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Hillary Clinton woos India
By Siddharth Srivastava

NEW DELHI - For all those who think that Hillary Clinton isn't gearing up for the US presidential elections circa 2008, they would do well to take a peep at her recent visit to India. She wasn't here as the wife of ex-president Bill Clinton, well known for enjoying India having visited the country several times as president, meanwhile charming a whole lot of Indians.

Hillary was in New Delhi last week in her own right as New York senator and as a person whom India sees as playing an important role in global politics and economics in the near future. She may deny that she aspires to be the Democratic nominee for president and says she is looking forward to standing for re-election to New York in 2006, but the rest of the world (including India) certainly does not perceive her in this light.

Despite busy schedules, including elections to three states and a natural disaster in Jammu & Kashmir to manage, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the all-powerful Congress Party president Sonia Gandhi marked out time for Hillary, who was accompanied by US ambassador to India David Mulford to a number of meetings. An official reception was hosted for her by the Indian government, while she also addressed a conclave of world leaders organized by a leading national magazine. She was followed around by the media, not to cut a decent picture of her for the glossies, but for her views on India-US relations, including burgeoning economic ties, as well as her strict adherence to the principles of free trade and outsourcing that affect India directly. Undoubtedly, the highlight of her visit was the hour-long meeting with Gandhi. The two women placed third (Gandhi) and fifth on the list of the most powerful women in the world prepared by Forbes last year. Everybody, at least in India, expects Hillary to make the dash in 2008 that would surely pitchfork her onto the top position of any list.

During her meeting with Gandhi, Hillary discussed at length the socio-economic issues of both countries. "Both the leaders assessed the growth of India-US ties from [Bill] Clinton's time and how far it progressed. They have also reviewed the socio-economic situation prevailing in the country," a statement said. "It was a nice meeting and both enjoyed it," said an aide to the Indian prime minister following her discussions with Manmohan. "They talked about healthcare, education, India-US relations and South Asia. It was a wide-ranging discussion," the aide said. Manmohan told the New York senator that the Indian people fondly remembered the visit by her husband in March 2000. This marked a "turning point in India-US relations", the prime minister said, and recalled the "warm welcome your husband received" when he addressed the Indian parliament. Clinton said her husband "greatly enjoyed" visiting India and was deeply committed to the HIV/AIDS program the Clinton Foundation had undertaken in this country.

Even as Hillary left India, Democratic Senator Joseph Biden issued the clarion call that any Democrat who wants to run for president in 2008 should keep in mind these three words: Hillary Rodham Clinton. "I think she'd be incredibly difficult to beat," Biden said on US television. "I think she is the most difficult obstacle for anyone being the nominee. She'd be the toughest person and I think Hillary Clinton is able to be elected president of the United States."

It may be recalled that former president Bill Clinton enjoyed close ties to the Indian American community during his presidency. It was he who first actively sought to build bridges as well as cultivate the Indian community in the US, recognizing their numbers - more than 2 million - as well as their immense money-power (read potential campaign fund contributors) as global information technology pioneers.

India's relations with the US were by and large on the ascent under Clinton. Post presidency, Clinton has been closely associated with the American India Foundation and visited India in 2001, as head of an Indian delegation to collect funds for victims of the Gujarat earthquake. There was considerable talk at that time as well that the Clinton visit was a well-orchestrated plan to cultivate the Indian American community to keep them warm for Hillary if the need arose. The 2004 US elections also witnessed Indian-Americans reaching out to Republican George W Bush as a reaction to the virulent anti-outsourcing campaign being orchestrated by former Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

Further, given the strides that Indo-US relations have taken under Bush, politically, economically and militarily, the Indian community felt much more comfortable in maintaining this continuity. Bush has himself indicated his pro-India proclivities by promising that he will visit the country this year. Hillary surely does not want to lose the momentum built by her husband and wants to arrest any decisive turn by Indian Americans towards the Republicans.

Hillary clears outsourcing air
Hillary Clinton made it apparent where she stood on outsourcing during her India visit, in an attempt perhaps to clear the Indian misgivings received during the Kerry campaign. "There is no way to legislate against reality. Outsourcing will continue," she told an audience of Indian big-wigs. She pointed out that there were 3 billion people who feel left behind and are trying to attack the modern world in the hope of turning the clock back on globalization. "It is not far-fetched to imagine ... if the Indian miracle would be the one of choice of those who feel left behind," said Hillary.

Hillary has been at the forefront in defending free trade and outsourcing. During the height of the anti-outsourcing backlash in the US last year, she faced considerable flak for defending Indian software giant Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) for opening a center in Buffalo, New York. "We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences," Hillary said firmly, despite inevitably invoking the ire of the anti-free trade brigade.

Hillary further clarified her position during her recent visit as well as solutions that could be beneficial to both countries. She urged Indian industries to invest more in the US to allay negative outpourings over outsourcing of American jobs to India. "I have to be frank. People in my country are losing their jobs and the US policymakers need to address this issue," she said. She ruled out that the anti-India feeling was a reflexive reaction, and explained that the feeling was more because of the imbalance in trade between the two countries, which in turn caused anguish among Americans about the nature of the economic relationship.

"In 2003, US merchandise exports to India was $5 billion, while India exports to the US was $13.8 billion. Though the US understood that the economic vibrancy of India was in its own interest, there are people who feel left behind and might stir up negative feelings against India because they do not understand the economic benefits of outsourcing," Clinton remarked.

"If the feeling was to be arrested, Indian companies should invest more in the US to create a balance in trade relations," she said. Hillary added that she had personally wooed Indian companies to establish partnerships with American counterparts. "In June 2002, TCS partnered with the University of Buffalo to bring patented research to the market place. I would like to see more of such partnerships," she said. source

Siddharth Srivastava is a New Delhi-based journalist.

Name:

Navajo Scott

Message:
Sadly enough, I am sure that Hillary and Kerry will both run in '08. Kerry was quick to concede this time in order to preserve his future chances. Hillary has been acting awfully conservative lately too, trying to placate critics before her run. In my opinion, in order to win the Democrats need new blood, someone not previously tainted by the Republican smear machine.

Name:	Bill See
Re:	why hill will always reject the mirrolure

Message:
In response to: This faction includes new DNC chief Howard Dean, who openly detests the Clintons. Message: If she runs, she'd have no trouble outflanking Dean. Where she'll have trouble is outflanking herself. The trouble with leftwingers trying to cover all bases was demonstrated vividly by Kerry's floundering last year. Now, I'll acept that the left stil would have nowhere else to go, she's got them sewed- in her pocket but she'll still have to coo to them sometimes like you would eons and the right AND the center correctly are going to take those cooings as a sign of her fickleness.

Here's the question, though, this isn't Arkansas 1984, she wants to play mainstream now, do you really think she's going to want little some sleazy scam promo outfit in her camp? One, they'll detract from her proper clean new image, two she knows already they just want in on her campaign the same way the crooks wanted in on elecytric ladyland studios & royalties, and three, they obviously have no trustworthiness or good faith on her behalf, how could she ever trust them, they've already tried to intimidate her for pete's sake!!

Name:	Po -A
To:	FORUM

Message:
The truth of the matter is that the right 'wants' Hilary to run. That should be your first clue right there.

I don't trust them at all....they've had years to put out 'bad press' on her. I don't think she's afraid of the right - you have to have a lot of backbone to even be in politics, but she has seemed to 'conform' a bit.

I think we need new blood - a heavy hitter who's unafraid of the right - who can tell it like it is and fight back at every chance.

After all that's what every bully (and that's what the right is) is afraid of - someone who fights back.

Name:

DOA

Message:
New Mexico Governor and former U.N. Ambassador and Energy Secretary Bill Richardson has privately told party leaders that he will run for president in 2008.

I think he is impressive in his knowledge and approach to foreign policy. I'd rather see him than Hillary or Kerry. He could capture the imagination and votes of the red south and the blue states, and put a breath of fresh air into the party.

Name:

Apache Killer of Sissy Navajos

In response to:
you're stupider than you look, waddlebutt...that smar machine is DEMOCRAT PARTY crap

Name:

Strawburry Beet

Message:
I'm in favor of Hillary. I like her gumption, her politics, and her honest compassion. She is moving towards the center, just as her husband did when he made his bid for the presidency.

She will be crucified by the right though. They have an aversion to strong women. If you notice, Condi is praised for her "loyality" not for her strength of character or ideas.

John Edwards is an interesting choice, but he needs to stop being so nice. He needs a little bit of Howard Dean's anger. He will get attacked for experience and his career as a lawyer.

Bill Richardson would give the Repubs a challenge. He is tough, smart, and knows how to play the game. I like him. He can win. My choice would be a Richardson/Edwards ticket. Or maybe Obama as VP on this ticket. I think we can win big with this combo.

It is sad that Hillary has a solid 10% who would probably vote against her no matter what. (the stat is my guess only) I really do respect her intelligence and think she would do an outstanding job.

Name:	Navajo Scott
To:	Harp Fans

In response to:
favor of Hillary. I like her gumption, her politics, and her honest compassion. She is moving towards the center, just as her husband did when he made his bid for the presidency. She will be crucified by the right though. They have an

Message:
It's a shame how Hillary has been demonized by the right. She is a smart, saavy woman and as a woman would love to see her as president. However, unless something changes -- the right is all ready for her.

Name:	Martlette
To:	Navajo Scott

In response to:
It's a shame how Hillary has been demonized by the right. She is a smart, saavy woman and as a woman would love to see her as president. However, unless something changes -- the right is all ready for her.

Message:
I am from upstate NY and I voted for Hillary not a popular choice in upstate NY! I know she would get destroyed by the right. Still, she has my vote if she gets the nod. A brillint and compassionote women.

Name:	Navajo Scott
To:	Martlette

In response to:
By the way, I've enjoyed reading your posts in the past.

Name:	Navajo Scott
To:	Martlette

In response to:
NY! I know she would get destroyed by the right. Still, she has my vote if she gets the nod. A brillint and compassionote women.

Message:
Hillary's already been destroyed by the right and she's still standing just fine. I think she can win.

Who do the Republicans have? I wondered about Jeb Bush, but his candidacy seems to be in question for some reason. Giulianni? There's not much there. McCain? He is, if I counted right, 68 years old now. Sen. Dole was in his 60s for his run, and ran out of gas on the trail, and I think McCain looks tired now. Mr. Reagan was an old bird indeed, but he was a rare bird.

Name:

hillary's lonely heart's club band

In response to:
Hillary Clinton woos India

Isn�t that precious! Look at the babies who think they get to vote! Isn�t that just darling!?! Yes. Yes. Here suck on this pacifier!?! Yes. You think it�s a vote but its not� Isn�t that a sweet baby!?! Santa is coming too.

Until the election process is fixed please stop lieing to yourselves and others by claiming we get to vote.

Minitrue is so very good. They talk elections and you all forget, the election process is ripe with fraud and broken beyond belief and yet here you are talking elections with not a word about voting reform. Shame on us all.

Condi has no experience at all running for office since her positions have all been appointed to her. she is another republican puppet, a yes sir type individual, which unfortuanetly makes her perfect for this group. if a woman were to run for president on the democrat side, what better way to counter that than to put a woman of your own up, especially one that would be completely under your control.

Name:	Big Red Font
To:	Big Red Moron
Re:	Tuba City to Gallup

In response to:
Condi has no experience at all running for office since her positions have all been appointed to her. she is another republican puppet, a yes sir type individual, which unfortuanetly makes her perfect for this group. if a woman were to run for president on the democrat side, what better way to counter that than to put a woman of your own up, especially one that would be completely under your control.

It is 2005!

Name:	Collestipher D. Chatto
To:	Paul Natonabah

Message:
I am a Din� and I support gay marriages. I was born for the Towering House People Clan and live for the Sleeping Rock People Clan. I am also a homosexual and I support gay marriages.

I don't believe marriage is used for procreation, but for the sake of love. If two people love one another, they have the right to wed, regardless of sexuality.

Not only that, in the Din� culture, homosexuals are to be respected and accepted, because homosexuals can perform both male and female characteristics. We even have roles in ceremonies, myths and tales, and as well as our traditions.

Like all indigenous tribes and ancient civilizations, homosexuality is a third gender, and marriage was for everyone. But, sadly, many of the Din� people are corrupted by the western beliefs and Christianity, causing many natives to view gays as perverted or sodomites.

But, in the early ages of Christianity, the church also wed homosexuals. Historical records even prove it.

I don't think it's right to oppress a group of people, or claim that being a homosexual leads to a life of damnation. We are part of humanity. It's a universal humane truth.

Name:

These are Not Good Times (if you're a democrat)

Message:
the fact that the dems are talking about their 2008 prospects already is kind of telling. they should be talking about issues not personalities if they want to do anything. with dean in charge of things hillarys roll will be to cater to the kook lunatics which is the dems base. she won't have the stomach for it. they need someone who will whip them into shape and hillary is not the girl to do it.

Name:

Papa

In response to:
Not only that, in the Din� culture, homosexuals are to be respected and accepted, because homosexuals can perform both male and female characteristics. We even have roles in ceremonies, myths and tales, and as well as our traditions.

Name:	Hold your Horses, Pee Wee
To:	Chicken Little
Re:	Click and zoom

In response to:
Sat Feb 26, 3:54 AM ET New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (news - web sites), left, with Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh at the latter's residence in New Delhi, India, Friday, Feb. 25, 2005. Clinton is in India as the Chief Guest at a conclave, which includes speakers from across the world. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup) QUESTION FOR RIGHT-WINGERS Which side of Hillary's face did you say proves that she had a stroke? OR.. Is this another right-wing fantasy?

Name:

In response to:
QUESTION FOR RIGHT-WINGERS Which side of Hillary's face did you say proves that she had a stroke?

Name:	Gunnar Bjorn Thorgrimsson
To:	Dame TSivia bas Mistress Rhiannon

Message:

Name:

These are Not Good Times (if you're a democrat)

Message:
I'm in favor of Hillary.

She is moving towards the center, just as her husband did when he made his bid for the presidency.

hillary is not a strong woman. she is a fraud who uses her husbands screwing around on her as leverage like some trailer park chick on cops who keeps getting her lips busted by her drunken significant other.

If you notice, Condi is praised for her "loyality" not for her strength of character or ideas.

god knows loyalty and hillary are two words you rarely hear in the same sentence.

Bill Richardson would give the Repubs a challenge. He is tough, smart, and knows how to play the game. I like him. He can win.

My choice would be a Richardson/Edwards ticket. Or maybe Obama as VP on this ticket. I think we can win big with this combo.

i think you guys need to come up with new and original ideas instead of staking eveything on a cukt of personality. they could run anyone but if their message is lame they won't win.

It is sad that Hillary has a solid 10% who would probably vote against her no matter what.

(the stat is my guess only) I really do respect her intelligence and think she would do an outstanding job.

condi is about 100x smarter than hillary. she speak like 5 languages-is an accomplished pianist and world class ice skater. what did hillary ever do exvept write fraudulent land contracts and being married to someone who treats her like dirt?

Name:

Gunnar Bjorn Thorgrimsson

Message:
Moron could be on the streets right now if he'd sign his name for release. Why would he want to lie on you to the District Attorney for a release?

Name:	Harp Master
To:	Gunnar Bjorn Thorgrimsson

Message:
Moved out from Mississippi to San Francisco about a year ago, I've been working as a restaurant cashier. Things haven't been going too well for me lately, I've been...been kind of nervous for...for personal reasons, and messed up the cash register totals a couple of times. Last Friday night, the boss called me into the office and fired me for the cash register mistakes and told me to pay for my dinner meal before leaving. I refused to pay since he fired me after I'd eaten and employees are allowed to eat a free meal before our shifts. My now ex-boss called the police, and the patrol officers came and told me to pay for the food. I refused again and was arrested for defrauding an innkeeper.

Name:	Friend of the real NS
To:	Faker Navajo Scott
Re:	Translate this and prove who you are

In response to:
Hint: Hillary visited their namesake during business hours

Message:
Nin hokeh bi-kheh a-na-ih-la
Ta-al-tso-go na-he-seel-kai
Nih-bi-kah-gi do tah kah-gi
Ta-al-tso-go en-da-de-pah
Tsi-di-da-an-ne ne-tay-yah
Ay be nihe hozeen
Washindon be Akalh Bi-kosi-la
Ji-lengo ba-hozhon
Ni-he da-na-ah-taj ihla
Yel khol-go e-e-ah
Day-ne tal-al-tso go enta-she-jah
Tal-tso-go entas-se-pah
Ha-kaz dineh-ih be-hay-jah
Ado ta aokhek-ash-shen
Do ni-din-da-hi ol-yeh
Washindon be Akalh-bi Khos

Hozo-go nay-yeltay to
A-na-oh bi-keh de-dlihn
Ni-hi-keh di-dlini ta-etin
Yeh-wol-ye hi-he a-din
Sila-go-tsoi do chah-lakai
Ya-ansh-go das dez e e
Washindon be Akalh-bi Kosi la
Hozo-g-kay-ha-tehn

Name:

Dances with buffalo (hubba hubba)

In response to:
I am a Din� and I support gay marriages. I was born for the Towering House People Clan and live for the Sleeping Rock People Clan. I am also a homosexual and I support gay marriages. I don't believe marriage is used for procreation, but for the sake of love. If two people love one another, they have the right to wed, regardless of sexuality.

Message:
Why stop at two? Why can't five people who love each other marry? For that matter why be speciest, many indigenious people carry animal totems and adore the attributes of say, the wolf...carry that love to its penultimate conclusion as Romulus and Remus felt!

Name:

Harp Master

Message:
Ah Jim I wish I had thrown that collection in my brief case this morning. The author in his short history on O'Carolan clearly states the collection was gathered from a number of transcription resouces and gives a few of the period plates as example. There is a bibliography but no annotation within the "history". It's a good read, but scholarly...far from it.

The author refers to verse that O'Carolan wrote for the laments, but does not inclue them in Gaelic or translation. Gave me a difficult time with Captian O'Kane which I understand has verse and it is only speculated that O'Carolan wrote the verse or tune (still have not seen the verse in translation or Gaelic).

So I have to play it in the key given (Em) and see what it says to me. Well, hearing Danny's (Rat face) version said something completely different (Am?) with realized chords, drop dead beautiful and sad (whoever this wounded hussar is, he is young, his wound is fresh and he will not long be). Mine seemed more like an old man with his saddness moving along well enough considering his old wound, with his pint and his pipe waiting.

Since then I have encountered several other versions which upon first listen, I had trouble discerning the tune. Slippery this business. I'm sure O'Carolan is having a good laugh over the whole bit and very happy people are still drawn to his music.

Name:

Klan Hillary

In response to:
go nay-yeltay to A-na-oh bi-keh de-dlihn Ni-hi-keh di-dlini ta-etin Yeh-wol-ye hi-he

Name:

Egdon Heath

In response to:
Why stop at two? Why can't five people who love each other marry? For that matter why be speciest, many indigenious people carry animal totems and adore the attributes of say, the wolf...carry that love to its penultimate conclusion as Romulus and Remus felt!

Name:

Egdon Heath

Message:
The Skya Harp has medium heavy string tension. Its sound is rich, mellow and robust. It has the note range of the traditional Irish harp; "E" up to "G" (1 octave + 5 notes below middle "C" up to 2 octaves + 4 notes above middle "C"). 31 strings or 4+ octaves. The body, neck and pillar are made of solid Ash . The soundboard is laminated birch. Dimensions, including removable easy slide legs: 57" X 25". Soundboard width is 11". Weight is 16 lbs. Sharping levers are standard on on "F", "C", and "B" strings. The finish is Cordovan with a Celtic soundboard decoration.

Name:

Scotty

Message:
Isn't music like a butcher knife? You can cut a piece of cake with it, or you can cut a human throat with it. It's just an instrument used by humans to fulfill their own intentions.

It's been said that Christian music is the only music form defined by it's lyrics.

Name:

Egdon Heath

Message:
George W. Bush�s grandfather helped finance the Nazi Party. Arnold Schwarzenegger�s Austrian father volunteered for the infamous Nazi SA and became a ranking officer. And Karl Rove can�t hide his joy at witnessing �a Nazi rally� in support of Bush.

Name:	HO CHI MINH CITY
To:	Bar/Bat Mitzvahs of Zion
Re:	Kosher Cuisine or great art

Message:

Name:	Scotty
To:	Forum

Message:
The only thing more dangerous than an amateur economist is a professional economist.

Name:

These are Not Good Times (if you're a democrat)

In response to:
It's been said that Christian music is the only music form defined by it's lyrics.

Message:
say who? by christian do you mean white folks? they were the only ones civilised enough to invent the piano. you know in the colonies they were gyrating-drumming-cooking each and boning each others noses.

Name:	BONNIE
To:	Stooge the Nava-ho

In response to:
Which side of Hillary's face did you say proves that she had a stroke

Name:

day at the dog races

In response to:
you know in the colonies they were gyrating-drumming-cooking each and boning each others noses.

Name:

Scotty

Message:
I heard this from one of my professors. To protect him, no names will be revealed. This professor was about to get married. He went to the jewelers to get a wedding ring for his fiancee. The jeweler told him that he can have the inside of the ring engraved with the name of his fiancee for an additional $20 (remember, this was a LONG time ago). He said, "But that will reduce the resale value!" The jeweler was aghast. He said, "How can you say such a thing. You are a butcher!" "No," replied the professor, "I am jew".

Name:

Bill Moyers

In response to:
r helped finance the Nazi Party. Austrian volunteered for the infamous Nazi SA and became a ranking officer. A can�t hide his joy at witnessing �a Nazi rally� in support of Bush.

Name:	Dr. Nervaar
To:	Never Be President
Re:	Botox, nip & tuck, astringents, surface-tension enhancers

In response to:
QUESTION FOR RIGHT-WINGERS Which side of Hillary's face did you say proves that she had a stroke

Message:
The left side, the one with the Johnson & Johnson spray bandage goo on it! Hell, it may even be fleshtone-tinted Krylon Ignition Sealer!

Seriously, it is possible to add temporary support through restorative cosmetic work with hair net material woven into the natural hair, or careful work with an ordinary fall to give selective support to the face. None of this cosmetological repair can restore loss of facial muscle control, which may be temporary or permanent, either in whole or in part.

Name:	We Pee on Dine
Re:	homo roadkill

Message:
The trouble with being the Demmy frontrunner in Spring 05 is that its an awful long haul to fall 08...ask Nelson Rockefeller, George Romney, Ted Kennedy or Ed Muskie about the lasting glory of being the early frontrunner

Name:	Dr. Van Heusen
To:	jimmy
Re:	Tabanga O' The Emerald Isle

In response to:
The Skya Harp

Message:
That thing will never get anywhere on those silly little legs. Any weiner dog could run circles around it.

Name:	Clitoris Martini
To:	Das Lied B�sedeath

In response to:
left side, the one with the Johnson & Johnson spray bandage goo on it! Hell, it may even be fleshtone-tinted Krylon Ignition Sealer! Seriously, it is possible to add temporary support through restorative cosmetic work with hair net material woven into the natural hair, or careful work with an ordinary fall to give selective support to the face. None of this cosmetological repair can restore loss of facial muscle control, which may be temporary or permanent, either in whole or in part.

Message:
The most basic element in human nature is the need to impose one's will on another---you see it in sibling toddlers during their earliest stages of interaction, as well as in full grown men and women in the military, bureaucratic or corporate fields of endeavor.

Sociologists have long observed man's constant need to "lord it over" his fellow men in some way or other---most commonly by the use of money as a tool of oppression in places like America. But in other countries, the use of the military and governmental forces allows the men in control (of either the money or the military) to exercise this trait in order to improve their own self-image. That is, the dominator improves his notion of himself because he sees the less powerful underling serving his/her needs.

In warlike situations where ideologies are involved it is even more critical for the superior element to try to reduce the "humanity" of the inferior element. Where torture is involved, it is generally not the actual victim who is receiving the punishment in the mind of the torturer---but his/her own superior. That is, the torturer torments his/her victim but it is actually the torturer's own superior he/she would like to torturing. It's a classic case of transference. In the situation of Abu Garib for example the Americans were using the Iraqis as symbols for the men they REALLY wished to humiliate and torture---men like Rumsfeld and Bush who put them in this hellish situation.

The torturers at Abu Garib don't have enough education in religion or politics to actually hate Iraqis (i.e. the general speaking in San Diego who had to rationalize killing Iraqis by saying they "knock their women around"---more classic transference)---the Iraqi prisoners simply represented the most easily accessible person to take out their resentment on. When the CIA ops told them to "soften these guys up" that was like giving the soldiers "carte blanche" to exercise their frustrations with their own leaders.

It's rather easy to understand in basic psychological terms. Our species is plagued by a giant inferiority complex. We know in our heart of hearts that we are animals, BUT we believe we were endowed with a potential to escape that animalism by whatever Divine Source you believe in. However the equivocal nature of human beings makes them doubt their own higher human nature, MOST especially when a so-called superior tells them these other people are NOT really human and must be killed or tortured. (Or more subtly in the case of America, must be held to a subsistance minimum wage with no health care, forced overtime and no genuine chance to enjoy any appreciable free time.)

It's human nature to want to control others. Parents torture their kids in inummerable ways every day, then wonder why the kids try to kill them.

The human race is chock full of marvelous ironies and injustices and life is torture for most people, or rather, a series of ever-increasing disappointments capped off by an overwhelming anti-climax.

Life is an incredible test of spirit. The pain and suffering are an integral part of it. Without people who torture and oppress there would be no test. That's what it's all about. How we respond to the basic torture that is life.

Name:

Scotty

In response to:
George W. Bush�s grandfather helped finance the Nazi Party

Message:
What's the deal here?? Why are Americans afraid to tax the rich?? Social Security is broke. But you keep passing tax cuts for the rich. The tax burden has shifted from the wealthy corporate sector onto the shoulders of the individual American---and the individual American COWERS IN FEAR OF OBJECTING!

Are Americans truly ignorant of how they're being robbed, fleeced and suckered by the richest 6% of their fellow Americans? How can they NOT get it? President Bush pushes through tax cut after tax cut for the super-wealthy and then turns around and tells Americans they have to work another 5 yrs. from age 65 to 70----FOR WHAT??? TO HELP MAKE THE CORPORATE RICH EVEN RICHER???

The American Corporate structure has truly created a "voluntary slave class"---why don't you just let them eliminate retirement altogether?? Might as well just tell the rich "we love you and your money so much we'll just work till we die to make you and your grandkids safe from ever having to work".

I suppose on some subconscious level if you have nothing more substantial in your life than work and television, you might as well not have any free time or retirement anyway.

Name:	Chummy Bear
To:	Awl
Re:	When I was young, I wanted to marry a winch truck. Now that I'm older...

In response to:
many indigenious people carry animal totems and adore the attributes of say, the wolf...carry that love to its penultimate conclusion as Romulus and Remus felt! (Damned Roamins'll screw anything!)

Message:
I'm off to Churchill to marry the Polar Bears! Every damned one of them! Won't the neighbors be shocked!? Michael will be green with envy.

Then it's off to South America to marry a flock or two of those exotic high-dollar parrots. Crap! I think I'll just head for the Galapagos and marry everything that moves! WOW! Cool!

Name:

TED

In response to:
Are Americans truly ignorant of how they're being robbed, fleeced and suckered by the richest 6% of their fellow Americans?

Name:	Illenseer In-Jerng
To:	Tilataksesi tuotteen t�st� listasta

Message:
In reply to the claim by the Bush Administration that "The threat posed by stateless terrorists who draw no distinction between military and civilian targets is so dire that it requires tough new rules of engagement," remind me of other socio-political situations where governments have used similar arguements to apply tough rules and "tortures." (Torture by Proxy An interview with Jane Mayer: 2005-02-14 and 21) I'd like to share with you our book club review of the "Wainting for the Barbarian" by J.M. Coetzee in which the author presents a somewhat familiar arguement regarding government lies and justification for tough rules: The moderated of the meeting started the discussion. �Reading this well-written novel saturated with rich vocabulary was an uncommon experience for me,� said he, �and I was in awe of the brutal descriptions not from the physical or psychological tortures scenes, but from the manipulative lies and claims of the Empire�s clan against the illusive enemy in the campestral scenery surrounding the outpost; here he found the Empire�s jingoism harshly inhuman and reminiscent of Nazism, the Inquisition, and of the Babylonian treatment of innocent minorities.�

For the second member after reading the first ten pages, the depth of pain of human suffering was overwhelming, thus he was unable to continue. �I have seen the cry of the captives first hand,� the second member said, �and the harsh treatment of American POWs during the Vietnam War.� The third member found the simple sentences strongly constructed conveying devastating sufferings of the subjects.

The fourth member talked about the Magistrate, an aging and imperfect man who switched from being an Empire�s agent to the Barbarian sympathizer. �Who were the Barbarians?� Asked he. And for The fifth member, a south African doctor, the book was true to its cause and most powerful tool against the terror of governments who commit crimes against their opposing masses. �The people in Washington D.C. should read this book,� said he. �Though reflecting the brutality of governing forces is not pleasant, the blindness of the world towards their unjust actions as has been addressed in the very first page of the book was shocking,� said the sixth member who is a doctor in literature, �The writing style was very effective and reminded me of Mann,� added she.

The seventh member said that she didn�t read the book yet she wanted to come to the meeting and hear the discussions. �When we undergo a severely unpleasant experience, we use distancing tool,� said she, �It makes intolerable experiences less damaging to our souls. And in order to survive in the heat of disastrous calamity with an active imagination fully operational, the subjects suspend disbelief but distance themselves from the psychological side-effects of the action,� she explained, �a sine qua non, that is the reader or the Magistrate in the story goes beyond the simple physical pain and avoids being overwhelmed and destroyed by a severely brutal event albeit political, social, or natural.� The eighth member, a female anesthesiologist, began an in depth analysis of the book: �It has been written in late 1970s when the Apartheid (racial segregation and the supremacy of whites that had been traditionally accepted in South Africa prior to 1948, but in the general election of that year, Malan officially included the policy of apartheid in the Afrikaner Nationalist party platform, bringing his party to power for the first time) was ruling the twenty-five non-white South Africans to the hilt,� said she, �when the whites were giving their vote to the racist leaders to subdue and tame the other races.� And she added, �The book was published in 1980 in London by Secker & Warburg and produced an international uproar, for it addressed the black uprising against Apartheid.

The anesthesiologist read a poem by Steve Biko who was one of the foremost figures in South Africa's struggle for liberation, and who was murdered by the State (Empire) police when he was only 30.

The ninth member, a German-American, read a message from a couple who were missing the meeting, �This book describes in moving yet clear and concise language that governments will always lie to maintain and expand their power.

It happened at the golf of Tonkin, it happened in Iraq, and it will happen again elsewhere.� And she said that the book reminded her of the Mengele�s diary about the concentration camps where he described in a non-emotional and blatant way the pain and the suffering of Jews going through their hellish moments during cruel Nazis experiments.

The tenth member, a psychologist, spoke of human virtues and vices, �You find these human characteristics in both oppressed and oppressors.�

The eleventh member, a professor of law, presented the final words: �The book is written decades ago but reading it now is very appropriate and timely.� Said he, �It�s applicable to what we have done in Iraq and other places; and the most powerful point of the book is about the gloomy fate of the torturers and those who are tortured; the inhuman act destroys both,� concluded he, �It is the ill-minded man who turns into torturers.� Reading this, he quoted a bard, �I don't shed / what others call tears. / My pain is greater / than the small, visible / signs of weeping.� Moderator and reporter of the Club, Mo H. Saidi, MD

Name:

These are Not Good Times (if you're a democrat)

In response to:
The most basic element in human nature is the need to impose one's will on another

Message:
if you're a liberal socialist it is. the basic element of the rest of us is to be able to be left alone by frustrated little weakling control freaks like you.

Name:

Booze Fighter

In response to:
Are Americans truly ignorant of how they're being robbed, fleeced and suckered by the richest 6% of their fellow Americans? Message:

Name:	Wang Lung
To:	Fart Potato With Police Whistle In

In response to:
Bad Case Of YMCA Hoof & Mouth Disease there, Scotty/jimmy

Message:
Sociologists have long observed that many humans are driven by an urgent need to "lord it over" their fellow humans in some way or other---most commonly by the use of taxation as a tool of oppression in civilized places like America.

But in other countries, the direct use of the military and governmental forces allows the people in control (of either the money or the military, and often both, as seen in Cuba and other Communist dictatorships) unbridled license to exercise this trait in order to improve their own self-image through the oppression of others.

That is, the dominator improves his notion of herself/himself because she/he sees the less powerful underling serving her/his needs. Hillary clinton has made a career and a substantial fortune for herself through the art of manipulative oppression of her fellow humans.

Name:	Sneberger
To:	Grassburr
Re:	The Thompson Proceedure

In response to:
Dr. Thomspon's adjustment

Name:

Evans of Thibet

In response to:
With an explosive pop, Dr. Thompson erupted into the Nagual.

Message:
He came immediately under the influence of local gravity, and landed with a thud beneath a once and future palm tree. Upon orienting himself, Dr. Thompson found that he was sitting beneath a palm on a sandy beach in the company of Kurt Cobaine, who was plucking at a guitar and muttering mournfully to himself about himself.

Name:

Homeless in cyber space

In response to:
came immediately under the influence of local gravity, and landed with a thud beneath a once and future palm tree. Upon orienting himself, Dr. Thompson found that he was sitting beneath a palm on a sandy beach in the company of Kurt Cobaine, who was plucking at a guitar and muttering mournfully to himself about himself. "Damn! (thought Thompson) "There certainly is a Hell after

Name:	Irving Thalberg
To:	Board Of Prudes & Voyeurs
Re:	West Virginia Senate Cloakroom

In response to:
Lucious slave girls gone wild!

Message:
The Hollywood Corporate structure has truly created a "voluptuous slave class"-

Name:

These are Not Good Times (if you're a democrat)

In response to:
The American Corporate structure has truly created a "voluntary slave class"-

Message:
people are turning their backs on that stuff. where have you been? ever since reagan got the government off the backs of the people and reduced taxes-people have been starting their own companies. start you own company sherlock. quit friggen whining. no one is forcing anyone to work anywhere. take your 7th rate commie crapola to the tatoo parlor to peddle.

Name:	Sister Ellen
To:	Forum

Message:
Hey Madame Secretary, why not take some of the great advice you gave Syria and "stop meddling in domestic affairs of sovereign nations and stop trying to influence elections and policies in an effort to destabalize those governments which you don't like"...

You want other countries to stop building nukes but Rumsfeld goes right ahead with his plans for a "nuke bunker buster" which would burrow into the earth before it detonates.

You ask other nations not to meddle and interfere but then you turn around and do the same thing.

That which we sow, we shall reap in return...please remember that when our time comes due.

Name:	Mary
To:	Zoo Keeper

In response to:
Biden said on US television. "I think she is the most difficult obstacle for anyone being the nominee. She'd be the toughest person and I think Hillary Clinton is able to be elected president of the United States."

Message:
The rightwing forces in control of the mainstream media MUST by the current economic situation, deal in infotainment, and more seriously, they must take money in return for delivering a certain rightwing political agenda this is just the nature of a government controlled by a select group of very wealthy capitalist businessmen. They in turn must maintain the illusion of a "free press". That illusion is currently being tested . Also people really want to know the "unvarnished truth" of a situation that too, was once an ideal of the press. But again, ethics and integrity (esp. in the mainstream media) started down the slippery slope towards the payoff many many moons ago. Wash. DC runs on the very notion of payola. And any semblance of genuine unbiased reporting died when Edward R. Murrow left the scene. News people live and die by their sources. Those sources, like "Deep Throat", used to act on behalf of the public good. Now they want to be paid, preferrably from both sides.

The American public is being hoodwinked on an unprecedented scale, about Iraq, about Social Security, about the debt and the deficit and about their own safety the only place to find any real hard news is on the Web. The Mainstream Media sold out long ago, man. It's up to us on the Web to try to keep everyone informed as best we can try to open as many eyes as possible. The right-wing money will try to stop it somehow, because they can't afford an educated electorate. So watch your back people.

But lastly you must ask yourself does the average American really want to know the truth? Does he/she want to know their very subconscious minds are being messed with by the television and it's inanity? Do they really want to know about the psychological entrapment into lives of virtual slavery to a rightwing corporate bottom line? Do they really want to know about the villianous plunder of THEIR OWN PLANET? Do you or I? DO WE really want to know how bad it's gotten?

Name:

Toyota Matrix's will save the planet

In response to:
Do they really want to know about the villianous plunder of THEIR OWN PLANET? Do you or I? DO WE really want to know how bad it's gotten?

Name:	fearless leader
To:	fat girl with a synthesizer

In response to:
genuine unbiased reporting died when Edward R. Murrow left the scene.

Message:
don't kid yourself..fast eddie was on both roosevelt's & truman's leashes & he sat up/begged for Ike too

Name:

These are Not Good Times (if you're a democrat)

In response to:
don't kid yourself..fast eddie was on both roosevelt's & truman's leashes & he sat up/begged for Ike too

Name:	Dr. Scheckel
Re:	don't kid yourself..fast eddie was on both roosevelt's & truman's leashes & he s

In response to:
HUAC a Commie shop? Why not? People's Court!

Message:
FCC/FBI had the whip, and he knew it. He smoked Chesterfields to soothe and medicate his all-important "Y" zone. He was very vulnerable. Everyone was a team player in those days, although everyone wasn't necessarily palying for the home team. They still aren't.

Name:	big milton
To:	little muffi poo poo
Re:	strangers to the truth

In response to:
Everyone was a team player in those days, although everyone wasn't necessarily palying for the home team. They still aren't.

Message:
whatever murrow is held up by dan rather as supposedling representing isn't any more true than any of rather's other media fantasies

Name:	Capt. liberal
To:	forum

Message:
How powerful is Ruppert Murdoch? What are his current global holdings? Does he use a dumbing down of the view/reader to promote propaganda elsewhere? If Fox Cable reversed its current agenda could it bring down this administration? Is there a website that lists advertisers on/in his holdings?

Name:	Rasta Moo
To:	Freakazoids

Message:
While the current spate of library closings (Salinas, Ca & San Francisco) is a good start, we must urge all patriotic citizens to get behind the closure of ALL PUBLIC LIBRARIES in America. Public libraries are breeding grounds for liberal and independent thinking, which is very detrimental to the necessary unity America needs to fight the war on terror.

President Bush has stated many times that he does not read newspapers. Libraries are repositories for these newspapers which, as the President says, are useless and a waste of good paper.

The television tells me everything I need to know. Libraries with their subversive newspapers and books about so-called theories of evolution are a great danger to the oneness of thinking America needs to win the war on terror.

Libraries are a ridiculous waste of money and worse than that they encourage dissent and get the masses agitated. Most libraries carry blatant pornography and anti-American books and censorship has proved all but ineffectual in stopping them. Books and newspapers take away valuable time which could be spent watching television. Please help remove these dangerous institutions from our society.

Please help continue the good work started in Salinas (home of John Steinbeck, ironically enough, the man who wrote "Grapes of Wrath", a perverted tome slamming the rich). No doubt Salinas is better off without that kind of reading material, esp. available for free.

We must stop the over-education of the people at ALL COSTS! Exposure to contary ideas simply gets people confused. We should all follow the lead of President Bush and boycott newspapers. And help close these bastions of subversion and perversion---the PUBLIC LIBRARY!!

Name:	Gnubby Socket
To:	Freaked-out Lefty Loser Posting Porn & Soph Racist Poo
Re:	Mew! Mew! Mew!

In response to:
How powerful is Ruppert Murdoch? What are his current global holdings? Does he use a dumbing down of the view/reader to promote propaganda elsewhere? If Fox Cable reversed its current agenda could it bring down this administration? Is there a website that lists advertisers on/in his holdings?

Message:
How powerful is Ted Turner? What are his current global holdings? How many buffalo does he own, not counting his wife? Does he use a dumbing down of the view/reader to promote propaganda elsewhere? If CNN reversed its current agenda could it install a Hillary Clinton/Howard Dean/Pete Stark administration? Is there a website that lists advertisers on/in Ted Turner's holdings? Is Ted Turner behind the current scourge of penis enlargment nostrum ads?

Name:	Lupe Velez, Fersh As A Kitten In Clover
To:	Grizzled Old Moo Thing, Or Something Damn Near Like It
Re:	Tortilla Flat

In response to:
Please help continue the good work started in Salinas (home of John Steinbeck, ironically enough, the man who wrote "Grapes of Wrath", a perverted tome slamming the rich). No doubt Salinas is better off without that kind of reading material, esp. available for free.

Message:
The only reason you would go near a library would be to pop in and go online to fire off another gob of moo-poo to DU or to the Hillary Clinton Forum. You're no reader, MOO, or you'd be a better writer by now.

Name:	Editor
To:	Hillary Fan

In response to:
So, MegaLinker and Electronic Democracy are playing host to Nigerian net/wire-fraud schemes? The Hillary campaign and your prosepctive partners like that mess on the forum??

Name:	ET
To:	Argo

In response to:
Hey, read it yourself, three or four messages up..."We will be contacting you shortly to arrange the transfer of your property to our Nigerian division." Sounds like wire fraud/extortion...you going to leave that message up or do you just delete the nicer messages??

He asked for special treatment, including a separate dressing room and being allowed to miss practices and not having to travel with his team.

He was so despised by his team mates that when he hit his 500th home run, not one of them came out to congratulate him (2001).

When he signed with the San Francisco Giants, he asked for #24, the uniform they retired in honor of Willie Mays (1993).

He once said: 'Barry Bonds gets fined. But there's a whole lot of other people who should be fined. Even the fans should be fined.'

Name:

Observer

In response to:
Sounds like wire fraud/extortion...you going to leave that message up or do you just delete the nicer messages?? , then,,,,,,, Why don't you volunteer to help me instead of cra-pping on me?

Message:
Why doesn't she just say "Thanks for bringing it to my attention. No, I wouldn't want my investors or the campaign seeing such trash"?? .

Message:
Sounds like wire fraud/extortion...you going to leave that message up or do you just delete the nicer messages?? , then,,,,,,, Message: Why doesn't she just say "Thanks for bringing it to my attention. No, I wouldn't want my investors or the campaign seeing such trash"??

Name:	Sen. Robert C. Byrd
To:	Confidential, birmingham, (---.bois.qwest.net

Message:

Use this site to learn more about the federal government, the services that I offer, the "Klan and the projects in which I am involved. We only allow white Niggers here. If you have any questions or comments, please send me an e-mail.

Name:

Hmong

In response to:
is that you try to keep this information to yourself, should you have reasons to reject this offer, please destroy the mail as any leakage will be too bad for us. I want to have a very peacefull retirement life mate

Name:	Nelson Rockefeller-Mandela
Re:	S May Telemarketing

Message:
ounds like wire fraud/extortion...you going to leave that message up or do you just delete the nicer messages?? , then,,,,,,, Message: Why doesn't she just say "Thanks for bringing it to my attention. No, I wouldn't want my investors or the campaign seeing such trash"?? Message: doesn't hillary look radiant! oh look, she has her crooks with her doing p.r.!!!

Message:
You got to hep me, Ted. I'm having hot flashes! I'm hearing voices telling me things about Bush and that little Condyleezer girl. Hot flashes! They coming through two or three a day, Ted. Rather is senile, and Larry King won't pick up. You got to hep me Ted! You just got to hep me!

Name:

Message:
The Financial Crimes Division (FCD) plans, reviews, and coordinates criminal investigations involving Financial Systems Crimes, including bank fraud; access device fraud; telemarketing; telecommunications fraud (cellular and hard wire); computer fraud; automated payment systems and teller machines; direct deposit; investigations of forgery, uttering, alteration, false personation, or false claims involving U.S. Treasury Checks, U.S. Savings Bonds, U.S. Treasury Notes, bonds, and bills; electronic funds transfer (EFT) including Treasury disbursements and fraud within Treasury payment systems; fraud involving U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Coupons and Authority to Participate (ATP) cards; Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation investigations; Farm Credit Administration violations; fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents and fraudulent commercial, fictitious instruments,foreign securities. The Division also coordinates the activities of the U.S. Secret Service Organized Crimes Program, and oversees money laundering investigations.

Name:	Sen. Robert C. Byrd
Re:	What they're sayin' about me

Message:

"Robert Byrd is already recognized as an American icon. Without question, when history is written, Senator Byrd will hold a prominent place as a Senate legend."

Senate Republican Leader Bill Frist,
R-Tennessee

"Robert C. Byrd is truly a legend in his own time. He stands larger than life, not only for his accomplishments, but also for his principles."

Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle,
D-South Dakota

"Bob Byrd personifies what our Founding Fathers were thinking about when they were thinking about a United States Senate. He brings the kind of qualities that the Founding Fathers believed were so important for service to the Nation."

Senator Edward M. Kennedy,
D-Massachusetts

"The final chapter in Robert Byrd's history is not likely to be written for some time, yet it is safe to say that he has set a standard as a Senator, as a legislative leader, and as a statesman that will stand among the best as long as there is a Senate."

Former Senator Bob Dole,
R-Kansas

"His number one priority has always been the people of West Virginia. It has been a great example for all of us to never lose sight of the fact that you are elected by the people from your State and the people in your State should have first priority."

Senator Harry Reid,
D-Nevada

"There are still those people, like Senator Byrd, who exemplify the qualities of leadership strong personal character and a sense of virtues and principles that inspire others to greatness."

Senator Mike Enzi,
R-Wyoming

"When future historians are writing about the 20th century Senate, Senator Robert Byrd will surely be remembers as one of the giants who followed in the footsteps of Henry Clay and Daniel Webster."

Former Republican Senator and now Governor of Alaska Frank Murkowski

"It has been said that great men are like eagles. They do not flock together. You find them one at a time, soaring alone, using their skill and their strengths to reach new heights and to seek new horizons. Such a man and such an eagle is Robert Byrd."

Former Senator Sam Nunn,
D-Georgia

Name:	ET
To:	Observer

In response to:
Why doesn't she just say "Thanks for bringing it to my attention. No, I wouldn't want my investors or the campaign seeing such trash"??

Message:
Why couldn't he alert me in an ordinary way instead of slamming me? Is that too much to ask?

Or have we reached that time in our history that civility toward anyone on the left is forbidden or impossible?

Name:

jimmy

Message:
A father watched his daughter playing in the garden. He smiled as he reflected on how sweet and innocent his little girl was. Suddenly, she just stopped and stared at the ground.

He went over to her and noticed she was looking at two spiders mating. "Daddy, what are those two spiders doing?" she asked. "They're mating," her father replied. "What do you call the spider on top, Daddy?" she asked. "That's a Daddy Longlegs," her father answered. "So, the other one is Mommy Longlegs?" the little girl asked. "No," her father replied. "Both of them are Daddy Longlegs." The little girl thought for a moment, then took her foot and stomped them flat. "Well, that might be O.K. in California and Massachusetts, but we're not having any of that crap in Texas!"

Name:	Disgusted by all of theses fawning prostitutes
Re:	Robbing your neighbors

In response to:
His number one priority has always been the people of West Virginia. It has been a great example for all of us to never lose sight of the fact that you are elected by the people from your State and the people in your State should have first priority."

Name:	Eochaidh Rightbrain
To:	Wang Lung, jimmy, and the Anti-Semites Child Molesters in This Forum
Re:	Ethnocentric

In response to:
Sociologists have long observed that many humans are driven by an urgent need to "lord it over" their fellow humans in some way or other---most commonly by the use of taxation as a tool of oppression in civilized places like America.

But in other countries, the direct use of the military and governmental forces allows the people in control (of either the money or the military, and often both, as seen in Cuba and other Communist dictatorships) unbridled license to exercise this trait in order to improve their own self-image through the oppression of others.

Fidel Castr ...

You're coming from and recognize only the Male-Mono-Theistic-Christian mind-set. Which means that you think that your delusions are the only truth and that they apply to everyone everywhere. You're wrong and you're NOT the norm.

I'm sick and tired of your Anti-Semitic, America first, No Other Way Lies. You post racist, sexist (using Senator Clinton as a Straw Man), and Anti-Semitic messages that are in reality, symptoms of your limited in-the-box half life. No wonder you kid your-selfs into thinking that there's an after-life of eternal bliss for YOU. This life with all its different cultures, religions, and colors of people is too much for you Mono-theists. So, all you can do is destroy this reality for your fantasy.

This groundbreaking book proposes that the rise of alphabetic literacy--the process of reading and writing--fundamentally reconfigured the human brain, and brought about profound changes in history, religion, and gender relations. Making remarkable connections across brain function, myth, and anthropology, Leonard Shlain shows why agricultural preliterate cultures were principally informed by holistic, right-brain modes that venerated the Goddess and feminine values and images.

Writing, particularly alphabets, drove cultures toward linear left-brain thinking. This shift upset the balance between men and women, initiating the decline of the feminine, and also ushered in the reign of patriarchy and misogyny. Examining the cultures of the Israelites, Greeks, Christians, and Muslims, he reinterprets many myths and parables in light of his theory. Shlain traces the effect of literacy on the Dark Ages, Mary, Gutenberg, the Reformation, and the witch hunts.

Shlain ends his book with an optimistic appraisal that the proliferation of images in film, TV, graphics, and computers is once again reconfiguring the brain by encouraging right hemispheric modes of thought and bringing about the reemergence of the feminine.

Name:	Mark Brenner
To:	Hillary Clinton
Re:	You are definitely way above this type of liberal

Message:

Gen. George S. Patton once said, �Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.�

Those on the left seem to be cynical about everything to do with the war on terrorism. I think if Patton were alive today he would say liberals lack the courage to fight the enemy and would slap a few of them around.

Liberals are also cynical about the way the military handles terrorist prisoners. I am sure Patton would tell liberals they lack the basic understanding of warfare and prisoner handling and challenge them to spend a few days on the front line to see how things are really done. Then he would slap a few of them around once again.

A soldier�s job is to kill the enemy, or as Patton also said, �The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.� The sooner liberals understand the true meaning of war, the sooner we can make the �other bastard� die for his country.

To prove how out of touch liberals are with reality these days look at the uproar that occurred because of comments made by Lt. Gen. James Mattis. Gen. Mattis, who has commanded troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, was recently speaking at a forum in San Diego about strategies for the war on terror.

Mattis said, �Actually, it�s a lot of fun to fight. You know, it�s a hell of a hoot. ... It�s fun to shoot some people. I�ll be right upfront with you, I like brawling.� Gen. Mattis is the kind of general I want leading our troops into battle. Marines are there to kill the enemy, not coddle them. They need a leader like Gen. Mattis.

But, of course there was uproar by liberals. Jeff McCausland, director of the Leadership in Conflict Initiative at inson College in Carlisle, Pa claimed that, �Clearly for an officer from any service to say that publicly is unprofessional and inappropriate and sends a terrible message to subordinates.� I disagree; I think the general�s troops loved the message sent and probably feel the same way.

What do liberals think Marines are doing in Iraq? Would liberals rather Gen. Mattis had said, �I hate to fight...I think war is much too bloody...I think we should stay home and polish our nails and listen to show tunes.�

Liberals, especially young liberals seem to forget that war is a very nasty thing. It is not a panty raid on a women�s dormitory at a local college. In battle, the enemy has one thing in mind, he wants to kill. War is a contest of kill, or be killed and it is not nice.

The closest most leftists have come to battle is fighting police at various protests in the United States and around the world. Their idea of warfare is yelling obscenities at local police and hurling the occasional rock or bottle. A liberal�s badge of honor is spending a few hours in jail after being arrested at a protest in Seattle or Washington, DC and getting his or her mug shots taken.

Yet, even with their lack of experience in real warfare, liberals seem to think they have all the answers about how the military should treat captured terrorists and how best to fight the war on terrorism. Some liberals even claim that the US Constitution protects terrorists.

First, prisoners captured in Iraq are not leftist protestors staging a sit-in on the steps of a Federal Building singing �Give Peace a Chance�. Prisoners in Iraq have not studied �Activism 101�and have never heard of Martin Sheen, Janeane Garofalo or Al Franken.

They are terrorist thugs who behead captured men and women showing no remorse in the act. They are murderers trained by Al-Qaeda or other terrorist organizations. They want to kill American men, women and children. They have no rights.

Prisoners captured in Iraq are not handled with kid gloves and gently placed in a paddy wagon like liberal protestors arrested in Seattle. They are trying to kill Americans when captured and would love nothing better than to kill their captor and escape to fight another day. Captured terrorists should be treated like a rabid dog waiting to bite its handler and thrown in a cage.

I really do not care how inhumanely we treat the captured terrorists being held at Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghraib prison. They are murderers and thugs. I think terrorists should lose all human rights once they take the path of terrorism. A tough approach is the only deterrent these killers will understand.

If making a terrorist wear a pair of women�s panties on his head will help save one innocent life by gaining information on future terrorist acts, it is worth the effort. I think Victoria Secret and Fredrick�s of Hollywood should contribute panties to the war effort. Maybe we would get a few more confessions.

� Steve Darnell is a self-syndicated columnist and can be reached at comments@stevedarnell.com.

Name:	Never On Sunday /Yellow Bird Medley
Re:	A New Age Is Coming

In response to:
Or have we reached that time in our history that civility toward anyone on the left is forbidden or impossible? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
Bush Monkey has ruined everything. After the impeachment, Bush will go to the dungeons of the World Court and Hillary will be in there. She will strengthen our Social Security and put shock collars on the wetbacks. That will take care of THEM. Everyone will be nice then, and dogs will not bark after 6 PM.

Name:

Wang

In response to:
Wang Lung, jimmy, and the Anti-Semites Child Molesters in This Forum Re: Ethnocentric

Name:

Muff Man

Message:
P Align="Left"> Law & Alcoholism - A Theory of Jurishprudensh

(a) Cockblocking is defined in the common law as an unlawful interference by the cockblocker with the cockblockee's chances of getting play from the target. The target must be a specific person; merely throwing off the cockblockee's game is insufficient. To analogize from Justice Cardozo, proof of cockblocking in the air, so to speak, will not do. See Martin v. Herzog, 126 N.E. 814, 816 (N.Y. 1920).

(b) The cockblocker is the person who engages in cockblocking, that is, the actual tortfeasor.

(c) The cockblockee is the person who was cockblocked. Only the cockblockee has standing to sue on a claim of cockblocking, although the law of agency may apply under appropriate circumstances.

(e) For the purposes of this treatise, the cockblockee will be assumed to be male and the target female; the cockblockee will be assumed to be male or female, depending on the type of cockblocking at issue. However, any actor may be male or female. � 1.2 - Play

It is not necessary that the plaintiff would have actually engaged in intercourse with the target; rather, there must only have been a substantial likelihood that the cockblockee would have hooked up. While to be actionable, cockblocking requires something more than a mere kiss, what counts as "play" shall be determined with reference to the local community in which the encounter took place. For example, evidence that the cockblockee would have engaged in a "hot make-out session" may be all that is required (for example, at a high school party), while other times the cockblockee must prove that "dude, she would have totally gone down on me" in others, see, e.g., College.

Hillary_Clinton_Forum_1340

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