!! I DON'T CARE WHETHER YOU RUN FOR SENATOR OR VICE PRESIDENT, (ALTHOUGH I WOULD PREFER FOR PRESIDENT!!!! - NOT WISE AT THIS TIME). I THINK YOU WOULD BE THE IDEAL LEADER: A COMBINATION OF THE LION & THE LAMB (AS RECOMMENDED IN "THE PRINCE" BY MACHIAVELLI). HOPEFULLY THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE NOW READY FOR YOUR GREAT IDEAS. LET'S HOPE SO!!!! KEEP ON TRUCKIN' & HI TO BILL & CHELSEY! BEHIND YOU 100 %, CHARLIE REYNER (BORN IN THE GREAT STATE OF MICHIGAN)

Name: Fabius

email:

Message: TPI - We ARE afraid of the Clintons philosophy of controlling the people. They are cut from the same cloth as any big government, media controlled, thought policed regime in history.

How come all the supporters of Hillary look to her as their savior. What the? Get off your butts and make a life for yourself, if you need help it is out there.

Out of 17,000,000 people, New Yorkers don't have a single person better than a speak to the dead, carpet bagger from the south?
That state is in trouble if they reject all the positive changes that the Republican Administrations have brought. It is a safer city and state than it has been in decades and Hillary believes so much in herself that she can take it back to the glory days of higher crime, drugs and gang rule. Typical liberal self elevation and they will always have their worshippers.

Name: Howard

email: hedjr@ix.netcom.com

Message: I would love to see you run. I want to know just how stupid the people of New York really are and I want to watch you squirm over the questions about your so called husband. How can you represent the people of a state that you've never lived in? Go for it Hillary Roadhog Clinton, just don't expect any help from Ohio. We like our representitives to be honest and above board. Please run, so I have a reason to write.

Name: Fabius on Machiavelli

email:

Message: It is about time that someone on the left identified one of the driving forces of the Clinton ideology. Charles advocated the principles of Niccolo Machiavelli openly and blatantly. The 58 Demonrats in the Progressive Caucus are openly active members of Socialist International and soon we will hear the Marxists and the Maoists openly promoting themselves and Editor and others will cheer and eventually say about the Contitution - MOVE ON!

Hey Liberals! Got guts enough to view the Socialist International link above? It contains in it a link to the 58 Demonrats in the House that openly promote it.

Name: Fabius to Machiavelli Promoters in the Demonrat Party

email: Read a small chapter and see who this "Prince" sounds like

Message: CHAPTER XVIII
Concerning The Way In Which Princes Should Keep Faith

EVERY one admits how praiseworthy it is in a prince to keep faith, and to live with integrity and not with craft. Nevertheless our experience has been that those princes who have done great things have held good faith of little account, and have known how to circumvent the intellect of men by craft, and in the end have overcome those who have relied on their word. You must know there are two ways of contesting, the one by the law, the other by force; the first method is proper to men, the second to beasts; but because the first is frequently not sufficient, it is necessary to have recourse to the second. Therefore it is necessary for a prince to understand how to avail himself of the beast and the man. This has been figuratively taught to princes by ancient writers, who describe how Achilles and many other princes of old were given to the Centaur Chiron to nurse, who brought them up in his discipline; which means solely that, as they had for a teacher one who was half beast and half man, so it is necessary for a prince to know how to make use of both natures, and that one without the other is not durable. A prince, therefore, being compelled knowingly to adopt the beast, ought to choose the fox and the lion; because the lion cannot defend himself against snares and the fox cannot defend himself against wolves. Therefore, it is necessary to be a fox to discover the snares and a lion to terrify the wolves. Those who rely simply on the lion do not understand what they are about. Therefore a wise lord cannot, nor ought he to, keep faith when such observance may be turned against him, and when the reasons that caused him to pledge it exist no longer. If men were enti

Name: Zippy the Wonder Slug

email:

Message:

Don't you have any new issues you can share with us?

You want new issues? Fine. You have ignored my repeated requests for a comment on Comrade Clinton's plan to invest a quarter of the Social Security Fund (for starters) in the Stock Market. There was no mention of which stocks would be chosen or how they would be chosen but I would wager that only those companies in agreement with Comrade Clinton's views would benefit! This is just barely short of Fascism! Comments?!

Clinton's policies are nearly as corrupt and pathetic as he is personally!

And, if you dare, you could even comment on the recent developments in Comrade Clinton's Cabinet that Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt were held in contempt by a Federal Judge for failing to produce requested records for over a year. Comments?!

Oh, and if it's not too much trouble, ask Hillary what Futures Contracts I should invest in so I can make a 10,000 percent profit in a few weeks? I could use the money since I just got screwed by Comrade Clinton's IRS again this year. Comments?!

Name: Fabius on Machiavelli

email: Continued

Message: If men were entirely good this precept would not hold, but because they are bad, and will not keep faith with you, you too are not bound to observe it with them. Nor will there ever be wanting to a prince legitimate reasons to excuse this nonobservance. Of this endless modern examples could be given, showing how many treaties and engagements have been made void and of no effect through the faithlessness of princes; and he who has known best how to employ the fox has succeeded best.

But it is necessary to know well how to disguise this characteristic, and to be a great pretender and dissembler; and men are so simple, and so subject to present necessities, that he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived. One recent example I cannot pass over in silence. Alexander VI did nothing else but deceive men, nor ever thought of doing otherwise, and he always found victims; for there never was a man who had greater power in asserting, or who with greater oaths would affirm a thing, yet would observe it less; nevertheless his deceits always succeeded according to his wishes, because he well understood this side of mankind.

Therefore it is unnecessary for a prince to have all the good qualities I have enumerated, but it is very necessary to appear to have them. And I shall dare to say this also, that to have them and always to observe them is injurious, and that to appear to have them is useful; to appear merciful, faithful, humane, religious, upright, and to be so, but with a mind so framed that should you require not to be so, you may be able and know how to change to the opposite.

And you have to understand this, that a prince, especially a new one, cannot observe all those things for which men are esteemed, being often forced, in order to mainta

Name: Howard

email: hedjr@ix.netcom.com

Message: Feel free to write back when you learn how. My wife is from New York and you are dead meat in upstate. The liberal polls don't count those of us who vote as conservetives, so I agree with her family, you might win the city, but you can't win the state. Go ahead and run. I want to see you slither out of Billy's shadow. That should be fun.

Name: Fabius on Machiavelli

email: continued

Message: And you have to understand this, that a prince, especially a new one, cannot observe all those things for which men are esteemed, being often forced, in order to maintain the state, to act contrary to faith, friendship, humanity, and religion. Therefore it is necessary for him to have a mind ready to turn itself accordingly as the winds and variations of fortune force it, yet, as I have said above, not to diverge from the good if he can avoid doing so, but, if compelled, then to know how to set about it.

For this reason a prince ought to take care that he never lets anything slip from his lips that is not replete with the above-named five qualities, that he may appear to him who sees and hears him altogether merciful, faithful, humane, upright, and religious. There is nothing more necessary to appear to have than this last quality, inasmuch as men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, because it belongs to everybody to see you, to few to come in touch with you. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are, and those few dare not oppose themselves to the opinion of the many, who have the majesty of the state to defend them; and in the actions of all men, and especially of princes, which it is not prudent to challenge, one judges by the result.

For that reason, let a prince have the credit of conquering and holding his state, the means will always be considered honest, and he will be praised by everybody because the vulgar are always taken by what a thing seems to be and by what comes of it; and in the world there are only the vulgar, for the few find a place there only when the many have no ground to rest on.

One prince of the present time, whom it is not well to name, never preaches anything else but peace and good faith, and to bo

Name: Fabius On Machiavelli

email: continued and finished......AT LAST

Message: One prince of the present time, whom it is not well to name, never preaches anything else but peace and good faith, and to both he is most hostile, and either, if he had kept it, would have deprived him of reputation and kingdom many a time.

Are there any liberals alarmed by your parties OPEN link to Socialist International in direct hostility to the Constitution? Or are you going to continue in this model of behavior practiced from the time the first man lorded it over another, "But it is necessary to know well how to disguise this characteristic, and to be a great pretender and dissembler; and men are so simple, and so subject to present necessities, that he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived."

We know TPI and Charles are willingly deceived by the Pretender and dissembler, but are the rest of you really going to continue to give your souls to others?

Name: WE THE PEOPLE(TPI) TO CORESPONDANTS

email:

Message: The main issue here is to go forward as a team and not as competiters. If you spent the mony that they (you) have spent to pursicute Clinton on any other president you could have done criticail personal harm . Perhaps others may not have made the same mistakes , but equalliy so they would have fallen victom to that kind of negative Ploys against anyone . I tell you this , and I truely believe it : If I where to spend that much money on anyone of you that persicute Clinton . I no with that kind of mony I could bring down any of you and fource you into many personallity /judgment calls that hence forth would make you a villan. Our president has made some big mistakes . He has also bee on a constant gard and has had to deal with asault after asault , ever since he stated he would run for office .Most people would have compleately lost it (cracked ) under these pressures .But Bill has stood tall and strong . Bill is a good leader and was voted in for a second term . "That is factual" there is however a lot of Clinton enimies with lots of power and lots of money, and are doubleing there resorces to bring him down with our tax dallars as well. I have not yet seen anyone that voted for Bill Clinton act as ratical or hatefull as the folks in the senate and in this forum that are anti Clinton . It seems to me that you all disliked Clinton from the start and just live in hatered towards what "We THE PEOPLE " have chosen , If my wife cheated on me or lied to me I would be upset , but I wouldnt trash her . She is a leader in this house as well as I . We all make errors and the media and money have magnified Bill as an animal . He is a Human and has stood up to the country and the world to admit his faults . Yes he wasnt up front and mislead at times , he like anyone else would have been intitled to lead there case as they please . To defend ones self is not a crime , but even now that this is over , Yet another story comes out . Why dont you all just bring it all out at once , why do you just keep on searching to ruin someone . That is not what this country is about and I garinee I could ruin any of you with that kind of money. Also anyone who read bout democratic socialistic behaviors , well I disagree but if it were true id rather have that then the thugg like dictatorship tactics of those trying to sabatoug our votes . I dont mind you bitterness and view points , but lets heal this mess and stop the ruining of the president game ........Thanks for your time TPI135TPI

Name: WE THE PEOPLE(TPI) TO CORESPONDANTS

email:

Message: The main issue here is to go forward as a team and not as competiters. If you spent the mony that they (you) have spent to pursicute Clinton on any other president you could have done criticail personal harm . Perhaps others may not have made the same mistakes , but equalliy so they would have fallen victom to that kind of negative Ploys against anyone . I tell you this , and I truely believe it : If I where to spend that much money on anyone of you that persicute Clinton . I no with that kind of mony I could bring down any of you and fource you into many personallity /judgment calls that hence forth would make you a villan. Our president has made some big mistakes . He has also bee on a constant gard and has had to deal with asault after asault , ever since he stated he would run for office .Most people would have compleately lost it (cracked ) under these pressures .But Bill has stood tall and strong . Bill is a good leader and was voted in for a second term . "That is factual" there is however a lot of Clinton enimies with lots of power and lots of money, and are doubleing there resorces to bring him down with our tax dallars as well. I have not yet seen anyone that voted for Bill Clinton act as ratical or hatefull as the folks in the senate and in this forum that are anti Clinton . It seems to me that you all disliked Clinton from the start and just live in hatered towards what "We THE PEOPLE " have chosen , If my wife cheated on me or lied to me I would be upset , but I wouldnt trash her . She is a leader in this house as well as I . We all make errors and the media and money have magnified Bill as an animal . He is a Human and has stood up to the country and the world to admit his faults . Yes he wasnt up front and mislead at times , he like anyone else would have been intitled to lead there case as they please . To defend ones self is not a crime , but even now that this is over , Yet another story comes out . Why dont you all just bring it all out at once , why do you just keep on searching to ruin someone . That is not what this country is about and I garinee I could ruin any of you with that kind of money. Also anyone who read bout democratic socialistic behaviors , well I disagree but if it were true id rather have that then the thugg like dictatorship tactics of those trying to sabatoug our votes . I dont mind you bitterness and view points , but lets heal this mess and stop the ruining of the president game ........Thanks for your time TPI135TPI

Name: Fabius

email:

Message: Niccolo Machiavelli's - The Prince, Chapter XVIIIfor those that would like to read this chapter as above, but continuously without interspersed posts.

Name: Fabius

email: Bad Link above to Socialist International

Message: The correct link to Socialist International. My apologies for the bad link above.

Name: Fabius to TPI

email:

Message: I have a lot of compassion for you because you are lost and under mind control. You must see that your posts, your viewpoints, your unabashed defense of a person that would squash you like a bug if you had the power to stop him is mindless and as a cult follower. We will never be in unison in this country and never have been. Conservatives will never go from fact based ideology to cultural relativism. We will never accept this man whole heartedly to the point we stop fighting his policies.

I do not know the exact fact on how much money was spent on Ronald Reagan and the fictitious Iran Contra story, but it was more than $60,000,000 and for 7 years, yet you will not acknowledge that you, TPI, and your party went after him with 10 times the venom we could ever muster. WE HAVE YOUR PREDATOR ON TAPE! WE KNOW HE HATES THE CONSTITUTION AND HAS NO HONOR! WE KNOW HE IS REDEFINING WORDS AND TERMS to bring people like you into his fold - those like you with no desire or will to think for yourselves.

The president was elected without a majority. I live in the country that he is president, but I will NEVER accept his policies or his evil lest he turn from infanticide, social engineering, word twisting, character assasination, lying and defamation of the Constitution.

This is a culture WAR, not a mere disagreement.

Name: TPI to Vernan

email:

Message: I was apauled when I dicident to review previous letters ritten to this forum by yourself vernon , this due to the fact that you had stated in one of your letters that your are a grand parent (that is good) But I thought that you were much younger . It seemed "from your constant Childish remarks and insults in almost all of your letters in this forum" that you might be in your early twenties . I admit and apauligise do to the fact that I also allowed myself to go there a few times . Your biterness and childish behavior seemed to be like a virus spreading to myself. I can only say that I am glad that I relized my mistake in this topic and have corrected it . Perhaps it would be wise if you go baxck and read your own letters ritten in this forum and juge with your own heart why you have acted so angrey, insultive and childish in almost all of your w rittings.

Name: TPI to Fabious

email:

Message: Fabious , lets live for today and not bring up the past , any couselor will tell you that it only causes bitterness and often is the cause of broken relationships .That might other wise be healthy . Hypatheticaly speaking : Lets say Bill will remain in office for the rest of his term . What can we as American citizens do to better our country in support of our elected offical. There is so much more that could and would be done in a possitive nature if we just moved on . There will be a new president soon enough and "We THE PEOPLE " including you and me shall once again go to the poles and make the change needed at that time :..... Please answer without sarcasium like so many of us have been in the past..... Thanks for your time..TPI135TPI

Name: TPI135TPI to Editor

email:

Message: You do a swell job at editing and have been an inspiration and teacher to me . Thank you ffor continuing this forum and allowing us all as American Citicense have our voices heard . This is a great nation and we need to get back to work . Thanks again for this great forum of opertunity TPI135TPI Good night all, and let God work in our hearts !

Name: James

email: Havre.MT@Mailcity.com

Message: Being originally from New York State: SUPPORT HILLARY R. CLINTON FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK STATE!!! or at least the First Female President of the United States of America

Name: George

email: gdebeer@wgt.org.za

Message: What I like about your First Lady is that she thinks for herself. I don't think she will base this decision on what you and I are saying. She will probably base it on whether or not she thinks she can bring something new to this place called the Senate. After all she...well,as we say in Africa... "Ho tshwara tau ka ditlena" She can "hangon when things are tough" or literally "Catch and hold a lion by it's jaw"

Name: Chris Harrison

email: rharr704@bellsouth.net

Message: Dear First Lady; New York, New Shmork! I say run for the Tennessee seat! Maybe we can put you in Bill Frist's chair, or that jackass Fred Thompson. If you need to establish residency, you can come and stay with my wife and I. Let us know so we can plan what to have for dinner. Best of luck. All our love. Stay the course. Etc.

Name: Vernon

email:

Message: Tpi, none of my comments have been childish. But you are right, I am angry, I am damn angry. I'm angry that this administration has lied to the people, raised our taxes time and again, which is supposedly resulting in a surplus which he won't give back. I'm angry that people like you continue to want the government to be MY big brother and tell me what is best for me. I'm angry that you appear not to care that this country is heading for socialism. You want things done in a positive nature, I agree. Let's start by eliminating 95% of ALL federal laws. Let's give control of peoples lives back to the people.

Name: Graduated High School

email: To We the People

Message: 150 years ago "the people" favored legalized slavery, since "the people" favored legalized slavery, by your "logic" that must have made legalized slavery a "good thing." We live in a constitutional republic, not a democracy. We are governed by laws, not by mob rule. The Office of President comes with an oath and the current occupant willfully, purposefully and deliberately violated that oath in a court of law and before the American people for over 7 months. A "mistake" is spilling milk at the breakfast table. Willfull, premeditated lying is more than a "mistake," it disqualifies you from public service. The current "White House" is a propoganda ministry that is even more hideous than what came out of the old Soviet Union. Get a life and get off your knees in front of your idol, Bill/Hill.

Name: Grace Kilgore

email: lady2work@aol.com

Message: I'd like to see Hillary to run and win the senate seat. Don't take me wrong, I like Guiliani but he's better off taking care of the city since he's been doing a terrific job. Having Rudy running the city and Hillary represent NY state is what NY needs. An awesome pair!

Name: kristen

email: krsthorn@hotmail.com

Message: Mrs. Clinton, The horror of the recent house and senate preceedings has caused my previously cool and detached political blood to boil. I am young, liberal, and outraged. I had not been actively involved in politics; certainly now I recognize that since replicans represent the antithesis of my beliefs, lack of political involvement is dangerous, and I refuse to tolerate through lack of action the perversion of our constitution I have witnessed. It is my mission to help remove the republican party from all vulnerable offices; any party who can attempt to legitimize such illogical, contradictory, self-damning rhetoric should not represent me. Our CONSTITUTION was manipulated by the well-organized but psychotic religious right's puppeteer-like control of the GOP! The common people recognized what the (un)educated and (mis)informed media would not: there WAS a conspiracy against your (moderately) liberal husband and our entire form of government. I, a representative of the detached generation-x, will not be apathetic anymore. Run for congress, then run for president: ride the crest of the wave of backlash. You will be our first female president and my young liberal cohorts, women, mistreated minorities, and even disgruntled republicans will support you. Young Liberal Mad Voter, Kristen

Name: Graduated High School

email: To Kristen

Message: So, there WAS a conspiracy against Bill Clinton. I am curious, how did the vast right wing conspiracy recruit Monica Lewinsky to get into the White House and seduce Bill? Who was it that put a gun to Bill's head and told him to drop his pants? Who was it that put a gun to Bill's head and forced him lie under oath and to the American People? Since you and Hillary are such conspiracy expterts, why don't you share with us how "the conspirators" are capable of having people do things against their will. Since you will defend Bill to the end, then you must agree with Bill that women are merely objects to be used and then discarded. So much for the advancement of "womanhood."

Name: Mike Anderson

email: aammjj@aol.com

Message: Hillary would be a rotten choice for the presidency. After years of marriage to the the national pimple Bill, she still has done nothing about his behavior. This tells me that: a. She approves of this behavior and may participate herself, b. she has no feelings towards him as a husband and stays together because she likes the power (living a lie), or c. she is weak and cannot control the idiot bill. She has lied to the press and the American people as well. How about how she recieved her name. Remmember that one? And how about the vast conspiracy to frame "Deadeye Bill" concerning his affair with Monica. . Hillary is either a great lier or exceptionaly naive. Neither of which makes a great president.

Name: makepeace planer

email: ulysses33@yahoo.com

Message: stay on the bus, forget about us. what about a senate seat in arkansas? or mississippi! that would change the hearts and minds, now -- wouldn't it? Besides NY already has 2 women senators.

Name: BE AN OLD DEMOCRAT

email: SMccr64741@aol.com

Message: Mrs. Clinton, may God hold you in His safety and favor as you think of your future in the U.S. and in the world.  I hope you don't get too offended at what I'm about to say but here it goes: DON'T BE LIKE YOUR HUSBAND, meaning, the world right now needs the leadership of an old democrat, not the new variety.

With all due respect to you, maam, no ground given to big banks, big tech, big pill-makers, big financial and bond markets, big etc. More real FAMILY VALUES themes pushed like universal health care insurance, big raise in the minimum wage, regulation of the markets, worker justice here and abroad, for starters.

Tell the Good Ol boy Party to take a royal hike, because they are as wrong now as they were when they ascended to power.

Name:

email:

Message:

Name: Last Visible Dog to Editor

email: PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH

Message:

We will delete the old stuff.

Why don't you start by deleting all the old, tired, dead messages you carry over to the beginning of each new forum. I guess you want to pretend you have more support for your views - but I think it is pointless to continually copy the same old messages to the beginning of each forum. Why not MOVE ON and start a forum fresh and new?

MOVE ON - $60 million dollars have been spent trying to get the Clintons on sex, travelgate, filegate, watergate, etc. Kenneth Starr could find nothing.

First, talk about old news - watergate happen in the early seventies and had nothing to do with Clinton -except for the fact the Bill Clinton said if a president lies to the American people (like he did last year) that alone was grounds enough for the president to be removed. Can you say hyp-o-crite - I knew that you could. Second, the real number is about 50 million - that same amount of money Bill Clinton spent to take his "friends" and campaign donors over to China for a couple week vacation. Lets see - 50 million in a 5 year pursuit of justice that has yielded over 15 convictions including Clinton's hand picked successor Governor of Arkansas and Clinton's deputy Attorney General and also yielded the successful impeachment of a setting elected president (the first time in American history) OR 50 million for a really cool vacation for Clinton and his friends (Starr's money was well spend in comparison).

. We are thinking in the future and this old grind is boring. Don't you have any new issues you can share with us?

From my reading of the last weeks messages - it is the left-wing extremists that keep bringing up the old scandals and then they quickly say we most move on - if you cats want to MOVE ON then stop talking about it! Like I said PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH

-LVD

Name: Fabius to Blind Ideologue Kristen

email:

Message: "It is my mission to help remove the republican party from all vulnerable offices; any party who can attempt to legitimize such illogical, contradictory, self-damning rhetoric should not represent me."

You are learning to be a good liberal in that you have outrage at your enemies, just because they are your enemies and you are told to do such by your cult leaders. Which statement in your post showed what you believe? You are spouting the talking points given by your leaders, but no points. If you want to be an intellectual at this formative stage of your life, then you should think before you speak. Plenty of people are wrong on this forum on both sides including myself several times and that is okay, but if pointed out and backed up we all should set pride aside for truth. Many here are unable to do so. Analyze all the things you stated above against fact. What was illogical in our party? Who was contradictory? If they were, other Republicans will join you in correcting them, but based in fact and not Clintonista MK Ultra victim fashion. What was self-damning rhetoric? That is a statement that may make you feel puffed up in its eloquence, but if you are going to spout rantings, back them up.

"Our CONSTITUTION was manipulated by the well-organized but psychotic religious right's puppeteer-like control of the GOP!"

How so? Back it up! Psychotic religious right is a pure and simple slam of hatred. Do you know any Christians? Or do you characterize anybody that believes in a factually substantiated Creator as deranged and out of touch with reality? To coin a phrase from the left, "whose reality?" The new one that has been recreated in America though it has failed every time it has been perpetrated on the commoners or the one that built this country and was used to correct it's own evils for 200 years and was thrown out of America beginning in 1963? You cannot back up your statements in fact if you tried because the Constitution was not violated by the Republicans, but it was in fact violated by your precedent, the democrats in both Houses and admitedly so by Robert Byrd, in the Senate. Liberals call the Religious right extremists as a propoganda tool that has worked effectively. Fact is that our CONSTITUTION was penned by men that spent their time in thoughtful prayer to create it. They sought the God you collectively flip off by your actions, words and hatred. You do so by twisting the truth, denying it willfully without reverence or thought. The Religious right of today has only been called extremists since the bill and hill jungen came to power and the founding fathers were far right of todays Religious right by miles. Note how many times God is referred to in the CONSTITUTION you probably have never read, and it is the platform of your party to take Him completely out of it. Think before you speak Kristen, and when you do speak be prepared to back it up.

Name: Last Visible Dog to Zippy

email: Clinton and Fascism

Message:

Comrade Clinton's plan to invest a quarter of the Social Security Fund… This is just barely short of Fascism.

From my understanding of the term and the history of its application - this is not short of fascism, it is quintessential fascism. Clinton's government investment/partial control of the private sector mirrors Benito Mussolini's "corporate state" fascist government. This is by far the scariest thing Clinton has tried to pull - it is like he thinks he got away with it so now he can get away with anything including turning American into a fascist state. Left-wing extremist like to toss the word "fascist" at conservatives without really understanding the meaning of the word so I find it a real dichotomy that the poster boy for left-wing extremists is opening advocating fascism and those on the left seem too ignorant to understand.

I guess this help prove the demographic that conservatives usually more educated then those on the left.

Left-wingers, look up Mussolini's style of fascism (he was the dictator of Italy from 1922 to 1943) BTW - when the people finally woke up to what he was doing to their country they killed him and dragged his lifeless body through the streets (btw - Mussolini was with his mistress when the people applied their justice - the similarities to Clinton are uncanny!). Duce Clinton?

-LVD

Name: Last Visible Dog to Wee Wee on the People

email:

Message:

Wee Wee On The People - if you had a clue you would not be half as much fun…

Let's have some fun, shall we?

If you spent the mony that they (you) have spent to pursicute Clinton on any other president you could have done criticail personal harm .

Everybody sing!
Here she come now, say, Mony Mony
Shoot 'em down, turn around, come on Mony
Hey, she give me lovin,' I feel all right yeah,
You've got me tossin,' turnin' in the middle of the night,
and I feel all right.
I say Yeah! (Yeah!)
You make me feel so good.
Wake me shake me, Mony Mony
Shot gun git it done come on, Mony
Don't stop lookin' it feels so good, yeah,
Don't stop now. Come on, Mony. Come on, Mony, Yeah!
(Tommy James)

Or did you mean money? Wee Wee, the Democrats spent 7 years (about 3 more than Starr) and about 70 millions dollars on their Iran/Contra witch hunt that yielded zero, zip, nada convictions and zero, zip, nada articles of impeachment and zero, zip, nada impeached presidents. Starr on the other time spent less time and less money and has (so far) gotten over 15 convictions and one big fat impeached elected president (the first time in history). Wee Wee, you need to MOVE ON but only after you get the facts straight.

But Bill has stood tall and strong .

…and looked us (all of America) straight in the eyes and lied repeatedly. Wee Wee your definition of "tall and strong" is very different from mine.

I was apauled when I dicident to review previous letters ritten to this forum by yourself vernon…your constant Childish remarks

You actually have the nerve to call Vernon childish when you actually spelled written - ritten (not the mention the ussage problem or apauled for appalled and dicident of which I have no idea what English word you were trying to use…maybe decided? Any other guesses?). What was it that Forest Gump said "Childish is as childish does". Take my advice - debate Vernon on the issues and avoid personal attacks (they have a tendency to backfire).

…lets live for today and not bring up the past , any couselor will tell you that it only causes bitterness…

You are amazing - simply amazing! First you say "If you spent the mony that they (you) have spent to pursicute Clinton on any other president you could have done criticail personal harm" then when someone points out that you are full of bologna you say "lets live for today and not bring up the past" That is some of the most ludicrous logic I have every experienced.

Party on Wee Wee (but don't Bogart that joint!)

-LVD

Name:

email:

Message: Dear Hillary, Did you read the Washington Post article by Lois Romano and Peter Baker on Saturday, February 20, 1999? It was on page A1. I hope you get your news from ABC, where more Americans get their news than from any other source. But be brave. I don't believe Juanita Broaddrick's charges about how your loving husband raped her. And anyway she probably was teasing him -- you know how sluts like that really enjoy the rough stuff. It's now 20 years ago too that this so called rape happened, so it's not like we have to know now what kind of guy Bill is. The economy is doing great! Juanita got her lips bitten through. So what? A few stitches probably taught her a lesson. Now Monica knew how to give out. I am very proud of you, Hillary, letting Bill have his fling. It's all about freedom of choice. And your darling little Chelsea must be so proud too to have such parents!

Name: George

email: flthd4ever@aol.com

Message: Can somebody tell me CLEARLY what business Hillary Clinton has running in New York's Senate race?

Lat time I checked, Hillary Clinton was born and raised in Illinois, Lived with her husband in Arkansas, went to school in Connecticut and most recently has resided in Washington D.C.

She is not a resident of New York and has no idea, as far as actual experience goes in representing the people of the state.

Name: George

email: flthd4ever@aol.com

Message: Can somebody tell me CLEARLY what business Hillary Clinton has running in New York's Senate race?

Lat time I checked, Hillary Clinton was born and raised in Illinois, Lived with her husband in Arkansas, went to school in Connecticut and most recently has resided in Washington D.C.

She is not a resident of New York and has no idea, as far as actual experience goes in representing the people of the state.

Name: DELILAH

email: delilah@yahoo.com

Message: madam hillary is only concerned with her own powerplay future! She does not care about you, me or anyone else. The only admireers she may have are those career-minded women who chose to abandon their families by working outside of the home. She does not care about anyone!! You will pay dearly for your freedoms by electing this nazi!!

Name: DELILAH

email: delilah@yahoo.com

Message: madam hillary is only concerned with her own powerplay future! She does not care about you, me or anyone else. The only admireers she may have are those career-minded women who chose to abandon their families by working outside of the home. She does not care about anyone!! You will pay dearly for your freedoms by electing this nazi!!

Name: George

email: flthd4ever@aol.com

Message: Can somebody tell me CLEARLY what business Hillary Clinton has running in New York's Senate race?

Lat time I checked, Hillary Clinton was born and raised in Illinois, Lived with her husband in Arkansas, went to school in Connecticut and most recently has resided in Washington D.C.

She is not a resident of New York and has no idea, as far as actual experience goes in representing the people of the state.

Name: Last Visible Dog to Wee Wee On The People

email:

Message:

Somebody stop me!

you and me shall once again go to the poles

Is that the North or South Pole? Or are you talking about the People of Poland? Or maybe you mean the thing a fireman slides down? Or maybe the thing that most American men would not touch Hillary with…a ten foot pole?

As for me I am looking forward to the election of 2000 when all Americans will go to the polls and …hey wait a minute, maybe I understand what Wee Wee is talking about - another word for pole is Shaft - yeah, that's it - maybe he means….the black private dick that's a sex machine to all the chicks, Shaft! You're damn right (clue music):

Who's the black private dick that's a sex machine to all the chicks?
(Shaft!)
You're damn right
Who is the man that would risk his neck for his brother man?
(Shaft!)
Can ya dig it?
Who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about
(Shaft!)
Right on
You see this cat Shaft is a bad mother-
(Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' about Shaft
(Then we can dig it)
He's a complicated man but no one understands him but his woman
(John Shaft)
[words and music by Issac Hayes]

-LVD

Name: George

email: flthd4ever@aol.com

Message: Can somebody tell me CLEARLY what business Hillary Clinton has running in New York's Senate race?

Lat time I checked, Hillary Clinton was born and raised in Illinois, Lived with her husband in Arkansas, went to school in Connecticut and most recently has resided in Washington D.C.

She is not a resident of New York and has no idea, as far as actual experience goes in representing the people of the state.

Name: Kristin with a Fist In

email:

Message: Mrs. Clinton, The horror of the recent house and senate preceedings has caused my previously cool and detached political blood to boil. I am fabulous, young, firm, liberal, out and outRAGED. I had not been actively involved in sexual politics; certainly now I recognize that since replicants represent the antithesis of my beliefs and sexual preference, lack of polititical hypocracy is dangerous, oooooooooooooo !!! and I refuse to tolerate through lack of perversion in our capitol. I have witnessed what turns me on and it’s gooooood.. It is my mission to help remove the sexually repressed from all vulnerable offices; any party who can attempt to legitimize such illogical, contradictory, self-damning rhetoric should not represent me, an insane dildo dipping lunachick. I was manipulated by the well-organized but psychotic religious right's puppeteer and loved every minute. The common whores recognized what the (un)educated and (mis)informed media would not: there WAS a conspiracy against your fatty-pumping husband and our entire form of government. I, a representative of the detached generation-x, will not be apathetic anymore. Run for congress, then run for president: ride the crest of the wave of ogasmic bliss. You will be our first female president and my young liberal cohorts, women, mistreated minorities, and even disgruntled republicans will support you. Young Liberal Mad Voter, (stick you fist in)Kristen

Name: Last Visible Dog

email: "Clinton said he never had sex with THAT WOMAN but he was just lion"

Message:

Deep Thoughts

as we say in Africa…Catch and hold a lion by it's jaw

Wouldn't the bloody lion bite the heck out of you if you were holding on to its jaw (that place where its teeth are). As we say in the Visible-Dog household (at least today) "Catch and hold a loin by the ears because it is impossible for a lion to bite its own ears"

-LVD

Name:

email:

Message:

Name: Merlene Roberts

email: lionel.roberts@bigfoot.com

Message: I am an ardent admirer of you Mrs. Clinton, and of our President and your daughter.  I applaud and congratulate you for how you handled yourself in this past year. 

I am hoping you will run for the Senate seat in New York and strongly hope you will one day be our first Woman President of the United States, in fact I predict that you will be.  You have very strong support here.

I admire how the First family and this administration reaches out to the lower and middle class and I am very impressed in the way you reach out to thank those who helped the administration in any way, this has never before taken place with any other administration, whose only aim is politics.

Please continue to take care of God's children and His creation and you will be richly blessed.  Again, Good Luck and God Bless. 

My name is Merlene Roberts, and I will appreciate the favor of a reply.  You are a Great Lady!!

Name: Run for President

email: DHarri3928@aol.com

Message: I WOULD  LIKE   TO SEE  YOU   RUN   FOR  PRESIDENT   !!!!!!!  YOU   WOULD  GET MY  VOTE   !!!    MR  PRESIDENT   HAS   DONE    A  WONDERFUL   JOB    AS  FAR I  CAN  SEE  

Name: Marilyn B McAvoy

email: m.gerstner@juno.com

Message: Dear Hillary,
I am from NYS and would love to be your campaign manager or on your committee if you decide to run for senate.  We could use a senator like you here.  I am a big fan of yours and know you do a lot for the good of children.  Please let me know when and how I can help.
Marilyn Gerstner-McAvoy

Name: Last Visible Dog to Kristen (liberal extremist gen-Xer)

email:

Message: kristen

since replicans represent the antithesis of my beliefs

Aren't Replicans the evil warlords that do battle with the Transformers (ie. Robots in disguise)?

It is my mission to help remove the republican party from all vulnerable offices; any party who can attempt to legitimize such illogical, contradictory, self-damning rhetoric should not represent me.

When will left-wing extremist learn that empty baseless rhetoric is meaningless - try supporting your wild claims with evidence - stick to the facts ma'am, not this empty emotional nonsense - or maybe you should stick to fighting Replicans. Please explain what the term "self-damning rhetoric" is supposed to mean? Sounds like guano to me.

there WAS a conspiracy against your (moderately) liberal husband

Kisten, sounds like you have got your head wedged into a bodily orifice. Conspiracy, like Bill Clinton admitting he lied (mislead) the American people? Conspiracy, like senior Democrat Senator Byrd saying Bill Clinton was guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors ("who's fooling who" was also his quote). You followers of the Cult of Clinton remind me of the followers of Jim Jones - no matter how clear the facts are your worship of this man keeps you blinded (take my advice, if Clinton offers you kool-aid - DON"T DRINK IT!).

then run for president: ride the crest of the wave of backlash.

Kristen, are you talking about the backlash that shows the top two unannounced Republican candidates for president are kicking ALGORES butt in the polls. The backlash that could give us a Republican House, Senate, AND President. Liberals, keep talking like lunatics and you will guarantee a Republican president. Kristen - you NEED to get on the media so you can get your "views" out to the masses (being that you are a self-appointed representative of Generation X- or were you referring to Billy Idol's first band).

Young Liberal Mad Voter, Kristen

You got the "mad" part correct - you may want to look into the meaning of that word (the primary meaning is "mentally disturbed or deranged"). How refreshing - for once an honest liberal.

(just trying to understand the liberal mind)

-LVD

Name: LVD to Kristin

email:

Message:

Kristin with a Fist In

A bodily orifice?

-LVD

Name: John Moore

email: jemoore@okay.net

Message: Please, if at all possible, send this message out to Hillary:

Hillary, WE NEED YOU TO RUN FOR SENATE!  As a New Yorker currently working and living in Germany I was absolutely appalled and ashamed for the entire nation when I saw what was going on in Congress.   I  realized that the Republican controlled House and Senate do not care one bit about what Americans really want.  The disgusting display of partisan politics at its worst were humiliating to any American.

New York is traditionally a democratic stronghold.  Unfortunately, with Rudy running for the Senate and Pataki in charge in Albany, the democrats have lost considerable ground over the last few years.  With senator Moynihan leaving now I fear that a power vacuum will be created that only a few truly exceptional individuals might abate.  I feel strongly that you are one of those people.

I urge and implore you to run for the Senate on behalf of my state.
Thank you.
John Moore

Name: LVD to Kristin

email:

Message:

Sorry Kristin, I hadn't read the entire message when I posted my "Kristin with a Fist in" retort - it seems obvious that that message was not written by you (at least I hope so).

-LVD

Name:

email:

Message:

Name: Sally-Jesse-Broaderick-Smith-Jones

email: Run Sister

Message: Dear Hillary, your such an inspiration. When my low life ex husbands treated me like dog poop and were boppin young honey's, I divorced the SOB's. But your so stong and courageous. I think you should write a new book: "How to maintain a non dysfunctional Marriage." Maybe you could write this book and do a campaign, book signing tour at the same time. Your such an authority on family life, maybe when you become Senator you could bring us the Federal Dept of Happy Marriage. Good luck and continue to lead by example and not empty rhetoric.

Name:

email:

Message:

Name: TPI to Kristen

email:

Message: Thanks for joining us in here , we need to stay focused and keep up the good work . The republicans do nothing but throw smokescreens all day long same as out roomate LVD. When LVD write s he some times has a decent idealisum although it is way off base . He see's only thye fram and not the whole picture .He use,s mostly blunt sacrcasum ie make s fun of spelling and what not and surely dose not convince people to republican with undisiplined statements , so Kristen just try and stay real as you have and thanks for being out there. Democratics are a threat to people like last visible dog and his attitching dictator wanna be 'Loser's .. Might as well call a spade a spade right LVD.....by for now Iv somewhat enjoyed LVD humor but this is not an erea to be humored . always behind the Clinton Administration . TPI

Name:

email:

Message:

Name: TPI to last visible dog

email:

Message: Correction on tipo inportant tipo error on above message by myself : Shoud read : LVD only looks at the frame and dosnt seem to see the whole picture. It might be my keyboard along with my bad spelling that caused this error, so perhaps i can find one at a republican office sale after the next election ... You no the nice $1000.00 dallar chair that the sell a year later to a fried for $50.00 bucks , but then again I am not considered their friend if I suport the Clintons , so I shall pay the same as the rest of us down here. Also I must inquire on the reason for your knowledge of billy Ideal and dope slang language .....your not another hipocritic thugg are you ? thanks for your time and have a great time makeing fun of the spelling instead of getting the meaning behind it . as always TPI

Name: TPI to graduate from high school

email:

Message: I am glad that you are a graduate , but this is a big world and a simple smile will not get you what you want, so its best that you learn early to have an open mind . It is mybelief that you are following your trusted parents choice in office . Its time to think for your self now . Hillary Clinton is a very very educated woman and if we are proud of educations as you name states , keep studying and you will find that the republicans are ambushing our votes . Thanks for you time dear TPI

Name: TPI to Howard

email:

Message: Howard you are as LVD , a very angrey person .I think that Hillary coul;d be of great profit to you and your angry crowd of thuggs.. Because she is for suporting mental health , this being a part of anger management as well . You should sincerally look into counseling . Our country is in a critical mode right now , which has a lot to do with the anger that the republican parties hold . But you need to stop manipulating the system for politacal frofit. That is all that she wrote ! thanks for your opinions , but I choice to be fruitful instead of hateful .. by for now TPI135tpi

Name: Last Visible Dog to TPI

email:

Message:

The republicans do nothing but throw smokescreens

Liberal Translation: smokescreens = facts

.He use,s mostly blunt sacrcasum ie make s fun of spelling

TPI, you are the only one of whom I make spelling merriment.

he some times has a decent idealisum although it is way off base

Could you explain what you mean by this statement - I don't consider myself idealistic about much (except maybe my music). What is "off base"?

so Kristen just try and stay real

Liberal Translation: stay real = avoid the facts and reality

Democratics are a threat to people like last visible dog

Only in your wildest liberal "wet dreams". To quote Jefferson Airplane "They can not tolerate our [my] mind"
BTW - it is Democrat not Democratics

and his attitching dictator

What is "attitching" - something that itches? On this one you have got me - I have NO idea what English word you were attempting to use (and I can't even relate it to song lyrics).
If you give me a PO box number or something - I swear I will send you a Dictionary free of charge.

Might as well call a spade a spade right LVD

Need you bring race into this?

always behind the Clinton Administration

Well you certainly would not want Clinton behind you - at least not in a public shower.

-LVD

Name: TPI to Chris Harris

email:

Message: LOL another angry republican .... You wernt by chance raise in Monrovia California at a young age where you ? Because I new a Chris Harris really well . Anyways real guys , you need to get on with life and stop this whitch hunt ..Its over but ov course your party always has something in the oven ..Lets turn the money against them and see how they do morally. Garantee most of um are worst then Clinton. Try to be purswasive with out the anger you may win a few extra vote s Thanks for your time TPI

Name: TPI to High school Graduate

email:

Message: In reference to your legal slavery nonse , I happen to be in the melting pot of this country and come from an angelow saxin family that has sence edaptid to gods people and I now have a very cute and intelligent niece that is african- -American- angelo saxon. And I have very sweet and inteligent Native Navaho-American -angelo saxon. So plese dont go back into a time of such horror as Slavory. The Civil war was very much about slavery and the loseing side of the battle wanted slavery . God was with us then as he is with us now . We need change and we need it now . The Clinton Administration has been under attac by these wanna be dictator thuggs . Please continue your education with an opened mind . Our parents are not always right , matter of fact I am 40 years old and cant talk to my dad at all abnout politics because he gets so angrey . But when I was younger I idolized and trusted his judge of charictor , but have since grown up and seen a different life. Thanks for your time TPI

Name: Last Visible Dog to TPI

email:

Message:

TPI - you really sound like someone that is in better control of this English language than this:

You no the nice $1000.00 dallar chair that the sell a year later to a fried for $50.00 bucks

I personally have zero luck selling anything to a fried.

Also I must inquire on the reason for your knowledge of billy Ideal and dope slang language .....your not another hipocritic thugg are you ?

I know some terminology of medical surgery - like scalpel and forceps - but that doesn't make me a doctor (or does it?). I believe you mean Billy Idol not Billy Ideal. BTW - I am a musician in the field of Rock and Progressive music therefore I am knowledgeable about a lot of music related stuff - how in the bloody hell does that make me a hypocrite? BTW - unlike Bill "weasel boy" Clinton I do not lie about my past experiences with illicit substances - have I ever been a party to the firing up of a doobie, you bet. Have I ever known the meaning of the term "nose candy" - I have. Did the stock of a major American brewery take a hit when I gave up drinking - maybe! How does any of this make me a "hipocritic thugg" (English translation: hypocritical thug)?

thanks for your time and have a great time makeing fun of the spelling instead of getting the meaning behind it .

How can anybody get the meaning if what you write does not make sense - you assume everybody is willing to work through your spelling snafu - I think you may be wrong. You do YOURSELF a disservice by not taking the time to relay your views in an intelligent manner.

Hillary Clinton is a very very educated woman

Really, where did she go to school and what degrees does she hold? (quick - look it up)

you will find that the republicans are ambushing our votes

Could you explain this lunatic ditty - how is this supposed to work? Let me guess - you are a raving left-wing extremist living a paranoid delusion of your own creation. That's it, isn't it?

Howard you are as LVD , a very angrey person

I AM NOT! And if I get my hands on you I are am going to kick the living sh** out of you and the horse you rode in on!!!!!!!!
(the above is ironic humor - think about it)
BTW - that should be "angry"

-LVD

Name: Graduated High School

email: TPI

Message: "It is mybelief that you are following your trusted parents choice in office . Its time to think for your self now . Hillary Clinton is a very very educated woman and if we are proud of educations as you name states , keep studying and you will find that the republicans are ambushing our votes." Actually my Parents voted for Clinton the first time around and when I was in college I voted against Ronald Reagan. "Graduated from High School" is a facetious name I use when talking to people stuck in a state of emotional adolescence, also known as liberals and Clinton defenders. Hillary Clinton is well educated? Maybe she is a really good lawyer too? Her clients and business partners are convicted felons. That means she is either a totally incompetent lawyer or a crook herself. If your attorney and business partner failed you miserably and you ended up a convicted felon, would you say your attorney was "well educated?"

Name: Editor to TPI

email:

Message: TPI - Why don't you use your spell check? If you have a computer you must have a spell check? I'm asking you this out of consideration for all of us. Do you have a spell check? If you do not have a spell check I can tell you where to go to download one.

Name:

email:

Message: opps

Name: TPI to LVD

email:

Message: LOL , I guess your not so bad .. you have brought a smill to my face because for some reason your sence of humor was not implied politicaly. I am glad that you are into lerics and I hope you dont listen to Judis Priest , because like clinton there group has caused childeren to do terrible things LOL. I do agree on one thing very strongly that you said earlier about getting rid oof 90% of government laws .. yes this is a great threat to our freedom . But tha I am afraid is conected to both repulican and demicrats and in many cases iit is the very weatlthy insurance companies spending billions of dallars earned by us and given to then and they use these monies to manipulate the system , (much like the republicans) anyways , yes the laws are starting to seperate people from there freedom. For instance , I just heard of a law past in New York that if one gets a DUI , that there car will be confinscated and sold off . I dont drink myself but and highley am against drunk driving , but if a drunk driver is in a 1999 bmw verses another in a bashed up 79 ford pinto I dont see the = punishment there.So to make a long atory short laws are past all day long that are not in favior of our freedoms and most of them are minipulated through the system before we can stand and say "Wait" Down in Arizona was a perfect example , the state goverment spent millions of our tax payers dallars to build a multimillion dallar baseball stadium and did it with out our aproval...It proves to me that they can build an Iffail tower to the moon with our tax dallars and we stand victum. Well better go...thanks for humoring me today TPI