Electronic Democracy, P.O. Box 1687, Sausalito, CA 94966
HILLARY CLINTON FORUM
Send E-mail to:editors@hillary.org
Photo courtesy
of Hillary's Hair. http://www.hillaryshair.com.
To Leave Your Own Message Scroll Down to the Bottom of this Page
Click here to
review the original 1995 Hillary Clinton Defense Forum
Click here to review the 1996
Hillary Clinton Defense Forum
Click here
to review the 1997 Hillary Clinton Defense Forum
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES relating to the Jan/Feb 1998
White House Sex Scandals
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES relating to the Feb/March 1998
White House Sex Scandals
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES relating to the March 1998
White House Sex Scandals
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES relating to the April 1998
White House Sex Scandals
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES relating to the May - June 1998
White House Sex Scandals
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES relating to July 28,1988 when supporters
on the Hillary Clinton Forum urged President Clinton to "Ignore the Subpoena!".Includes
some messages from the Drudge Report Attack before site was hacked down.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES relating to Monica Lewinsky's semen-stained
dress.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES relating to Monica Lewinsky's semen-stained
dress.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 15 relating to President Clinton's August 17th speech.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 16 Discussion subsequent to President Clinton's August 17th speech,
including the tie scandals.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 18 Will the President Recover? Bombing Afganistan.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 19 Thinking on the Beltway in contrast to the rest of the USA.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 20 Will the President Recover?
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 21 August 28 - September 1st.- Abortion, Gun Control, Russia, Clinton
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 22 September 1st.-7th. Dan Burton
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 23September 7th - 11th Kenneth Starr Delivers Report
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 24 Discussions on the Ken Starr Report to Congress.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 25 Hillary Clinton's documents
on Nixon's impeachment.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 26 Photos and descriptions
of Clinton's affairs.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 27 Discussions on perjury.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 28 Video Tapes Released!
Big surprise - Clinton's ratings go up!
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 29 Right-Wing extremists
attack on forum. Hacked, disabled, sexual abuse. Forum shut down for three days.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 30 Hillary Clinton in San Francisco. Very popular and very presidential. Fundraising Dinner for Barbara Boxer sold out! Editors of Hillary Clinton Forum invited to attend.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 31 Special Conservative Forum for
Anti-Liberal and Anti-Clinton messages.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 32 It's not sex, or even perjury, it's a Right-Wing COUP!
Dysfunctional Democracy - The Triumph of Theocracy.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 33 Bad News for the GOP - Significant
loss in polls after
release of the videos on the Internet.
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 34 Peace Accord in the Middle East.
H.RES.545 - SPONSOR: Rep Hastings, Alcee A resolution impeaching Kenneth W. Starr,
Click here
to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 35 Halloween. HUGE Voter turnout expected in
California. Judge orders Starr investigation.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 36 Democrats Win Big! Americans Send
a Message to Republicans - Drop it!
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 37 Why the GOP lost
the November 3rd Elections. Discussions on abortion.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 38 Thanksgiving. House Judiciary Committee
holds impeachment hearings. Kenneth Starr in Congress. Hillary Clinton Forum Featured in
THE TIMES of London
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 39 Republicans on the
House Judiciary Committee
recommend impeaching President Clinton. Straight party line of 21-16, setting up historic political showdown.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 40
Hillary Clinton Forum in Newsweek .
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 42 US Bombs Iraq. Bob Livingston Outed by Larry Flynn!
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 43 Bob Livingston Resigns in disgrace.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 44 Clinton Impeached on two counts by Kangaroo court. GOP Commits Political Suicide!
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 45 Clinton's Popularity Hits New High! Promises never to resign. Halts strikes on Iraq.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 47 Merry Christmas. GOP Hypcrites outed by Larry Flynn - Citizens and media begin attacking the Radical Right.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 48 Happy New Year. Larry Flynt and Tom DeLay driving GOP Agenda.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 49 Senate Impeachment Trial begins.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 50 Republicans try to smear Clinton with Danny Williams paternity suit.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 51 Senate begins Impeachment Trial. Bob Barr & Trent Lott's connection to white supremacists.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 52 Martin Luther King Day.
Clinton's State of the Union Address Brilliant Success. 77% Approval rating.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 53 GOP Self Destructs. Conservatives attack their own GOP leaders.Secret meeting with Monica.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 54 GOP Self Destructs. Pat Robertson Retreats. Bob Barr disavows the CCC.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 55 GOP Self Destructs. Larry Rockefeller's Call to Republicans.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 56 Impeachment Trial - Larry Rockefeller's call to Republicans.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 57 Impeachment Trial - Just one more week and it's over!
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 58 Teletubbies furor. Tinky Winky outed by Jerry Falwell.
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 59 President Clinton Acquitted on Both Charges!
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 60 Should Hillary run for President, Vice President or
Senator of New York?
Click here to review PAST MESSAGES on FORUM 61 Culture Wars
Click here
to review MAIN FORUM
Best messages brought forward to Main Forum
WASHINGTON, Dec. 20 — President Bill Clinton’s job approval rating reached new heights in the wake of the impeachment vote Saturday, according to the latest NBC News poll. The poll showed Clinton’s approval rating rose from 68 percent in a similar poll Tuesday to 72 percent after the House passed two articles of impeachment against him.
THE NBC POLL also found that 62 percent of the respondents said he should serve out his term — up 11 percentage points from Tuesday’s survey. The number of those who said the president should resign dropped 10 points from 44 percent to 34 percent. The poll of 510 adults had a margin of error of plus or minus 4.5 percent. Clinton also held his own in a CBS/New York Times poll conducted Saturday. Sixty-six percent of the respondents thought it would be better for the country if Clinton did not resign, compared with 69 percent before the vote. The same 661 adults were interviewed last week before the House vote and gave almost identical answers on the question of resignation. Interviewers in the CBS/New York Times poll found that 63 percent of the respondents would prefer it if a compromise, like a censure or a fine, were worked out instead of holding a trial in the Senate. However 57 percent said they thought that the Senate would not compromise on the issue and that there would be a trial. The margin of error for the CBS/New York Times poll was plus or minus 4 percentage points. After the vote, the president and his aides said they hoped to find a “constitutional and fair” means to end his predicament short of a trial in the Senate. He also vowed not to resign, pledging to keep working “until the last hour of the last day” of his term. MSNBC..
Pushing back on GOP coup d’etat
MSNBC NEWS -
by Eric Alterman
Dec. 19 — The crisis is finally upon us. President Clinton has been impeached. The Republicans have their victory. The term “high crimes and misdemeanors” has been degraded to include lying about sex. The most serious sanction in our constitutional system has been reduced to a weapon of partisan warfare.
"If the Republicans want to commit political suicide by pursuing the path that has destroyed their two most recent leaders, well then, that’s their right. But they cannot be allowed to drag down the republic with them."
The impeachment vote is being driven by the ascendant radical wing of the party that, under Tom DeLay’s guidance, controls its fund-raising. Those who dare to buck DeLay and his crusade risk inspiring a well-funded conservative challenger without any help from the national party. Those who vote his way have two years to try to make the country forget, or to hide behind the excuse that the impeachment vote was not designed to remove the president, but only to signal the seriousness of his crimes and let the Senate decide the matter.
."Now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of their Constitution." MSNBC NEWS ...MORE....
"Ousting the Hypocrites"
A superman survives in the White House
Hypocrites, there have been many
A woman who's prepared to tell
Fearing what will lie ahead
Hypocrites are evil, there's no question
The country's most resilient hero
He came to us from Arkansas
A student of Constitutional law
Still more to come from the GOP
Larry Flynt will out them all
If they do not fess up first
The Congressman she knows so well
The most "Powerful 50" of the GOP
She's urging him to confess
But he's reluctant - naturally!
She's threatened or she ends up dead
Her name is Cynthia Johnson
A journalist in Washington DC
Her email: rider@sirius.com
I have a good suggestion
That voters in 2000 do your job
The GOP will rule no more
No Deal for Censure -
Trial Better Option For President
White House officials favor a trial rather than a censure. A trial and an acquittal would spare Clinton the scathing criticism of a censure and enhance his standing while badly wounding the Republicans. A trial might be a better option because the burden of proof would be on the president’s prosecutors.
TRIAL MAY BE ONLY OPTION:
The White House has refused to publicly embrace any of the compromise
proposals put forward by former Senate Republican Leader Bob Dole and former
Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter, who have called on Clinton to admit he committed perjury.
And now, as part of its tough new political and legal strategy, some officials are suggesting that compromise might not be possible. “You cannot conclude from ... these efforts that we’re going to agree to an admission to anything that the president does not believe he did,” said one legal adviser. “It may well be that a trial is the only way to resolve this issue.”
Name: Last Visible Dog to Editors
email:
Message:
"For the greater part of 1988 we have witnessed the "Hatred Demon" "
Funny - the Democrats controlled the Congress (House and Senate) in 1988 - Another thing, I have NEVER heard of a Republican asking the MOB to go out and kill a Democrat (along with this their spouse of children). I think advocating the Murder of duly elected official and his innocent wife and children is REAL HATRED. (EDITORS: Oh come now, LVD, every party has its crazies. We won't hold you responsible for Republicans who are gay bashers, gay murderers, hate crimes, political murders and persecutions done by criminals, crazies, bigots and actors the lose their sanity if you don't hold us responsible for ours. Do we have a deal?)
"72% of the American population are scratching they heads in astonishment"
Funny - I have never seen a poll that show 72% against impeachment or removal - NEVER. The CNN spot polls of 500 people show a majority against the President being removed from office BUT all Internet poll show for 60-90% are in favor of removing Clinton from office for perjury (these poll have hundreds of thousands or participants). Looks like this shows that among intelligent people the VAST majority want Clinton removed from office and people that don't have caller ID and that have nothing better to do but sit at home waiting for telephone solicitors are against removal. (EDITORS: LVD are you getting your information for the Free Republic or something?)
"Alec Baldwin, a popular actor,"
After his murderous outburst - I think that is EX-popular actor and murderous, hate-filled Democrat. (EDITORS: We would agree with you here. Just add him to the list of murderous, hate-filled Republicans)
"Jack Valenti has fired off a letter to actor Alec Baldwin, chastising him for suggesting in a comedy bit"
Sorry, that excuse does not work - Alec Baldwin is not a comedic actor nor has he ever done comedy in the past. You make ad hominem attacks on Republicans claiming they are hate-filled - but hate-filled Liberals PROVE their hate.
"GOP's six-year witch hunt."
The only "witch hunt" going on now is the Democrat Sex Police headed by James "It's a WAHR" Carville and Larry "I think naked dead women are sexy" Flynt that are snooping through the underwear drawers of ALL Republican to see if that can find any sex-dirt to salivate over. Bill Clinton, James Carville, Larry Flynt - CALL OFF the DEMOCATE SEX POLICE and their Witch Hunt.
The Democrats have turned political and legal discourse VERY ugly. Please Democrats - stop tearing this country apart! (EDITORS: The party who started the six-year witch hunt is responsible for tearing this country apart)
-LVDName: Last Visible Dog to Editors
email:
Message:
"Angry Voters Quitting The GOP"
During the Republican Revolution of 1993 that gave us a balanced budget and welfare reform (and much more) - there were over 300 hundred elected Democrats that fled the hateful Democrat party and become Republicans. So lets see - for the Democrats to break even they need over 300 Republicans to become Democrats and so far not a single Republican has switched parties (that I know of). Americans quit the Democrat party in droves around 1993 - if the above article is true (and I am very skeptical because there has been very little time to switch parties) a handful of California Republicans switching to the Democrat party is statically insignificant. Stop the hate Democrats - stop tearing this country apart! Democrats need to learn that THEY are not the only political party in this country.
Name:
email:
Message: The Decline and Fall of Anita Hill
National Review
THE DECLINE AND FALL OF ANITA HILL
"There was little enthusiasm [in the Senate] expressed for the suggestion
…that Senators peruse as-yet unreleased material concerning other alleged
Clinton transgressions."
Like a newly activated Manchurian candidate, something deep inside me
was triggered when I read this third-to-last paragraph in today's Washington
Post story on the pending impeachment. Two of the most influential political
experiences in my life were the confirmation battles for Robert Bork and
Clarence Thomas. The Bork fiasco occurred while I was a budding
conservative in a liberal liberal arts college. The Thomas hearings -- which
were uglier than Bork's but had a better conclusion -- took place mostly while I
was in self-imposed exile teaching English in Czechoslovakia. Nevertheless, as
is often the case with such things, I found it easier to follow the story closely
from afar.
When I returned in 1992 the race for President was well under way and the
"Anita Hill effect" was much heralded. Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, it
was said, won their respective Senate seats as a backlash against the
treatment of Anita Hill. An unprecedented 46 women won seats in the House.
The election of Bill Clinton himself was, in the words of Sociologist Michael
Kimmel and so many others, "Anita Hill's Revenge."
What was Hill getting revenge for? Essentially she accused her boss of
having been a cad in the office. She says he made some lewd jokes. She says
he was inappropriately flirtatious. She says he talked about porn movies. The
suggestion that he did these things in the "sacrosanct" offices of the Equal
Employment Opportunity Commission made this behavior all the worse.
Clarence Thomas was single. So was Hill. She never accused him of
touching her. Hill was a graduate of Yale Law School. Hill followed Thomas
from job to job. She used him as a mentor and a reference.
Presented with this inconvenient fact pattern, feminists charged with
defending the President -- which is to say virtually all of them -- say it wasn't
the allegations per se, but the cover up of her story. "Her voice was silenced"
went the solemn observation. "They just don't get it!" Congresswomen yelled
as they marched on the Senate. I believe her allegations were in fact outright
lies. And, Hill herself doesn't really dispute that the allegations may not have
been literally true -- you know, as in actually happened. She will not answer
specific allegations that she perjured herself and has argued that it is his word
against hers. And if you doubt her you are a racist, a sexist, a classist, and
well, a jerk. She argued that sexual harrassment was based in adolescent
male "rites of passage." This was about the "powerlessness of women."
But now that feminists have their people in charge what is the point of
principle? Now that we have powerful women, who cares about the
"powerlessness" of others? Hell, we got ours, seems to be the answer from the
acolytes of Hillary. Those who don't are trailer trash and bimbos. Does any one
doubt that if Clinton hadn't been exposed that Anita would still be a martyr to
the old cause? In 1992 Hillary Clinton gave a speech at the American Bar
Association convention at the ceremony where Hill was presented with the
"Margaret Bent Women Lawyers Achievement Award." Hillary Clinton said,
"All women who care about equality of opportunity, about integrity and
morality in the workplace, are in Professor Hill's debt."
Where are these women now? Hell, forget those women, they got their 30
pieces of silver. Where are the women who are worried about "stifled voices"?
I am not sure secret evidence against Clinton should be released. I think we
have rules for reasons. But these women not even a decade ago said the rules
themselves were the sexist and racist progeny of rich white men trying to
protect their prerogatives. These women said the leaking of Anita Hill's
confidential interviews with the FBI were warranted because they, as in the
title of Hill's own book, were Speaking Truth to Power!
Meanwhile all of Washington knows the essentials of Jane Doe #5, the
woman whose story awaits in the Ford building on Capital Hill. Wavering
moderate Republicans were encouraged to look over the evidence. John
Conyers wailed on the House floor (as best he can considering he always
sounds like he's been shot up with sodium pentathol). Much of Washington has
known about these allegations for months. Indeed, this story was no secret to
West Coast and Hollywood feminists, considering Lisa Meyers of NBC and Matt
Drudge of, well, Matt Drudge reported it months ago. Essentially the story is
that Bill Clinton raped the woman (some versions have it that he "sexually
assaulted" her and others say he "forced himself" on her. But I will use the
succinct, pre-Clinton feminist definition of the act: "Rape is rape.") Afterwards
he intimidated her, bribed her or bribed and intimidated her into signing an
affidavit saying it didn't happen. Reportedly she has recanted that statement
and her friend(s) can corroborate the rape.
Raped.
Not made jokes about pubic hairs on a Coke can.
Raped.
Not referred to "Long Dong Silver."
Of course Clarence Thomas was the head of the EEOC, while Bill Clinton
was merely a married Attorney General of the State of Arkansas. Anita Hill was
an employee and colleague. Jane Doe #5 was merely a nurse. But the "white
men's club" of the U.S. Senate was denying Hill her voice by following white
rules for white men. Meanwhile, according to the allegation, Clinton had his
goons silence the woman according to "Little Rock" rules.
Now Jane Doe #5 may be lying. So might everyone except Monica
Lewinsky, who had the good sense to keep a little bit of Bill Clinton to
remember him by. But where are the women shouting "we don't make this
stuff up!"?
Feminists and fellow travelers like Geraldo (who at least admits he has
acted "presidential" in his personal sex life), Richard Cohen, Tony Lewis,
Frank Rich, Maxine Waters, Richard Ben-Veniste, Gloria Steinhem, and many,
many more all decry Bill Clinton's loss of privacy. All of them thought Ken
Starr's subpoena of a bookstore's records was straight out of 1984. And yet
virtually all of these people either argued for or acquiesced in the prying into
Bob Packwood's diary because he was accused of behavior somewhere
between Thomas's and Clinton's. Is there anything more invasive than
plumbing someone's diary? I believe in those "white man's" rules, though I do
so because I don't think they're just for white men. But you can't be a selective
Hun. I will pillage and destroy here, but not here. If you don't believe those
laws are sacrosanct, than you are a rank hypocrite and opportunist if you
smash or invoke them selectively. Feminist can now be heard revering the
constitutional process. All of a sudden, voices should be stifled. All of a
sudden, maybe we shouldn't be speaking too much truth to power.
I think if Jane Does Nos. 1-8 want to come forward they should be allowed to
without intimidation. I think that Clinton's record is such that the possibility of
intimidation should be looked into. But if they don't want to come forward
because the offense is not great enough in their eyes or the price is too high,
so be it.
But good Lord, how can anyone ever take anyone who waxes pious about
Anita Hill ever again? At best the response to such exhortations should be a
derisive laugh, at worst a smack across the face with a semi-frozen flounder.
Jonah Goldberg can be reached at JonahEmail@aol.com
J. Goldberg
Updated 12/30/98 2:00PM
Name:
email:
Message: AL GORE announces: 'Severe Winter Cold Blast Sure Sign of Global Cooling'
(C)linton(N)ews(N)etwork From the Rose Garden, bundled in a Parka, President of Vice, Albert 'in a can' Gore announced solemnly "...this is a global crisis. We should all be afraid, very afraid."
"We are headed for a new ice age, as evidenced by the severe winter storms blasting our nation with very low temperatures. Soon, our rivers will turn to ice, our lakes will become icebergs, water will be scarce, and our crops will no longer grow on the frozen tundra of what was once a fertile earth. And its all because of these darned Republicans who keep cutting the budget. We need more funds, and we need them NOW, to find out the causes of this serious serious Global Cooling that will soon overtake our planet."
"Pretty soon, the hated rightwing will be burning churches for more than just hate, they'll have to do it to keep warm!" added House Representative Maxine Walters.
Pushing Ms. Walters aside and grabbing the microphone, Rep. Barney Frank blurted "Gimme three minish! Three minish! Make it four! Look, what ish it going to take before we shee the truth? Ish cold! Do I have to shpell it out for you? What the Preshident of Vish has shaid, and shaid sho well... we are approaching a dishastroush global cooling and I don't have any fluffy footshiesh to keep my tootiesh warm! Thish ish a crishish!"
END OF NEWS FEED ------- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASH...er RELEASE.
myself
-LVD
Name: Editors
email: editors@hillary.org
Message:
Happy New Year to All Our Participants
May 1999 bring continued peace and prosperity. May the "Demon
of Hatred" be exorcised from the minds, hearts and souls of those members of Congress whom
this evil Demon has possessed.
Name: barb
email: bf6192@aol.com
Message:br Hillary has dealt with
Healthcare reform, First Lady demands, Parent of a teenager/college student, National
scandals that never seem to end, and I must say Hillary that you have handled it with stregth, class
and dignity that I couldnt muster going through simply the latter. I dont know how you do it,
but you are my idol for those reasons. Run for President, I will campaign knowing that the country
would be in the most nurturing way as well as by a woman who keeps her priorities (and the countries)first.
No dallying in spare time, what spare time?????
Name: Gloria Hernandez
email:
Message: Mock the president and the first lady all you want, but he will win again because the people are with him and the Republicans are evil, just look at the songs they write and the messages they put on this board. The Republicans are totally radical, as radical as I have ever seen a party in this country. The are crazy as loons. Look at them folks. Do these look like sane messages? No they are all nuts. Enjoy it while you can because you will never be in power again. We will never forget.
Name: SF Liberals to Clinton Haters
email:
Message: You guys are just jealous of sexy Bill. He's getting his jollies and you are not. If you were getting the good stuff you would be too busy to hate Clinton. Ha, ha, ha, you don't even know what a "sexual relationship" is. You think it's what Bill did with Monica. You honestly believe that!!! Even Monica didn't believe that! You guys must have a pathetic sex life if you think that's the definition of "sexual relationship."
No wonder you are sooooo consumed with hatred for Bill. You spend all your time hating him because you are not getting any and can't understand why. You still stuck with this stupid definition that a "sexual relationshio" is what Bill did to Monica, even though both of them have said it was not a "sexual relationship." But you don't know better so you can't even imagine what they are trying to tell you. Stuck! Stuck! Stuck! Stuck! Poor Republicans.
Stop hating and start loving. Love is where you will discover a HIGHER UNDERSTANDING OF SEX, then you will UPGRADE YOUR SEX LIVES, and NEVER, but never, never, again believe that what Bill and Monica did was a "sexual relationship."
Monica knew it wasn't a "sexual relationship." She even said so on those infamous tapes to Linda Tripp. Even a young, giddy Democratic intern knew that wasn't a sexual relationship -- that she was just "servicing" Bill. Poor Republicans, you don't even know the difference between sex & service! Your poor wives. I feel so sorry for them having to put up with your selfish definition of a sexual relationship. Go home and start loving your mates instead of ramming your boner down their throats. Love is where it is. Anyone can learn if they try to make their lovers happy instead of being so selfish. Come on give it a shot. After a few weeks of loving, and I mean REAL love, the world will start to sparkle and you will have no desire and no time to hate Bill anymore.
Name: Bugs Bunny
email:
Message: Thats right Gloria 72% of the voters will not forget the loons, the
Republicans they are right up there with George Wallace, Joseph McCarthy, and of
course the screwball of all time Russ Limbaugh. It is a tough job to run and
govern this great country, everyone is an individual. Us Americans don't want
hateful vengeful people the Republicans as we have seen by their followers
messing up America with their hate. We are a decent merciful people who love to
see the underdog win. The Republicans, well at least this bunch in the House
of Representatives will get booted out every 2 years starting in the year
2000. Make this a resolution to all of us the voters the true bosses, don't vote Republican
in the national elections for at least 8 years. Let God Bless this Country from sea to shinging sea.
God give us the wisdom to see hypocrites when they reveal themselves. Lets keep
religion out of Govenment.
Name: Bugs Bunny
email:
Message: Thats right Gloria 72% of the voters will not forget the loons, the
Republicans they are right up there with George Wallace, Joseph McCarthy, and of
course the screwball of all time Russ Limbaugh. It is a tough job to run and
govern this great country, everyone is an individual. Us Americans don't want
hateful vengeful people the Republicans as we have seen by their followers
messing up America with their hate. We are a decent merciful people who love to
see the underdog win. The Republicans, well at least this bunch in the House
of Representatives will get booted out every 2 years starting in the year
2000. Make this a resolution to all of us the voters the true bosses, don't vote Republican
in the national elections for at least 8 years. Let God Bless this Country from sea to shinging sea.
God give us the wisdom to see hypocrites when they reveal themselves. Lets keep
religion out of Govenment.
Name: Bugs Bunny
email:
Message: Oops sorry folks. for the duplicate
Name: Leo J. Hatem
email: leoh@gateway.net
Message: God bless You and your Family. We believe in you. You have my vote forever.
You have more class and character in your little pinky than all those
pompous boobs put together.My heart and prayers are with you.
Name: Big Bugs Fan
email:
Message: Hey Bugs... We Love you Bugs! It's so nice to know healthy, happy, wonderful people who love this country and honor our institutions. This is indeed a great country and it's people like you who keep it great, not hatemongers who try and destroy everything we cherish. The Republicans in Congress need an Exorcist to rid them of their demons. Do you know a good Exorcist? When the Senate convenes in January maybe we need to bring in a few Exorcists. They could throw bones, do chants and pass around the Hustler magazine.
I must say I am very proud of the American people. They were not fooled. They saw the hypocrisy. They saw the GOP consumed with hatred. Obsessed, not with running this country, but with destroying the presidency. The crazy fools thought they could topple the presidency.
I don't know if you feel the same way as I do, but I no longer identify with the GOP as Americans. They seem more like insurgents from the Taliban determined to topple our form of government and replace it with their own crazy morality. They are possessed with demons from some weird religion.
Will they suddenly wake up one day and be shocked to discover the damage they have done to this country, and how much two-thirds of the people are disgusted with them, or will they never have an awakening? They are so possessed with hatred that no matter what we do or say they cannot stop. Just like drug addicts, they won't listen and can't get the message until they hit bottom. Where is "bottom" for the Republicans? How far down will they go before somebody gets up in Congress and says: "This is enough - we are going insane."
Name: Zippy the Wonder Slug for "Bugs"
email:
Message:
"Lets keep religion out of Govenment." (actually it's "Government")
Just for fun, I'll ask; if we "keep religion out of Government" as you suggest, then what
does one use to determine what is right or wrong?
If one cannot determine what is right and what is wrong how can he lead? (Clinton
being the case in point here) Bugs, religion is what separates man from the animals.
Religion is
what makes us special. Religion is belief that we are not the center of the universe.
Without religion I could slit your throat for any reason and
feel no remorse because there is no wrong or right. No one to answer to. I can run
from and defeat mortals but I cannot escape from the
wrath of God. Ever. Religion is God. Or more accurately, God's manifestation
in our society. if you really want to "keep religion out of Government"
as you say I suggest you study the USSR's history, the Nazi's, Communist China and
other places where religion is
kept "out of Government". You might also try studying practically anything our
forefathers wrote about what they felt would be required
to sustain this fragile system. Nearly every single one of them was white, male and
Christian. Clinton is a pig (as a person). Fortunately the
"vast majority" of Americans agree with me on this point. Unfortunately,
I'm in the minority (of those with phones and time to respond to "polls") in my belief
that that alone makes him unfit for office. Toss in those unfortunate
perjury and obstruction of justice things and frankly the man should be taken out and
shot for the common good. (But that would be "wrong" according to my religious beliefs.)
But I'll settle for the Impeachment. We won. You lost. History will forever refer to
Bill Clinton as "the second president to be impeached" and with a bit
of luck he'll have a special place in the history books as "the first to be removed from
office" kicking and screaming all the way...
On another subject:
Name: Minglewood
email: Predictions
Message: Today is the day to do this.
Here is my prediction. Hillary will divorce Bill and all of the Liberals, Socialists, Communists and Democrats will align themselves behind her. Bill will be thrown out of office, write a book, make a few speeches and start-up his drug and alcohol problem again. Hillary will be on the Gore ticket as Vice President. Al will either be impeached or meet an early demise and all of you people will get exactly what you want: Hillary will be President of the United States. The only problem is that once Hillary is out of the White House, she will be indited for several criminal acts and everything will come crashing down. Have a Happy New Year.
Name: Jayne Coleman
email: zoporah@aol.com
Message: Dear Mrs. Clinton,
I am not like a lot of these people who choose to make fun our President and his family. I would
like to say it must be very difficult for you and your daughter at this time of your life.
I feel sorry that the reporters are so mean and hateful along with the American people.
Yes, I too am an American, and very proud to be born here. I pray for you and your family,
I hope the next year is an easier kinder one for you.
You are a great lady, and a very strong person. I hope the President will continue
to be our President and the world will find forgiviness for him.
I just wanted to let you know that there are some of here who still believe in him, but,
most of all we believe you, Hillary Clinton.
You probably don't get to read all your mail but, I sure hope who ever does read this lets you know ,
I think you are Great person.
Sincerely,
Jayne Coleman
Name: Editors to Zippy the Wonder Slug
email:
Message: Happy New Year to you Zippy. You are always welcome on this board as our honored guest.
RELIGION:
From the beginning of time man has had religious experiences which, over time, have evolved into more sophisticated concepts as we personally evolve.
The problem with introducing religion into government are many. First of all whose religion should we choose? Even if we could all agree on one specific religion, which would never happen; but even if that happened, governments tend to corrupt things, and need I tell what has happened when governments do that with religion. More wars, persecution, and murders have been committed in the name of religion than any other factor.
For instance, if you applied Christianity to the farce that has taken place this year, then you would have to conclude that what our GOP Congress is doing is not the way of Jesus. Jesus forgave the thief, the prostitute, and even forgave those who crucified him, but he did not have compassion for the hypocrites. They were the lowest of the low. What happened to "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus applied that to an adulteress. Why has the so-called Religious Right of the GOP not applied that to Clinton? The reason is that they have corrupted their own Christianity and believe that lying under oath is worse than following the way of Jesus. They cannot apply the tenets of their own
Name: Minglewood
email:
Message: After reading my prediction, I feel bad. It was mean. I apologize to Bill, Hillary, Al and those on the board.
Name: Editors to Minglewood
email:
Message: We accept your apology and honor your courage and code of ethics. However, we DID like your prediction about Hillary becoming President. Can we keep that part and throw out the rest?
Name: Last Visible Dog to SFLiberals
email:
Message:
Liberals can never get it right - Monica said "We did not have sex" but she absolutely thought she was having a relationship of a sexual nature with Clinton - not to mention EVEN Bill admitted to an "improper relationship of a sexual nature" with Monica - Liberals are hopeless when it comes to facts. Jeepers, judging by the actions of the new spokesmen for the Democrat party - Larry Flynt - it looks like Republican are getting a hell of lot more of "IT" then Democrat (poor Democrats, always the losers). You liberals crack me up…
Name: SFLiberals to LVD
email:
Message: Well then, if Monica said she didn'g have "sex" and you agree that she didn't have "sex" then you must also admit that Bill didn't have "sex" This is a very fuzzy point, and based on this very fuzzy point the GOP are trying to pull down the whole republic. Can't you see how insane this whole fiasco is?
Name: Last Visible Dog to SFLiberals
email:
Message:
"Poor Republicans, you don't even know the difference between sex & service! Your poor wives." Excuse me! My wife does not service me- we are in love. If you Democrats are into degrading women to the point that they are just receptacles for the servicing genitalia - that is your trip (though I think it pretty sick). I guess Republicans respect women more and therefore they don't ask for "service". BTW - my wife and I believe that oral sex is indeed sex whomever is giving or receiving and I would never degrade my wife to the degree that I would expect "service" out of her. You Democrats are some sick puppies.
Name: Last Visible Dog to SFL
email:
Message: " GOP are trying to pull
down the whole republic." Do you believe that our "Whole Republic" depends on Bill Clinton -
that is scary! So our republic ends is two years no matter what? Bill Clinton
lied under oath - he committed perjury. If we allow our presidents to commit perjury our
republic is in REAL danger. Sexual and Sex didn't have same meaning to Monica but it is irrelevant
- Clinton was given a description of sex acts and he swore if had never done any of them -
Monica's testimony contradicts his statement - because if Clinton's lie, Paula Jones was denied a
fair trial - this is why Clinton WAS impeached.
Name: Last Visible Dog to Bugs
email:
Message: Bugs -Get your facts straight then post! George Wallace was a Democrat. Joseph McCarthy was correct for the most part (there were communists trying to mess with our country) and it is Rush not Russ and he is an entertainer. Lets keep religion out of Govenment. Please tell that to the Democrats. How about the Clinton/Gore fund raiser in the Buddhist Temple or the Democrat pep rally/fund raiser Clinton held in a Baltimore Baptist Church last November (people for the separation of church and state are after Clinton for this one) where - from the church pulpit - Clinton told the church members how to vote (while speaking of God) and then took money from them. A little advice (Bugs, Editors, Liberal in general): don't worry about the speck in your neighbors eye when you have a log in you own.
Name: Last Visible Dog to the born-again Editors
email:
Message: Jesus forgave the thief, the prostitute, and even forgave those who crucified him, but he did not have compassion for the hypocrites. Jesus also taught the one can be forgiven only after one confesses their sins and repents (turns away) from the sin. The hypocrites Jesus spoke of were people that sinned and have not repented or those that lie about their sins (to God or man) or those that got to church but don't feel the law apply to them - while I will not speak for Jesus, it looks like Bill Clinton fits the description of the hypocrites that Jesus condemned - don't get me wrong, that is between Jesus and Bill Clinton. An important point is the Congress follows the our laws and constitution not the laws of God (even though our law are based on the Judeo-Christian teachings of God). Clinton lies and continues to lie - he says he didn't do anything that was technically wrong. I see not real confession (the "I did nothing technically wrong" confess doesn't really work) and I see not repentance - I think it is a bit of a stretch to think Jesus would be on Clinton's side (you'll have to ask Jesus himself to get a definitive answer). Editors - Jesus also taught that one risks hell-fire if they go around telling people what Jesus does and does not think "Judge not, lest yet be judged" - Jesus said he will impart harsh punishment to those that try to act as Jesus' surrogate judge. As for your "he who is without sin" comment - be very careful about taking statements out of context - Jesus also said there will be no forgiveness for those who do not confess and repent (while I do not speak for Jesus - it doesn't look to me like Clinton has confessed or repented)
Name: Last Visible Dog
email:
Message: ...next time I will proofread BEFORE posting....
Name: Zippy the Wonder Slug to the Editors
email:
Message:
"The reason is that they have corrupted their own Christianity and believe that lying under oath is worse than following the way of Jesus."
Huh? Since when did we ask our leaders to be clergy? This is a nation of laws. These laws must be created with an appropriate set of morals
but once the laws are established they must be upheld and applied to everyone equally! The law making it "wrong" to lie under oath
(a.k.a. Thou shalt not bear false witness...) is a good law. People are in jail right now for breaking that law in precisely the same manner
that Clinton did. Clinton chose to break the law, several times. He must held responsible for his actions. The oath Clinton swore to uphold the
laws of this nation and the oath he swore to tell the truth are not issues for any church. They are issues for courts and since the courts
cannot touch him until he leaves office he must answer to Congress and the Senate (it's the law according to our Constitution).When will you
guys stop screaming about the Evil Corrupt Christian Right Wing Extremists and start complaining the real enemy; those nasty Law abiding
extremists.
Name: Poll Party
email:
Message:
Hillary! Heard you smacked ole' Willie up side the head!?! All I can say is "Go Girl!"
Religion is the manifestation of God (or by many other names to identify the source of our being), however we receive revelations from God in many different ways. If we are tuned into God our Spiritual Paths are clear to us. The longer we follow that path the more we become aware that others a have Spiritual Paths too, which are valid for them, but not necessarily valid for you or me. We must respect that if we are in tune with the law of the Universe.
Name: Mary Jo K.
email:
Message: Saw an interesting bumper sticker: ONE MORE WHORE AND WE'VE GOT GORE!
Name: Don A. Hill
email: dhill12041@aol.com
Message: Dear Hillary, America needs "YOU" and other women like you in positions of "LEADERSHIP" whether it be in boardrooms of busines' or the political arena. Being a male I'm sorry to say that we have dropped the ball misserably when it comes to leadership for all the American people. The Republican right wing has got to go. They are selfish bigots that have no interest in the needs of women, children, and common working folks. If you will run for President I'LL VOTE FOR YOU.
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: Iam a loonie
Name: Poll Party
email:
Message: I am fool and a loonie
Name: Christian Coalition
email:
Message: Really the loons. Heil Jesse Helms and Heil Pat Robertson bend on your knees No more separation of government and Religion.
Name: Last Visible Dog
email:
Message: Boy do I have a big mouth.
Name: Joe the Mama
email:
Message: Your mama is calling you. Or in other words stuff it.
Name: President Clinton
email:
Message: Happy New Year to everybody. Lets hope we can make a deal like good ole Monte Hall used to say.
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: Now Everyone get off the computer and have fun after all it's New Years Eve See you all next year same site. same problem. It just wont go away. but TONIGHT IS NEW YEARS EVER HAVE FUN!!!!
Name:
email:
Message:
Name: Stoner®
email:
Message:
Dudes! Drudge says that all Hell is about to break loose in DC. We all (Conservatives, that is) hope he gets nailed for the really awful stuff he did rather than for TailGate. Maybe this is the story we have been waiting for! "Clinton's illegitimate mulatto love child" is here! His approval ratings will surely top out at over 80 percent for this one! Our first "black" president! What in God's name is going on here??! (Note to self: reduce prozac dosage for one week to see if hallucinations continue or decrease...) Where the Hell is Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him?! 9-1-1! 9-1-1! Aaaarrrgggghhhh.....
Sorry, couldn't resist the whole "drama" thing. Happy New Year!
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: The sickos dont get it yet, decent people always win. There are just more of us. sorry LVD and your repititious poll garbage. The American people like Clinton. And any wonder what good remedies do you the Republicans and some of their misquided followers suggest we do to better our great country. Zero. Thats right nada or nothing but hate and stupid talk. Would the Americans to choose you right wing radical and the loons we would have anarchy in this country. Granted this country is not perfect, who of us is. And yes we are a country of of laws good and bad. But, we as a nation have been blessed to have great leaders. especially in times of crisis. But here is the paradox, under freedom of speech you have the right to speak up, but can you offer constructive critcism? I have a complaint too. Why doesn't the government do something about exhorbitant high prescription drug prices. The prices for medicine is getting too darn high.
Name:
email:
Message:
Happy New Year to all Democrats and Republicans alike from ControlGirl!
Name: Last Visible Dog to Father Time (yeah right)
email:
Message:
Father Time - it is not ME that is talking about polls - can you liberals ever get your facts straight?
Since you are speaking of polls - about 80% believe Clinton lied under oath and Clinton have the lowest personal/ethical rating of any president of this century
Why doesn't the government do something about exhorbitant high prescription drug prices.
Because this in not a communist country - why do you liberals always look to the government to solve every problem - it you want communism/socialism you should move to Russia - opps, Russia flushed their communist/socialist government down the dumper because it didn't work - guess you could move the Cuba it is one of the few places were communism still is in place. Why don't you go to the companies that make the drugs - or better yet, start a company or support the competition.
The cost of drugs is high because of the cost of research and insurance. Thanks to the out of control tort system in this control all medically related costs are about twice what they should be - lawyers like Hillary find to easy to prey on the medical industry (remember the Hillary Health Care panel - nothing but lawyers not a doctor in the bunch). Research cost money - without research many of the drugs that cost so much would not even exist - somebody has to pay for it. Ask Hillary and Bill why they have canned all tort reform legislation.
Using other people's names/monikers is a sign of low self-esteem, low education level, and extreme lack of creativity - but these traits make you a textbook liberal and a quintessential Democrat.
Name: Last Visible Dog to Father Time
email:
Message:
And any wonder what good remedies do you the Republicans and some of their misquided followers suggest we do to better our great country. Zero. Thats right nada or nothing but hate and stupid talk.
What guano!. The Republicans: ended the cold war, deregulated private industry (which is why we have such a strong economy and have had this long of a recovery - the Reagan/Bush recovery has been going on for 8 years, it started two years before Clinton was elected - don't take my word for it, check the economic numbers!), made congress live under the rules they the create (the Democrats actually instituted a law that said people in congress don't have to live under that laws they make- I guess the Democrats thought they would control congress forever), balanced the budget, and reformed welfare (to name a few). I throw the question back to you - the Democrats do nothing right now except spew hate speech (can you say Maxine Waters or James Carville or Larry Flynt?), defend the lair-in-chief, and sniff through the underwear drawer of Republicans like out of control voyeurs looking for sex dirt to salivate over. What have the Democrats done to better our country? I see NOTHING! BTW - Clinton has not push a bill in over 2 years. What have the Democrat done? Come on, WE are waiting….
Name:
email:
Message:
NEW YEAR'S EVE NIGHTMARE [FOR CLINTON]? THURSDAY DEC 31, 1998 23:29 ET-- Just hours before 1999 is ushered in, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned, the White House was bracing for possible shocking and new revelations that could rival 1998's scandal scars. "The president has been alerted," reports one insider.
New details being learned...
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: Liberals invented Social Security. Communists kept half of Eastern Europe. Liberals invented Unemployment Compensation and guaranteed bank deposits Child labor laws and so many other good things. So LVD what did the Republicans do huh. They were Isolationists from 1933-1940. Pick on a good President now. What have they done besmirch our good name abroad with their witch hunt toward President Clinton and his gracious wife who we the American voted for twice and now support by 72%. Oh yes Republicans threw stones at President Clinton those saints oh yes with their twisted halos cried "Hey, we are stuck with this Conservative Crap, so lets destroy our country, First we discredit the Democrats and their Leaders (the same trick Hitler and his thugs did in Germany) and then we will take over all three branches of the US Government." Good try. Conservatives, you are only human and so Burton fooled around so did Mary Bonao and Livingston the little angel and how about MR Perfect Henry Hyde(he stole another man's wife and is now alone). Hypocrites. Cheat and lie is okay as long as it not under oath. Malarkey. Liars and mudslingers who got caught in their web of conceit. Now the "immoral majority are at it again, but you know what new elections are coming up lol and quess who votes, yes the 72% of the voters who the Republicans thought were stupid. Every day the Democrats gain new voters. So LVD stay on here and tell your side which is Baloney. Tyrants forget one thing is this country, Freedom of the Press.
Name:
email:
Message: Humiliation
Washington Times Alan Dershowitz, the Harvard law professor, says those who favor impeachment represent "the forces of evil, genuine evil."
The New Republic accused Rep. Henry J. Hyde, Illinois Republican and chairman of the Judiciary Committee, of succumbing to "megalomania." Rep. Jesse L. Jackson Jr. charged that Republicans were "impeaching 130 years of opportunity and hope for every American."
Why are liberals saying such things? David Gelernter, the New York Post columnist, thinks he understands.
"Democrats love to talk about the rule of law, and how the Constitution applies to everyone, and how justice must be served. They enjoy lashing out against powerful men who twist the law around their little fingers, and big-shot executives who outmaneuver justice with the help of their craven staffers, and male bosses who dominate female subordinates without even trying and then chuckle about it. Democrats love to explain how government prosecutors must attack injustice no matter what, and how arrogant white males must be brought to heel, and how the legal system must do what is right, period, and to hell with public opinion," Mr. Gelernter observed.
"And now they are forced to listen as Republicans solemnly (while attempting to keep straight faces) repeat the whole list right back at them. The president humiliated his wife and Monica Lewinsky, but that's nothing compared to the humiliation wrought by the Sadist-in-Chief on the likes of Alan Dershowitz, Jesse Jackson Jr. and the entire Democratic Party.
"No Republican has ever humiliated the Democrats the way President Clinton has. He has made an entire political movement look ridiculous -- and Democrats know it, even if the public doesn't. They won't admit it, but it hurts."
1 January 1999
Inside Politics
Name:
email:
Message:
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: Isnt it about time to expose how the Christian Coalition subverted the Republican Party and forced the Moderate Republicans to vote with them. They are brazen these thugs but you know what History is littered with tyrants So now ever one is gonna I hope, get rid of this "immoral majority". Freedom of Speech. Freedom to worship who weplease. Separation of Government and Religion. Yes America, home of the brave and free to speak up against these bad people.
Name: Father Time to LVD
email:
Message: Harry Truman a democrat stood up to the communists when Reagan was a movie star JFK put a man in space and helped keep us Strong. Reagon increased the US Debt from 1 Trillion to 4 Trillion Dollars. President Clinton balanced the budget. President Reagon had memory loss over Iran Gate and had Voodo Economics. Wake up LVD. Quit lying to yourself.
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: Remember LVD, David Stockman, Reagon's budget person quit because he saw that Reagon was using Voodo Economics.
Name: Saddam Hussein
email: Saddam@IraqRules.gov
Message: Dear American Imperialist Zionist Pigs: My wish for you on this new year is another 10,000 years of Bill Clinton and his bimbos.
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: I see that someone is using my esteemed name falsely. Note bene: this is a typical play from the Carville/Democratic Natl Comm. handbook. Oh! Oh! Oh! Wasn't it our less esteemed president who was saying "let us end the politics of personal destruction" just last week. Ah, yet another Clinton lie.
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: I love Sadam. I also like to spew hatred. God forgive me cause I have sinned.
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: How was your day so far.
Name: Last Visible Dog to Father Time
email:
Message:
Liberals invented Social Security.Isn't the thing that is broken and Clinton says "must be fixed" - OK, Democrats created a faulty Social
Communists kept half of Eastern Europe.
What's the point - are you pining for the good ole days of communism?
guaranteed bank deposits
The Federal Reserve Act had bipartisan support!
Child labor laws
Child labor laws started as state laws and MANY of the states were controlled by Republicans - the Walsh-Healey Act did pass while a Democrats was president. But remember - Teddy Roosevelt and other progressive Republicans started many of the reforms that were adopted by the Democrats.
Funny, all the Democrat achievements you site happened more then 50 years ago - thanks for proving my point
They were Isolationists from 1933-1940.
Check you history books - so was the bloody president (a Democrat) - I believe the House, Senate, and Presidency were all controlled by Democrats in that time frame. The policy of Isolationism was instituted by Democrats
What have they done besmirch our good name
Our name has been besmirched by a president that lies under oath and lies on television to all Americans and the world. Check the foreign media - they are NOT making fun of Republicans, they are making fun of one man - Bill Clinton. Clinton is an international joke. As for making the US look bad - Clinton terrorist-like attacks (operation "Divert Attention" is August and operation "Save Willy" in December) has just about restarted the cold war - Russia pulled their ambassador, All of the Arab world now condemns the US and burns Clinton is effigy in their streets - France, China, and Russia have turned against us and are supporting lifting the sanctions on Iraq. Clinton gets credit for all the current US besmirchment.
President Clinton and his gracious wife who we the American voted for twice and now support by 72%
I have NEVER seen a poll that shows 72% voter support of Clinton - his job approval have been that high but at the same time his person rating is lower than Nixon's and 80% of Americans think he lied under oath. All Internet polls show 60-90% disapproval of Clinton and 60-90% in support of removal from office - there are the people that ACTUALLY vote. Last election - right in the heat of the impeachment - the American people participated in the only REAL poll and said they wanted the Republicans to control everything (that was being voted on) - the Republican won in EVERY national category - the people spoke loud and clear.
President Clinton and his gracious wife
…whom he constantly embarrasses nationally by repeatedly cheating on her even after he went on national television and said he would not do it again. Hillary made a fool out of herself by trying to blame Monica on a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy from Mars. Hillary said in January if the acusations were true then it was a VERY SERIOUS matter - well, they were proven to be true but Hillary has done an about-face (can you say hypocrisy?)
Oh yes Republicans threw stones at President Clinton
Guano - the Republicans uphold the Constitution and the Laws of our country - the Democrats worship at the alter of Clinton (don't drink the Clinton Kool-Aid)
"Hey, we are stuck with this Conservative Crap, so lets destroy our country, First we discredit the Democrats and their Leaders (the same trick Hitler and his thugs did in Germany) and then we will take over all three branches of the US Government."
That "Conservative Crap" = balanced budget, no cold war, and a growing economy. You liberal are obsessed with bring up the name of the most infamous left-wing extremist of our century - Adolph Hitler.
Burton fooled around so did Mary Bonao and Livingston
You liberals are obsessed with other people's sex lives - maybe you should focus more on your own sex life. Good thing those Republicans didn't lie under oath and obstruction justice or they would be in as much trouble as Clinton and would be facing removal.
now the "immoral majority are at it again
If liberals were force to not use ad hominem attacks - could liberals say anything - would it just be massive liberal silence (not a bad idea)?
-LVDName: Editor
email: editor@hillary.org
Message: Three Cheers for Father Time - Keep up the good work!
Thank you, ControlGirl, another honored guest on this forum, for your colorful New Year Greeting.
Despite everything negative that happened this year with the Monica scandal, a lot of good things came out of it, too, and still destined to come out as time goes on. It still amazes me that 72% of the American people were not fooled by the hype from some of the media and the radical right. I'm so proud of them because it gives us confidence in the future. Given access to the free flow of information Democracy works!
The scandal boosted the validity of the Internet and that's a good thing.
The scandal got us thinking and discussing morality, adultery etc., in a healthy, way through a free exchange of information.
Even though we don't agree we have a better understanding about how the other side thinks.
The scandal gave Hillary Clinton the opportunity to rise above it all and attain such presidential stature as be seriously considered as our first female president.
Bill Clinton has become the most popular man in the world.
Hillary Clinton has become the most popular woman in the world.
There is so much more... I invite others on this board to let us know the good they think has come that has come out of this scandal, or they predict will come out of the scandal. "From the ashes the Phoenix rises."
Name: Last Visible Dog to FT
email:
Message:
Reagon increased the US Debt from 1 Trillion to 4 Trillion Dollars
Check your history…how many Reagan budgets were pasted? ZERO, ZIP, NADA! Every budget in the Reagan era was created by your beloved Democrats - sure Reagan could have veto the Democrat budgets but the Democrats were the architects of the big deficit budgets. In Clintons first two years with a Democrat House and Senate he created the largest tax increase in the history of this country and these budgets yielded 200 billion a year deficits through the year 2000 (those deficits are larger that any of the Reagan era Democrat Budget deficits). When the Republicans took over Congress vowing to balance the budget Clinton is ON RECORD saying "balancing the budget before the year 2000 will destroy our economy". The first balanced budget in 30 years was created solely by the Republicans and VETOED by Clinton - Clinton only signed the Republican balanced budget after polls showed support. The Republicans balance the budget not Clinton. The Democrats created each and EVERY big deficit budget of the 80's - THAT'S THE FACTS JACK!
. President Reagon had memory loss over Iran Gate
You liberals have problems with history. The Democrats staged a true "witch hunt" against Reagan and spent 7 years - nearly twice as long as Starr - and spent nearly twice as much as Starr and come up with nothing but baseless accusations (and a politically motivated indictment two weeks before the Bush/Clinton election - it was thrown out as baseless AFTER the election). Sorry liberals - you spent 7 years and tens of millions of dollars and were unable to prove ANYTHING. Get your facts straight! The Iran/Congra witch hunt was a true witch hunt because it yielded 0 convictions and 0 impeachable offenses. Starr on the other hand has 17 convictions and the president has been IMPEACHED (a perfect record?).
No lies here - I am just citing history!
Name: Last Visible Dog to Editors
email:
Message:
"It still amazes me that 72% of the American people were not fooled by hype from some of the media and the radical right."
This is incorrect. This is not true. There is no poll to support this statement. More liberal wishful thinking. Stick to the facts.
If Father Time The Editor are not the same person you must share a single brain because you have the same vocabulary
-LVDName: Last Visible Dog
email:
Message:
Bill Clinton has become the most popular man in the world.
You mean the biggest joke in the world - there is a difference.
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: With the exception of Malaysia. Most European Nations and their press did not like the Republican controlled Congresss's verdict. Too bad LVD. Thats right we are not a hateful vengeable religious group like the Republicans loons in Congress. And you LVD when you are spewing hate and lies you help to get the percentage up higher.
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: You know, I could not scarcely care less what Europe and the rest of the near third world thinks about America. How many times have we generous Americans pulled their effete asses out of the fire? The rest of the world has a lot to learn from America.
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: Check out the Drudge TV show tonight! It's gonna be another episode of "Ma! Ma! Where's my Pa?" But, don't worry libs, Hillary will understand and forgive him (again). I'll tell you...that's semen stain on Monica's dress was the "shot" heard 'round the world.
Name: Last Visible Dog to Father Time
email:
Message:
"With the exception of Malaysia. Most European Nations and their press did not like the Republican controlled Congresss's verdict."
Jeepers Father Time, you are a VERY confused and poorly informed liberal (or shall I say - standard liberal) - I hate to break this to you but Malaysia is not a European country. Next question, do you actually follow the Malaysian press or are you just "making it up"? As for the world thinking Clinton is a joke I have seen many different international news services making fun of Clinton. Could you give us a link to the foreign press that is speaking poorly of the Republicans and praising Bill "weasel boy" Clinton? I have never seen this and would like to be enlightened.
"Thats right we are not a hateful vengeable religious group like the Republicans loons in Congress."
What was that I said earlier - if liberals could not spew ad hominem attacks they would not be able to say anything. I find it funny that the liberal call the other side hateful when ALL the hateful, mean-spirited, ad hominem attacks come from the liberals. Like I said - ponderous.
What is vengeable - anything like vegetable?
And you LVD when you are spewing hate and lies you help to get the percentage up higher.
What is my "percentage"? and why do I want it up higher? Like I have say to all liberal attackers - SHOW me were I lied don't just say it - an idle accusation is meaningless and merely an ad hominem attack.
I take back what I said earlier - I was wrong! Father Time and the Editors can't be the same person because the Editors have a much better command of the English language and I am pretty darn sure the Editors know that Malaysia is not in Europe - BTW Malaysia is in Southeast Asia in the South China Sea -beside Singapore.
-LVDName: digi
email:
Message: It is not appropriate for someone in high levels of leadership responsibility to lie. A known liar, a known deceiver, a known hypocrite, one who can go on an Easter Sunday with a Bible in hand, ostensibly to worship the resurrected Christ in the church and then return to the White House for an illicit sexual relationship—that’s hypocrisy of the worst kind. One who has confessed to a hundred affairs, most of which have been successfully covered up. This is a pattern of deception, life-long. Such a person does not attract around him honest people. What you eventually have, is corruption everywhere in association with that deceiver. Liars always protect themselves at the expense of others. Liars want to crush those who would accuse them. They despise them. They despise those who bear the truth. They despise those who speak honestly. They despise those with integrity. Whenever a poll is taken, there is high approval. When people on the street are interviewed they say, "We don’t care what he does. We don’t care about any of that. We think he’s done a good job," I’m not surprised that the President’s approval rating is so high—because the people who approve of what he does are the people who do what he does. That’s mostly the way our nation is. If we have a 70% approval rate, then 70% of Americans approve of that because they practice what Bill practices...lying, deception, fornication, adultery, or whatever. Bill Clinton is the man for this culture. He is a reflection of the mores of this society. He is the man who represents what we practice.
Name: abc
email: abc@ca.com
Message: HAPPY NEW YEAR TO PRESIDENT CLINTON ! JUST HANG ON, DON'T QUIT, NEVER, EVER RESIGN !
Name: digi
email:
Message: I love to come on here and bash President Clinton, becauase I am a mean spirited person. I even hate my mother.
Name: Last Visible Dog to Mary Jo K
email:
Message: Finally, and I've waited a long long time, you said something worthwhile.
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: I love Sadam. I also like to spew hatred. God forgive me cause I have sinned.
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: I love Sadam. I also like to spew hatred. God forgive me cause I have sinned.
Name: Last Visible Dog
email:
Message:
Well, not all the facts are in yet – but it is looking pretty likely…
If this story pans out – it looks like the News Years meal at the Hillary Forum will be crow. First, for the last week or so the Editor has been telling us all that the Republicans are so much worse then Clinton because a Republican (Dan Burton) had an illegitimate son and supposedly disowned him (when in fact Dan financially support the child). Well, well, well….looks like Bill Clinton sired an illegitimate child and REALLY disowned him. It looks as though Bill Clinton paid a prostitute for sex about 13 years ago and the business transaction produced a child. It seems Clinton truly disowned the child. Below is a picture of The First Family’s Illegitimate Half Son. Despite the difference in race he sure does look like Bill Clinton. I will admit this story is in the very early stage and, who knows maybe it will not pan out – but right now it sure looks pretty darn likely (not to mention the ongoing DNA test will prove or disprove it – the story says the mother, Bobbie Ann Williams, took a lie-detector test and passed. I can’t wait to hear what excuses the Editor will think up to justify this. Enjoy the crow!
-LVD
Name: Last Visible Dog
email:
Message: I didn't mean for my signature to be centered on the picture - that looks strange like I am saying it is a picture of me...I am a bit older.
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: The Republicans are so deperate now they are fabricating new stories So did Hitler. Read your History cause it does repeat it self.
Name: Father Time
email:
Message: Is that your picture LVD lol
Name: Last Visible Dog to the cat that thinks Malaysia is in Europe.
email:
Message:
now they are fabricating new stories
Isn’t that the same thing the Followers of the Cult of Clinton were saying almost exactly one year ago about the Monica story. BTW - they were wrong then...
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: If Slick Willie is so damn good looking, why is he paying for sex? I can hear the Democratic propaganda now--to justify Clinton's abuse of this woman, he paid her. What a warm, fuzzy guy!
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: I pay for sex
Name: Conservative Libertarian
email: reality@america.com
Message:
So a DNA test will reveal whether it's likely that Bill Clinton is the father of Danny Williams. Big deal. A positive result will only reinforce what we already know - that Bill Clinton cheats on his wife, treats women as sex objects while promoting feminist causes, and isn't interested in taking responsibility for his actions. It's already been established that most Americans, for whatever reason, don't seem to think that character is an important quality in a President.
Of significance, however, is the fact that President Clinton never provided sworn testimony regarding his knowledge of the child or the mother. Consequently, it has no bearing on his impeachment or the upcoming trial in the Senate. As Republicans have said all along, it's not the sex, it's the perjury!
Liberals, on the other hand, including the editors of this site, have focused on sex as the issue - quick to point out the extramarital affairs of other prominent Republican politicians, calling them hypocrites for passing judgement on the President even though that judgement is legal and not moral.
But then again, most Americans seem to be responding more to the sleaze and scandal than the felonies. Catering to this fascination, Salon and Hustler have already taken us into the gutter. It's only natural that other enterprising reporters will follow suit and gladly lead us into the sewer.
By emphasizing sex and morality instead of perjury and obstruction of justice, liberals are building a shortcut to the red light district, not a 'bridge to the 21st century'.
Name: Stoner®
email:
Message: Twenty years ago scum like Clinton could get away with this kind of crap but thanks to DNA testing they can't lie as effectively any more. People like Henry Hyde and the other Republicans that have been exposed never lied about their screw-up's (pardon the pun). They took their medicine without DNA evidence. They admitted it and apologized and one even resigned in disgrace. It takes a consience to do something like that, it takes a sense of honor, thing's neither of the Clinton's seem to have. I hope Clinton is never thrown out of office. I hope he stays there getting more and more of his pathetic life exposed every single day until the next election. I can't wait for a vote between the Poll Party and the Law Party. It'll be a slaughter. God Bless Danny Williams!
Name: Danny Williams
email:
Message: Pa? How come you never sent Ma a check? We been mighty poor all our lives. We been hungry while you been piggin' out at McDonalds. We been livin' in a trailer while you been livin' in a palace. How come Pa? How come you never loved me Pa? How come you never tried to help us Pa? How come?
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: I have never paid for sex. I am happily married. I have never cheated on my husband. Sorry, liberals, it can and it does happen.
Name: Mary Jo K
email:
Message: Grover Cleveland, the original Pa, owned up to and supported his illegitimate offspring. Will Bill?
Name: Last Visible Dog
email:
Message:
This is the next BIG Clinton scandal - the one that Drudge is hinting about. Even Salon is covering it.
Salon Blood money BY SUZI PARKER | Even the residents of Grady, Ark., call it "godforsaken." It's an enclave of poverty where rampant drug dealing contributes at least as much to the bleak economy as the main legitimate business -- farming -- does.
But looming among the rows of cotton outside this dismal Arkansas River Delta town, there used to be a more profitable form of agriculture: human plasma farming. At the Cummins Unit of the Arkansas penal system during the 1980s, while President Clinton was still governor, inmates would regularly cross the prison hospital's threshold to give blood, lured by the prospect of receiving $7 a pint. The ritual was creepy to behold: platoons of prisoners lying supine on rows of cots, waiting for the needle-wielding prison orderly to puncture a vein and watch the clear bags fill with blood. Administrators then sold the blood to brokers, who in turn shipped it to other states, and to Japan, Italy, Spain and Canada. Despite repeated warnings from the Food and Drug Administration, Arkansas kept its prison plasma program running until 1994, when it became the very last state to cease selling its prisoners' plasma.
In a year when Arkansas scandals dating back to his governorship have returned to haunt Clinton, this one nearly toppled the government -- of Canada. Arkansas' prison-blood business created a health crisis in Canada that nearly brought down the Liberal Party government last spring. At least 42,000 Canadians have been infected with hepatitis C, and thousands more with the HIV virus, thanks to poorly screened plasma. Some of it has been traced back to the Cummins prison in Arkansas. More than 7,000 Canadians are expected to die as a result of the blood scandal.
The Canadian Krever Commission, established in 1993 to investigate the tainted-blood epidemic, concluded the government did not adequately supervise the Red Cross of Canada, the agency responsible for making sure that blood suppliers maintained adequate screening standards. As a result of the scandal, the Red Cross has been stripped of responsibility for the blood system. Compensation was offered to 1,000 people with AIDS, but the Toronto Star estimates nearly 2,000 are suffering. More than 20,000 tainted-blood victims with hepatitis C filed a class-action suit against the Canadian government, alleging that sloppy screening protocols allowed tainted blood products from Arkansas prisons and elsewhere to make their way into Canada. Last week the Canadian government established a $1.1 billion (Canadian) fund to compensate some hepatitis C victims, but advocates say the fund won't be enough.
Former Arkansas inmates who claim they contracted hepatitis C and AIDS as a result of improper procedures are also planning to bring a lawsuit against the Arkansas Department of Corrections, Health Management Associates Inc. (HMA), Pine Bluff Biologicals -- the two companies that held the prison's plasma contracts -- the state of Arkansas, Clinton and his administration at the time. The White House did not return calls seeking comment on the lawsuits.
The scandals have received little media attention here, but they tainted Clinton's years as governor. Some newspaper columnists at the time said it could jeopardize his reelection. Two longtime friends of Clinton's were embroiled in the mess: Leonard Dunn, a former Pine Bluff banker and now chief of staff for Lt. Gov. Winthrop Rockefeller, served as HMA's president; and Richard Mays, a Little Rock lawyer, judge and Clinton ally, was hired in 1985 as an "ombudsman," an ill-defined position that was supposedly created to help bring the prison medical system into compliance with state standards. The exact payment Mays received, or what his duties were, was never established, and became the subject of a state police investigation because of allegations that it was actually a "bribe" paid to a Clinton supporter to allow the program to continue.
Problems with the prison plasma program were well known to Clinton throughout the 1980s. The FDA cited HMA for safety deficiencies and shut it down for over a year in 1983, following a recall of hepatitis B-tainted products that had been shipped to Canada and distributed to hemophiliacs. In 1984, the FDA revoked the center's license to operate, and in 1985, an inmate filed a lawsuit against HMA for inadequate medical care. In 1986, Clinton's state police investigated problems at the prison and found little cause for concern, while an outside investigator looked at the same allegations and found dozens of safety violations.
Now, more than a decade later, those old Arkansas scandals are getting new attention, thanks to lawsuits and agitation in Canada. To date, the scandal has gotten almost no media attention in the United States. While reporters are riveted by the Monica Lewinsky mess, they've ignored a real Clinton scandal, maybe because it involves two groups no one cares much about -- people who aren't Americans, and prisoners.
12/25-1/3-98/99
Name: Keiko
email:
Message: Tainted blood? Bastard children? Methinks character does count.
Name: kdawg
email:
Message: ...it would seem that we as a nation would have learned from instances in past "pseudo-intellectualistical" situation, that have not required the mob mentiality of partisan potilitics,its unfortunate that we as a nation/people, must be stifled by right-wing zealots, that embody the hypocritical stance that they speak in the nation's interest, it is this notion that makes "U.S."the laughing stock in our global community, and its VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT ITS ONLY THE REPUBLICANS THAT ARE DOING THE MOST "BITCHIN!!!!
Name:
email:
Message: Friday 11 September 1998
A U.S. firm with links to U.S. President Bill Clinton collected HIV-tainted blood from Arkansas prison inmates in the 1980s and shipped it to Canada, newly uncovered documents reveal.
The contaminated plasma -- used to create special blood products for hemophiliacs -- is believed to have been infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. As well, it's likely the prisoners' blood was contaminated with hepatitis C.
The story of how that plasma was collected and found its way into the bloodstreams of unsuspecting Canadians stands as one of the most shocking -- yet least explored -- aspects of the tainted-blood tragedy.
Its significance is magnified by the fact that Mr. Clinton's name is associated with the story.
Mr. Clinton was governor of Arkansas when the Canadian blood supply was contaminated in the mid-'80s. He was generally familiar with the operations of now-defunct Health Management Associates (HMA), the Arkansas firm that was given a contract by Mr. Clinton's own state administration to provide medical care to prisoners.
In the process, HMA was also permitted to collect prisoners' blood and sell it elsewhere.
HMA's president in the mid-1980s was Leonard Dunn, a personal friend and political ally of Mr. Clinton. Later, Mr. Dunn was a Clinton appointee to the Arkansas Industrial Development Commission, and he headed Mr. Clinton's 1990 gubernatorial re-election finance committee.
It's not known how many Canadians contracted HIV from the plasma of Arkansas prisoners, who were paid $7 a unit, although it's likely that several hundred, perhaps thousands, were infected by the tainted products.
At the time, U.S. companies that fractionate blood products had stopped buying prison blood because it was widely understood that, since many inmates practised unsafe sex or were intravenous drug addicts, their blood posed a high risk of carrying the AIDS virus.
However, HMA found a willing buyer in a Montreal blood broker, who then sold the plasma to Toronto-based blood fractionator Connaught Laboratories. Connaught apparently didn't realize the plasma had come from prisoners.
Canadians learned of the prison connection in 1995, when Justice Horace Krever's inquiry on the tainted-blood scandal unearthed some aspects of the story. In his voluminous report last November, Judge Krever chronicled what he knew of the prison plasma contract.
But nowhere before now has any mention been made of Mr. Clinton's name, even though the facility in question -- Cummins prison in Grady, Arkansas -- was located in his state during an era when the governor's office was active in overseeing many aspects of public administration.
Two new developments are bound to focus public attention on Mr. Clinton's knowledge of the prison-blood collection system -- all this at a time when the president is bracing himself for the fallout over independent counsel Kenneth Starr's report on the Monica Lewinsky affair.
This month, a new book, Blood Trail, is being released in Canada and the U.S. It is a novel, and its Illinois publisher is carefully taking the usual legal precaution to declare in the book that if any characters in this "work of fiction" bear resemblance to real people, it is "purely coincidental."
However, the book is a thinly veiled account of how an Arkansas governor gets caught up in a prison-blood scheme gone bad, becomes U.S. president, and tries to cover up his past.
What adds to the book's mystique is that it is written under a pseudonym, "Michael Sullivan," to temporarily hide the author's true identity. The Citizen is aware of the author's real name, and has agreed to keep it confidential.
The author is a medical practitioner in Arkansas who has direct knowledge of how the prison system worked when Mr. Clinton was governor. He wishes to remain anonymous temporarily because he fears retribution in his home state, but acknowledges that he will be willing to reveal his name once the media have reported details of the prison-blood collection program. At that point, he says, he won't feel as vulnerable.
In another development, the Citizen has obtained copies of internal Arkansas state police documents written by investigators who were examining HMA in the mid-'80s. The investigators were following up on complaints the company supplied poor medical service to the prisoners (some had died, and one had lost a leg) and were probing rumours that the Clinton appointees on the prison board had demanded a bribe in return for renewing HMA's $3-million health-care contract in 1985.
In the end, the investigators accepted the explanation supplied by the board and HMA: Mr. Clinton was "deeply concerned about HMA's past performance" and it was decided that as a condition of getting the contract renewed, Little Rock lawyer Richard Mays should be paid $25,000 by the firm to act as an "ombudsman" for the prisoners. Mr. Mays was a Clinton friend who had been appointed to the Arkansas Supreme Court in 1980-81 by the governor.
The state police asked HMA and Mr. Mays for a copy of the "letter of agreement" outlining what was expected of him as ombudsman, but one could not be found.
Years later, Mr. Mays became entangled in the Whitewater scandal. His name also cropped up as one of an exclusive group of Clinton friends and supporters who the president rewarded with unusual access to the White House. In fact, Mr. Mays was one of more than 300 loyalists who were allowed to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom of the White House -- a well-kept secret until word of the reward system leaked out, sparking a controversy in the U.S.
But what is perhaps most striking about the state troopers' notes -- based on interviews -- was the propensity of HMA's president, Mr. Dunn, to boast of his political ties and the fact he was a "friend of Gov. Clinton."
"Mr. Dunn spoke openly and freely and explained to these investigators that he was the financial portion of the corporation as well as the political arm," wrote investigator Sam Probasco.
"Dunn advised that ... he was close to Gov. Clinton as well as the majority of state politicians presently in office."
Also in the police files, Dr. Francis Henderson, HMA's medical director, described how the market for prison blood had dried up in the early '80s, the period when AIDS emerged.
One U.S. company, Cutter Laboratories, had in 1980 cancelled its contract to purchase prisoners' plasma, he said, adding that it was "historically" the worst possible time to sell.
"I called all over the world and finally got one group in Canada who would take the contract," Dr. Henderson told the state police.
The state police documents even contain statements which, if true, raise troubling questions about how HMA was able to sell its plasma during that period.
The report, written by Sgt. King of the criminal investigation division, stated: "H.M.A. licence was pulled in 1982 for Falsifying Records and shipping hot blood. Their licence was pulled (for) 13 months."
In a related document entitled "case synopsis," Dr. King also wrote that in August 1983, the prison plasma centre was "suspended after an investigation by department of Health and Human Services, an agency with the Food and Drug Administration."
"The suspension was for collecting and shipping plasma which had been collected from donors with a history of positive tests for (hepatitis B) ... The violations were directly related to using inmate labour in the record and donor reject list."
It wasn't until the Krever inquiry in 1995 that some limited aspects of the prison blood fiasco began to emerge.
In the early '80s, the Canadian Red Cross had contracts with three U.S. companies (Cutter, Hyland and Armour) and one Canadian firm (Connaught) to produce blood products. But not enough plasma was collected from Canadian donors to produce the products, so some plasma had to come from U.S. donors.
In December 1982, at a meeting with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the U.S. companies agreed not to use plasma from high-risk donors, such as prison inmates. But Connaught, because of its Canadian origins, was not at the meeting and was unaware of the new policy.
To make matters worse, Connaught had decided it was "impracticable" to inspect all of the plasma-collection sites itself and decided to rely on FDA reports. Judge Krever discovered that those reports were obtained but not reviewed by Connaught.
The first publicly known signs of trouble came in mid-June of 1983, when HMA told the FDA that 38 units of plasma it collected earlier in the year from four inmates at the Grady prison should not have been collected.
The inmates had tested positive for hepatitis B and it was well understood by specialists by 1983 that anyone with this disease ran a high risk of also having AIDS. Thus, as Judge Krever noted, there was a "greater-than-average risk that the 38 units of plasma from the four inmates could transmit AIDS."
On June 17, 1983, HMA told its Montreal blood broker, Continental Pharma, of the problem. Four of the 38 units had already been sent to Connaught in Toronto, and the other 34 units had been sold to fractionators in Switzerland, Spain, Japan, and Italy.
Continental Pharma did not immediately warn Connaught of the danger. Indeed, Connaught didn't learn until Aug. 18 of the problem from the Canadian Health department, which had been told by the U.S. FDA.
The next day, Aug. 19, a Continental Pharma official told Connaught of the problem. According to a Connaught memo of the conversation about the four donors with hepatitis B: "They were from a prison population and had not been truthful when their history was taken."
Until this conversation, Connaught had been unaware of the fact that it had been processing plasma collected from prison inmates. The shipping papers accompanying the plasma had not revealed the centre was located in a prison. They simply referred to the source as the "ADC Plasma Centre, Grady, Arkansas," without any indication that "ADC" stood for Arkansas Department of Corrections.
Connaught had received, in February 1983, an FDA inspection report that revealed the centre was in a prison. But, as Judge Krever noted of the report: "It had not been reviewed (by Connaught)."
By the time Connaught learned of the concerns about the four prisoners' plasma, it was virtually too late. It had mixed the plasma in with huge pools of other units, meaning just one contaminated unit would taint the whole batch.
Connaught had already sent the Canadian Red Cross 2,409 vials of blood products made, in part, from the four prisoners' plasma. On Aug. 23, Connaught telephoned the Red Cross and declared that it wanted to withdraw those vials of Factor VIII, a blood product used by hemophiliacs to help make their blood clot properly.
However, the Red Cross had already sent out the product to its blood centres in Toronto, London, Hamilton and Ottawa. Officials scrambled to pull the product from the shelves. But in the end, only 417 vials -- about one-sixth of the total -- was retrieved.
Soon after, there was another warning from HMA about potentially infected plasma from the Grady prison. Again, it was too late. Connaught asked the Red Cross on Sept. 6 to retrieve 1,968 vials. Only 27 were recovered.
On Sept. 7, Connaught's vice-president told the Red Cross that the plasma that had led to the two withdrawals had been collected from prison inmates. The Red Cross immediately cancelled its contract with Connaught, writing that although the company was "not directly responsible for the circumstances" and had "acted in good faith," the problem with the plasma "leaves us with no confidence in the quality and safety of the material."
When Connaught conducted an internal review of the embarrassing mishap, it discovered it had also collected plasma in 1982-83 from inmates at four Louisiana prisons. A company there, Community Plasma Centre Inc., had sold the plasma to HMA in Arkansas. Again, just as it did with the plasma from the Grady prison, HMA sold the product to Continental Pharma, which sold it to Connaught.
"There is no doubt that Canada's dependence on commercial concentrates made from U.S. plasma increased the risk that Canadians with hemophilia would be infected with HIV," wrote Judge Krever. The AIDS epidemic had hit the U.S. earlier, and that country's practice of paying donors increased the risk that high-risk donors (such as drug addicts) would donate because they needed the money.
"The U.S. practice of collecting plasma in prisons also increased the risk." Unfortunately, by early 1983, however, Canada's was facing that risk itself. American hemophiliacs were getting their products from U.S. fractionators that had closed the door on prison blood.
"Connaught, without knowing it, became the only fractionator in North American that was using plasma collected in prisons," observed Judge Krever.
Almost all of that plasma, it seems, was coming from HMA in Arkansas, where Mr. Clinton had been re-elected after being once turfed from office.
He was on his way to being known as the Comeback Kid.
Name: Steve PMVRWC (Proud Member Vast Right Wing Conspiracy)
email: steve@pmvrwc.net
Message: Here is what the Majority of the other 249,999,500 Citizesn of this Republic Believe! We will not let 500 hand picked individuals dictate the TRUE Views of the Republic!! In Light of recent events concerning the matter of the Impeachment proceedings against William Clinton. I as a citizen of this Great Republic wish to address my concerns on this issue, specifically the attempts by Clinton and his supporters attempts at circumventing the Constitution, along with the Common Law by which all citizens must abide. I will address this in my message as well my understanding the Impeachment process as outlined in Article I, Section 3, Paragraphs 6, and 7 of the Constitution. The criteria that must be met is outlined in Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution, of which 2 articles have been sent to you for a trial. This is the subject to which I wish to address. The Founding Fathers designed the Impeachment procedure as a means to deal with Violations by the listed Offices of Government in order to keep Corruption out. As officially elected members of Congress, upon taking office an Oath is taken by each of you to uphold the laws and the Constitution. The Constitution directs that a Trial now be held using the 2 articles sent as the basis for it. To do anything else is not Constitutional. If any other course is taken then the Constitution and Common Law will have been circumvented. I have the utmost faith that this will not be allowed to happen. Upon entering your Elected position of office, an Oath is taken to uphold the laws, and Constitution of our country. It is the Individual commitment to the Ideas and Principles behind this Oath, that set the standard for Fair Governance by our elected Officials. If the Oath becomes meaningless then Fair Governance is no longer a viable option, and thus the possibility for tyranny to arise is dramatically increased. The very same Idealism behind this sacred Oath is what has maintained the Freedoms, Liberty, and Rights of all citizens in this country through the generations. It is the same Commitment to this Oath taken by members of the Armed Forces that has ensured our Countries Security in all the Conflicts we have been engaged in. If this Oath were to have become Meaningless to them, then our Country would have long ago perished. Many have made the Greatest Sacrifice, by giving their lives in the line of duty, showing the depth of their personal commitment to our Countries shared beliefs. When considering the looming process facing you members of the Senate, I ask that you remember those from Valley Forge, War of 1812, The Civil War, World War I, World War II, The Korean War, The Vietnam War, The Cold War, and The Gulf War. This is a long line of Historical examples highlighting a Commitment to Principles, Virtues, and Integrity, which are the foundation that the Oath of office is founded on. I am certain that each of you have the same level of vigor for this idealism that ensures the continued existence of our way of life. The purpose of the Constitution was to protect the inalienable rights of all citizens of our country and create a framework for laws necessary to maintain this order, so as to prevent anarchy from prevailing. Each citizen knows what these laws are, and the consequences to be incurred by violating them. It is each citizens responsibility to abide by the Constitution and all the laws in the land, and not violate the rights of other citizens. No one citizen can cite fault to others for actions that were taken by them, nor can this citizen be allowed to place themselves above the law by using their elected position in government. If this allowed to happen, then this would surely be the death of our representative form of self governance. Ignorance of laws is not acceptable, especially as in this case when a government position has been used in order to quash the rights of a common citizen. This type of subversion if left unpunished will give rise to the possibility of a tyrant coming into power, who would then use the position to increase his stranglehold on the country forcing his will upon them. I appeal to you Honorable members of the Senate to take this into consideration when others approach you asking for this trial to not proceed. It is each and everyone of you that the future of the Constitution now depends upon. There will be times in the existence of a country when Right is not popular, and doing what is Right will also not be popular. It is at this crossroads that we now find ourselves. The course we take will depend upon the choices that you Members of the Senate make, and the action that you do, or do not take. History will judge these decisions accordingly to either the Moralistic Courage displayed by moving ahead with the Trial, or the Immoralistic Cowardice by opting for anything other than a Trial. You members of the Senate will be the Jurors, just as a common citizen is in the trial of a fellow citizen. This is a Big Responsibility, and I will commend you all if this is indeed the course you choose. Pertaining to the comparison of yourselves as a Jury in this case. It is just as Important that any attempt by Mr. Clinton, his lawyers, his supporters, or any fellow Democrat to influence your decision, should be seen as Jury tampering, and dealt with according to law. I mention this because, if an average citizen on trial cannot lobby the selected jury to ensure a Not Guilty verdict, or influence the decision making process of punishment to his liking. Then it is obvious that Mr. Clinton should be given the same option, and that he be forced to abide by the Constitution, along with the Laws of this land. I ask you, if Mr. Clinton is indeed Not Guilty of the either of the 2 articles sent to you, then why is he lobbying so hard for Censure. Based on this observation, then your Constitutional Duty is indeed clear on this issue, just as is our Judicial systems duty if faced with the same dilemma with an average citizen. If Truth were on his side, would he not be asking for the trial to proceed? It is this very point that I wish to point out to you. Mr. Clinton has during this whole process displayed his contempt for the Constitution and Common Law, just like a criminal displays his disregard for the law, its Enforcers, and the Judicial process. This is apparent to many citizens I know, and they have not been polled. One must remember that Justice in this Country is dictated by the Constitution, along with the laws of the land, and not by Polling. The credibility of the polling data is questionable, given the biasness of those who do the polling. I appeal to each of you to ignore these polls, along with the Medias attempts to Shape Public opinion on this matter, instead of reporting the news. I am confident that you members of the Senate are indeed above such coordinated rhetoric. The only evidence that can be acknowleged or utilized in rendering a verdict in any trial, is enclosed in the accompanying report with the 2 articles sent to you for Trial. Of course other evidence can be submitted, or acquired as you would see fit according to the rules of Impeachment. Mr. Clinton has continued to place blame on others for this whole process which extend from his own personal choices in dealing with others. It is not the Fault of Congress, or others, that he finds himself in the Dire Straits he is in. If he is to be believed, then this would equate to a criminal attempting to blame law enforcement for doing its job as dictated by law. Is this type of reasoning not ludicrous? Please do not allow Mr. Clinton or his supporters to Dumb down your own personal senses of Moral Right and Wrong. To do so will be giving in to his personal deisres, and rewarding him for the Violations he has committed against other citizens, and this country as a whole. Mr. Clintons supporters are intimidating members of Congress who would seek to do their Constitutional Duty, by hiring investigators to look into each ones past life. This type of action is against the law, and must not be tolerated. If it is allowed to continue, or prevent the necessary trial from transpiring, then this type of action would become standard operational procedure in order to attain the same desired results in the future. Is this the type of Governance the Founding Fathers sought to ensure? Reading the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution in its entirety would quash this notion. It is with this knowledge that I now ask of each of you to reach deep inside yourselves, then to diplay the Moral Courage necessary to uphold the Constitution, and do what is right by the law for the good of our country. We citizens will be observing, and waiting to see the course you choose. The future of Honesty, Truthfulness, and Duty are now in your hands. Please do not fail us. Below follows a paragraph from George Washingtons Farewell Speech that means even more now, than it did then. As for Qualifications needed for leadership, here is a paragraph to best describe it. Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness--these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with the private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation DESERT the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. Author: George Washington in his Farewell Address Several important Quotes follow also. Fraud and prevarication are servile vices. They sometimes grow out of the necessities, always out of the habits, of slavish and degenerate spirits---It is an erect countenance, it is a firm adherence to principle, it is a power of resisting false shame and frivolous fear, that assert our good faith and honor, and assure to us the confidence of mankind. Edmund Burke Lies and perfidy are the refuge of fools and cowards. Philip Dormer Stanhope, Fourth Earl of Chesterfield There is no such thing as white lies; a lie is as black as a coal pit, and twice as foul. Henry Ward Beecher He who permits himself to tell a lie once finds it much easier to do it a second and a third time till at length it becomes habitual. Thomas Jefferson I hope I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an "Honest Man." George Washington Truthfulness is a corner-stone in character, and if it be not firmly laid in youth, there will ever after be a weak spot in the foundation. J. Davis Honesty shines like a light through your eyes. Author Unknown Let men be on their guard against those who flatter and mislead the multitude: their actions prove what sort of men they are. Of the tyrant, spies and informers are the principal instruments. War is his favorite occupation, for the sake of engrossing the attention of the people, and making himself necessary to them as their leader. Aristotle Of all the tyrannies on human kind The worst is that which persecutes the mind. John Dryden The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress. Frederick Douglass (1817?-1895) The time to guard against corruption and tyranny is before they have gotten hold of us. It is better to keep the wolf out of the fold than to trust to drawing his teeth and talons after he shall have entered. Thomas Jefferson They (tyrants) use their power against the people in three manners. The first is that they strive that those under their mastery be ever ignorant and timorous, because, when they be such, they may not be bold to rise against them, nor to resist their wills; and the second is that their victims be not kindly and united among themselves, in such wise that they trust not one another. …; and the third way is that they strive to make them poor, and to put them upon great undertakings, which they can never finish, whereby they may have so much harm that it may never come into their hearts to devise anything against their ruler. Alfonso X (Alfonso the Wise) Las Siete Partidas. Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it; and this I know, my lords, that where laws end, tyranny begins. William Pitt Necessity is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves. William Pittthe Younger The man who is tenacious of purpose in a rightful cause is not shaken from his firm resolve by the frenzy of his fellow citizens clamoring for what is wron