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OP-ED COLUMNIST

Crisis of Confidence

By DAVID BROOKS

t's pretty clear we're passing through another pivot point in American foreign policy. A year ago, we were the dominant nation in a unipolar world. Today, we're a shellshocked hegemon.

We still face a world of threats, but we're much less confident about our own power. We still know we can roll over hostile armies, but we cannot roll over problems. We get dragged down into them. We can topple tyrants, but we don't seem to be very good at administering nations. Our intelligence agencies have made horrible mistakes. Our diplomacy vis-à-vis Western Europe has been inept. We have a military filled with heroes, but the atrocities of a few have eclipsed the nobility of the many.

In short, we are on the verge of a crisis of confidence.

Yesterday, members of the administration were once again called to Capitol Hill to testify about a gruesome mistake. Once again investigations were begun and commissions were formed. Once again those of us who support this war and this administration were hard pressed to excuse what had just happened. Once again, baffling questions arose. Whose bright idea was it to keep Saddam's gulag open as a U.S. prison, anyway?

It's hard not to be impressed with the way the military crisply opened criminal investigations into the depravity at Abu Ghraib. It's hard not to be appalled by the Pentagon's blindness to the psychological catastrophe these photos were bound to create. Even yesterday, months after the atrocities were first known, Rumsfeld and company were incapable of answering the most elemental questions from John McCain, Lindsey Graham and others about who was in charge of the prison, and why the photos weren't immediately seen as weapons of mass morale destruction. If Rumsfeld had held a conference and pre-emptively presented these photos to the world, with his response already set, things would not look nearly as bad as they do now.

Believe me, we've got even bigger problems than whether Rumsfeld keeps his job. We've got the problem of defining America's role in the world from here on out, because we are certainly not going to put ourselves through another year like this anytime soon. No matter how Iraq turns out, no president in the near future is going to want to send American troops into any global hot spot. This experience has been too searing.

Unfortunately, states will still fail, and world-threatening chaos will still ensue. Tyrants will still aid terrorists. Genocide will still occur. What are we going to do then? Who is going to tackle the future Milosevics, the future Talibans? If you were one of those people who thought the world was dangerous with an overreaching hyperpower, wait until you get a load of the age of the global power vacuum.

In this climate of self-doubt, the "realists" of right and left are bound to re-emerge. They're going to dwell on the limits of our power. They'll advise us to learn to tolerate the existence of terrorist groups, since we don't really have the means to take them on. They're going to tell us to lower our sights, to accept autocratic stability, since democratic revolution is too messy and utopian.

That's a recipe for disaster. It was U.S. inaction against Al Qaeda that got us into this mess in the first place. It was our tolerance of Arab autocracies that contributed to the madness in the Middle East.

To conserve our strategy, we have to fundamentally alter our tactics. To shore up public confidence, the U.S. has to make it clear that it is considering fresh approaches.

We've got to acknowledge first that the old debates are obsolete. I wish the U.S could still go off, after Iraq, at the head of "coalitions of the willing" to spread democracy around the world. But the brutal fact is that the events of the past year have discredited that approach. Nor is the U.N. a viable alternative. A body dominated by dictatorships is never going to promote democratic values. For decades, the U.N. has failed as an effective world power.

We've got to reboot. We've got to come up with a global alliance of democracies to embody democratic ideals, harness U.S. military power and house a permanent nation-building apparatus, filled with people who actually possess expertise on how to do this job.

From the looting of the Iraqi National Museum to Abu Ghraib, this has been a horrible year. The cause is still just, but to keep it moving forward, we have to reinvent the enterprise. source...

Name:	a person
Re:	Matamoros

In response to:
Name: Matamoros Message: I love Lyndie England! Whip that Muslim dog! We should have used nukes like I've been saying all along. Then none of this would have had to happen. BTW- Why the hell are we apologizing, did they apologize for burning those guys in Fallujah? Muslims are dogs. They need this.

Message:
You are disgusting. There are well over a billion muslims, all ordinary, peaceful people. You demonstrate why people hate america, and the west in general. The worst of humanity are people like Lynndie England and people like you. Most people in the world earn less than two dollars a day and live in horrible conditions you can't imagine. I would like to see you being tortured, or even living in Iraq. By the way, I am a middle class non-muslim, but I understand just a little the third world and the sanctity of life. You arrogant little turd.

Name:	Matamoros
To:	A person (a stupid person)
Re:	Your arrogant huffery

In response to:
You are disgusting. There are well over a billion muslims, all ordinary, peaceful people. You demonstrate why people hate america, and the west in general. The worst of humanity are people like Lynndie England and people like you. Most people in the world earn less than two dollars a day and live in horrible conditions you can't imagine. I would like to see you being tortured, or even living in Iraq. By the way, I am a middle class non-muslim, but I understand just a little the third world and the sanctity of life. You arrogant little turd.

Message:
You are the arrogant turd.

You have expressed ugly emotions merely for a person you assumed that you were better than. "I would like to see you being tortured, or ..." YOUR WORDS, not mine.

You have never even been to the third world. You don't know that these people mostly deserve their lot. Especially the Muslim vermin. I have actually been to many countries in North Africa and the Middle East and currently live in the developing world.

Our civilizations are clashing. Millions will die. Better them than us, better for us to hit them before they fully launch this war and develop very deadly biological, chemical and god forbid, nuclear weapons. You ignorant liberals imagine that all of these unwashed third world masses are innocent doe-eyed puppy dogs who just need to be loved. WRONG. They want you dead.

Just like it took two nukes to straighten out the Japanese, it will take massive attacks on the civilian populations of each and every Muslim country to stop this madness. Nothing less.

Remember Japan, they were a nation stricken by madness, ran by a leader who was regarded as a demi-God. They were the original suicide bombers - flying kamikaze airplanes into Americans. They were trying to terror bomb our cities using balloons... the equivalent of ballistic missiles for the time. They were torturing civilians and committing atrocities all over Asia.

Then a DEMOCRAT nuked them, twice, and destroyed their religion, knocked down their demi-God, and today they are the nicest people. But we had to kill a million of them first.

There is hope for the Muslims. I hope we don't have to kill every last one of them, but it will certainly take at least 20 thermonuclear bombs to make them see the light. We will have to destroy Mecca and Medina and pull down all their Mosques. Nothing short of total victory will cow these 7th century madmen.

You said, "You demonstrate why people hate america"...

Well, just exactly who do the Muslims like? NOBODY! They are murdering everyone they come in contact with. Well it's time to put a stop to it once and for all. Peaceful methods will not work with a violent movement. An iron fist is what is needed. A BIG ONE.

Name:	Chupacabris
To:	Lost Post on a Lost Forum
Re:	I like the post Smdly

Message:
When people favours gold over life itself, then they can be considered Capitalists.

People who hate Comunism are people who hate other people. Raceism is a big part of it. They find it easier to murder people for money and they try to make it legal so that it can be done over and over again. It is also segregation.

Never trust a capitalist, they are only out for one thing, souls with money. Capitalists treat everybody likes "Fools with money".

Capitalists are very selfish and greedie, not to mention capible of murder, because they have no soul.

Republicans see the people only as assets, and potential so that Republicans can get rich and powerful so as to become ever more powerful in the future so as to undermind civil rights because some ways to make money might be morally wrong, but if it can be made legal then they can go on and murder, and collect the profit (cigarets). They can black-mail or "corner" the people into buying the right products and not the wrong ones. I maybe dying because as an epileptic I am forced underground, forced to buy the other guy's product. I wish I can treat myself because at least it won't cost me an "arm & a leg", instead they fixed it where it might cost me a lung. I now have to go see the doctor because I might have developed complications with breathing. If the results is bad, then I may have become a victim of capitalism and may even loose my life because of my stripped civil rights. How can Tobacco companies gain the right to murder for money, when people are doing life for the same thing? I may die because I choose not to "Pay" to live. Really, it is much cheaper in the longrun to die. Now what the is that? I will reveal my name if the doctor's results are bad. "I" might become a living victom of "legalized crime" (I certainly won't be the last). Maybe I might end up "swept under the mat" like old paperwork. Is this our future? Do you want this to happen to you? IF we are all going to die, then let's die standing up. If I am going to be an example, then let's "all" set our own example. The world is going to end because Politicians will go to any means to keep their power and wealth.

Name:

weatherman

Message:
To become informed and hold government accountable, the general public needs to obtain news that is comprehensive yet interesting and understandable, that conveys facts and outcomes, not cosmetic images and airy promises.

Name:

weatherman

In response to:
You are a victom of bad spelling and the NEA which is probably why you're a communist.

Name:	Rupert Murdock
Re:	FOX is Tops

In response to:
To become informed and hold government accountable, the general public needs to obtain news that is comprehensive yet interesting and understandable, that conveys facts and outcomes, not cosmetic images and airy promises.

Name:

Scotty Fan

Message:
From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.

Name:

Scotty Fan

Message:
The point of public relations slogans like "Support our troops" is that they don't mean anything... That's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody's going to be against, and everybody's going to be for. Nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything. Its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something: Do you support our policy? That's the one you're not allowed to talk about.

Name:	American
To:	The Beguiled and the Manipulated
Re:	Leftist Propaganda Presented As News And News Commentary

In response to:
We have a military filled with heroes, but the atrocities of a few have eclipsed the nobility of the many.

Message:
For this we can thank our virulently anti-American, Anti-Constitutional, and anti-Republican Media Elite. They will go to any length to undermine the Bush administration in any way that they can. They are a small group of dedicated radical Leftists who, thanks to their professional positions in the news media, have a very loud and pervasive voice, and they mean to destroy the Bush administration and the small Republican majority in the Congress. They work in cooperative synergy with their counterparts in the European media elites and indirectly with the (mostly government-controlled) media of our sworn enemies.

Name:	No Controlling Legy Authority
To:	forum
Re:	Geneva Convention unknown or ignored by Terrorists, Iraqis

In response to:
Geneva Convention was signed by mostly Western countries not middle east, tunisia, Saudi etc who were on the German side during World War II.

Message:
Daniel Pearl 'refused to be sedated before his throat was cut' By Massoud Ansari in Karachi (Filed: 09/05/2004)

Horrifying new details of how Daniel Pearl, the murdered Wall Street Journal reporter, met his death have emerged from the interrogation of new suspects by Pakistani police.

Pearl, who was kidnapped in Karachi in January 2002, knew for several hours that he was about to be killed, but resisted repeated attempts to sedate him, police now believe.

He was fully aware of what was happening when the Arab extremists who took control during his final days cut his throat, according to information gleaned from Pakistani militants now in police custody.

Shocking video film of Pearl's murder, seen around the world via the internet, was in fact a partial reconstruction of what had happened a few moments earlier, officers have been told.

The camera operator made a mistake and missed the moment of his death, which his murderers then re-enacted, before decapitating the reporter.

The revelations have fuelled anger among police investigators that at least a dozen leading suspects in the kidnap and murder of the 38-year-old journalist have been arrested, but have not been charged or tried in connection with his death.

Some have been accused of unrelated - and mostly lesser - offences. The three most recently captured suspects have not yet been charged, and their arrests have never been officially announced.

The only cases brought so far in connection with Pearl's death have been those against Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, the British-born al-Qaeda terrorist, who was convicted of kidnap and conspiracy to murder the American journalist, and three others who played relatively minor roles in the kidnapping.

All were given life sentences for conspiracy to kidnap, but are now appealing against their convictions in the country's high court. Pakistani authorities are said to be reluctant to put the new suspects on trial lest their evidence helps the first four win their appeals.

A legal official said: "No matter what Sheikh is guilty of, if the police were forced to change their account of what happened because of newfound evidence, he might be given the benefit of the doubt on everything else, and be set free immediately."

Omar Sheikh, the mastermind of the kidnapping, set the trap which lured Pearl to his captors. He put the reporter in touch with a man who, he pretended, would introduce him to an extremist Muslim leader whom Pearl wished to interview.

Contrary to evidence given during Omar Sheikh's trial, police now believe he may not have been present when Pearl met Sajid Jabbar, the go-between, at a Karachi restaurant. It was after the meeting that Pearl disappeared.

Investigators say that senior officials in the Sindh police - the force responsible for Karachi - are "petrified" that if militants arrested in the past year were tried for their part in Pearl's murder, their earlier case against Omar Sheikh might unravel in the courts.

One official close to the investigation said: "Even if these men have admitted their roles in the kidnapping and killing of Daniel Pearl, we simply cannot charge them because of its impact on that earlier case."

Police have pieced together new details of how Pearl was held in captivity for two weeks, and eventually killed, from those involved - including two who witnessed his final hours.

Many of the details were unknown even to Mariane Pearl, the reporter's widow, who wrote a moving memoir about his death, A Mighty Heart.

They now believe that Pearl was not forcibly abducted from the restaurant, but at first went willingly with Sajid in his car, while four other militants followed. He was driven to the house on the outskirts of Karachi where he was to be held and killed.

There, four others who would guard Pearl dragged him inside at gun-point, tying his hands and blindfolding him. "Even at this point, Pearl didn't realise that he was already in trouble, and kept asking why they were behaving like this," one of those in custody told police.

He was held for two weeks before he was killed but made at least one escape attempt - according to the arrested men, just three days before he was murdered.

"He tried to scale the wall but couldn't do it because both his hands were tied," one told police. His captors said that Pearl had difficulty sleeping.

They brought him English-language newspapers and magazines to help him pass the time and let him exercise inside the room.

His efforts to converse with his captors were limited since they could speak only broken English. However, one said: "He made clear that he was a Jew and his wife a Buddhist. He used to imitate the way she prayed, and sing hymns and songs whenever he thought about her."

Eventually, Saud Memon, who is believed to be al-Qaeda's chief financier in Pakistan and owned the house where Pearl was held, contacted a group of Arab extremists who took over custody and decided he would be killed.

Armed with a video camera, three Arabs arrived, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, third-in-command of al-Qaeda - since handed over to the Americans.

For the first time, police have now identified the others as Abdul Rahman and Nasrullah - both Kuwaiti nationals fluent in Arabic, Balochi and Persian. Authorities are still searching for them.

On the day Pearl died, two of his Pakistani guards were present: Ali Khan, arrested just two weeks ago, and Fazal Karim, an employee of Saud Memon. One recently told interrogators how the Arabs tried to sedate Pearl, first by injection, then by doctoring his tea.

"I think he understood that he was going to be killed and refused to accept tea or to gulp pills. He even did not allow himself to be injected."

Before he was murdered, they forced him to relate his Jewish and express sympathy with detainees in Guantanamo Bay before putting the knife to his throat once - and then again, a second time, owing to the faulty camera.

One of those present told police: "When they were slaughtering him in front of me I thought it was a bad dream. I had seen the cutting of a goat or chicken many times, but had never seen a human being slaughtered in front me."

Karim is among those who have been arrested and jailed for other crimes: narcotics smuggling, in his case. Investigators fear that Khan will also escape prosecution for his part in Pearl's capture and death.

Five others who took part in Pearl's capture or guarded him are behind bars for their part in unrelated sectarian killings, and Pakistani authorities have no plans to press charges related to Pearl. Authorities have yet to reveal publicly that they are holding three of the suspects: Khan, Naeem Bokhari and Faisal Bhatti.

Last night members of Pearl's family said they wanted all those involved in the journalist's death brought to book, and urged Pakistani authorities to hasten the hearing of Omar Sheikh's appeal.

In a statement to The Sunday Telegraph, Mariane Pearl and her parents-in-law, Ruth and Judea Pearl, said: "We are eager to see justice served and the truth come out. We are especially waiting to see a just conclusion of Omar Saeed Sheikh's conviction and the apprehension of all those involved."

Name:	watcher for the cheesecake
To:	Jake, the foot man

In response to:
Where's the rest of this person, if it is a girl?

Message:
My filter is over-zealous! The picture got cut off. Speaking of cut off, why is it such a big deal to strip search for weopons, record tatoos, etc. It has even happened to manic street preachers in Dallas, Texas. And they left him naked all night and protesting, preaching,etc. Poor ba5tard got chilled. Hint to the wise. If you are a fat Iraqi, you have been hogging food from starving children.

Thousands of Kird etc children starved under Saddam Hussein because the food budget was spent for "sports" equipment like plastics/people shreaders. Oh yes, Saddam's son brutalized/hospitalized a losing player. Looks like all will walk anyway, thanks to a French lawyer and Saddam being coddled. Let the poor thing keep his head lice, don't humiliate him with a doctor's physical, he might catch cold while being checked for an hour.

Name:	Smedley
To:	SpIndividual

In response to:
Clinton = Average of $37.20 billion per year over 8 years;

Message:
you really are a pathetic liar. According to THIS the national debt increased about $1.6 Trillion over the Clinton administration.

Name:	UN fan on ceiling
To:	Scotty fan

In response to:
The UN has nosed into dozens of civil wars and solved absolutely none of them. They are very likely to get UN soldiers killed fighting for tyrants who pay a bigger bribe to Kofi than the opposition can afford.

Message:
Obviously we are in Kosovo because the Muslim KLA drug /Communist faction is more generous with its ill-gotten gains than the Serbs who were getting blown away from sniper ambush trying to make drug busts. Sometimes it is best to stay out of civil wars because both sides have dirty hands. Prayer always benefits those that G_d favors.

Name:	Relative Morality
To:	American

In response to:
For this we can thank our virulently anti-American, Anti-Constitutional, and anti-Republican Media Elite. They will go to any length to undermine the Bush administration in any way that they can. They are a small group of dedicated radical Leftists who, thanks to their professional positions in the news media, have a very loud and pervasive voice, and they mean to destroy the Bush administration and the small Republican majority in the Congress. They work in cooperative synergy with their counterparts in the European media elites and indirectly with the (mostly government-controlled) media of ...

Message:
Congratualtions, you are a true member of the Relative Morality Society. Yes, we must blame the prison abuse atrocities on the media. If the media and those nasty Muslims didn't publish these photos there would be no abuse and we could all be happy.

Name:	Smedley
To:	UN fan on ceiling

Message:
This really is an unfair statement as a lot of those bribes went to the French and Russians.

Name:	Realist
To:	Scotty Fan

In response to:
In the process, the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people...

Message:
You are so pessimistic.
We didn't cause the end of life,
but the beginning of death!

These people needed it.

Name:	***
To:	Matamoros

In response to:
You said, "You demonstrate why people hate america"...

Well, just exactly who do the Muslims like? NOBODY! They are murdering everyone they come in contact with. Well it's time to put a stop to it once and for all. Peaceful methods will not work with a violent movement. An iron fist is what is needed. A BIG ONE.

Message:
Our civilizations are clashing. Millions will die. Better them than us, better for us to hit them before they fully launch this war and develop very deadly biological, chemical and god forbid, nuclear weapons. You ignorant liberals imagine that all of these unwashed third world masses are innocent doe-eyed puppy dogs who just need to be loved. WRONG. They want you dead.

"Well, just exactly who do the Muslims like? NOBODY! They are murdering everyone they come in contact with."

As Web master of Shadow Protest I am urging people to volunteer for the Republican National Convention, attend all the volunteer orientation sessions but not show up for their assigned volunteer shift.

Name:	American
To:	The Beguiled And The Manipulated
Re:	t's pretty clear we're passing through another pivot point in American foreign p

In response to:
Congratualtions, you are a true member of the Relative Morality Society. Yes, we must blame the prison abuse atrocities on the media. If the media and those nasty Muslims didn't publish these photos there would be no abuse and we could all be happy.

Message:
What BULLSHIt! I do not condone the prison abuses. I do not object the accurate reporting of the steps taken to correct the problems and PUNISH THE PERPETRATORS.

Name:

The American People

In response to:
you really are a pathetic liar. According to THIS the national debt increased about $1.6 Trillion over the Clinton administration. Divided over eight years, that averages about $200 billion per year.

Message:
How can anybody argue with SPINdividual, he gets his facts fresh from his anus.

Name:

Why do left wingers lie so much?

In response to:
From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.

Name:	American
To:	Hopelessly Beguiled
Re:	The NYT, et al, will tell YOU what YOU want to hear!

In response to:
Yes, we must blame the prison abuse atrocities on the media.

Message:
Go right ahead. If you are that God-damned stupid or ideologically blinded, there is really no hope for you. Perhaps you really can't see the political hay that is being made of the prison incidents by majority Leftist American and European media Elites. I expect this kind of thing from Al Jazeera andm Third World government and dictatorship-controlled media. Unfortunately, I can also expect it from the NYT, LA Times, NPR, CNN, and most all of the David Brookses, of whom there are many.

Name:	American
To:	?????
Re:	Matamoros is an evil bastard who calls for mass murder!

In response to:
Matamoros eyes are open. He sees the future

Message:
Matamoros is a hate-driven racist, anti-Muslim bigot of the worst sort who calls for the mass murder of millions in most every one of his messages.

Name:	Uncle Wiggley
To:	Utterly Beguiled
Re:	Hillary Regina

In response to:
HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTS BUSH IN AR ON TERROR!

Message:
BEIRUT (AFP) -- Former US first lady Hillary Clinton said the "stubborn" policies of President George W. Bush's administration were endangering stability in the Middle East, a daily reported Monday. The New York Democrat senator told the London-based Arab daily Asharq al-Awsat that the Bush administration had not been "frank" with the American people concerning the human and financial costs in Iraq. She said the United States was in trouble because it could not abandon Iraq, nor provide enough manpower to run the country, nor gather world allies willing to provide the necessary assistance for the gigantic task. She described the Bush administration as "stubborn and arrogant" for refusing to admit its mistakes which were endangering US soldiers, Iraqis and stability in the Middle East. Clinton said the June 30 deadline for handing over sovereignty to the Iraqis was a "last chance" not to be missed.

Name:	Democrat
To:	Republicans in Free-Fall

In response to:
As Web master of Shadow Protest I am urging people to volunteer for the Republican National Convention, attend all the volunteer orientation sessions but not show up for their assigned volunteer shift.

We will lie about the lies Republicans tell. We will lie about our reasons for going to war. We will lie about the WMD. We will lie about the Niger yellowcake. We will lie about the what the Clinton's do, and what they do not do. We will lie about Kerry. We will lie about Kerry's wife. We will lie to ourselves about how honest we are and what liars the liberals are. We will lie to ourselves that only Democrats are evil. We will lie to ourselves that what we are doing is God's will and the Democrats are not. We will lie to ourselves that we are superior. We will lie to ourselves that God has blessed Repulicans with moral authority but liberals are scum.

Name:	Imagine!
To:	Incredibley Beguiled
Re:	It's all about Bush-Cheney, of course!!

In response to:
Imagine all the people

Message:
If Hillary Rodham Clinton had been elected president in 2000, and all else being exactly equal, you would have heard very little, if anything, about the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners. If the incidents were reported at all, we would be regaled with details on the actual perpetrators of the abuse, especially if those persons or any among them could be shown to have come from a CHRISTIAN .

Name:	Max Candor
To:	All
Re:	The whole slavering pack of 'em!

In response to:
We still face a world of threats, but we're much less confident about our own power. We still know we can roll over hostile armies, but we cannot roll over problems. We get dragged down into them. We can topple tyrants, but we don't seem to be very good at administering nations. Our intelligence agencies have made horrible mistakes. Our diplomacy vis-à-vis Western Europe has been inept. We have a military filled with heroes, but the atrocities of a few have eclipsed the nobility of the many.

Name:	Horus
Re:	We WILL control ALL bladders! We WILL put EVERYONE under surveilance!!

In response to:
Correction

Name:	the future
To:	American

In response to:
Matamoros is a hate-driven racist, anti-Muslim bigot of the worst sort who calls for the mass murder of millions in most every one of his messages.

Message:
Matamoros is a hate-driven racist who sees the future. He makes good points but unthinkable solutions.

Name:	POW MIAs Korean Conflict
To:	"Right Honorable" Sen.John F Kerry
Re:	Ignored Korean POW MIAs

In response to:
Sen Kerry, you spent one (1) day concerned about dozens of pilots shot down over Korea, thanks a lot, ya putz!

Message:
Each of these allies—the Senate Select Committee on POWs and MIAs and the U.S.-Russia Joint Commission—would end up disappointing the Korean War and Cold War MIA community in its own way. The Senate committee, whose co-chairs were Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts and Sen. Robert Smith of New Hampshire, lasted for one year and drew significant media attention. But, predictably, it spent the vast majority of staff time and investigative effort on Indochina. The life of the committee was marked by private and public quarrels over the value of certain evidence and the integrity of some of the witnesses. But in every case, the context of the news and controversy was the Vietnam War. In the public hearings phase, only one day was devoted to Korean War and Cold War issues and cases. The Joint Commission, meanwhile, had begun what can now be seen as an extremely ambitious attempt to investigate the thousands of intelligence tips and live-sightings of Americans held in the former Soviet Union from the end of World War II to the present day. Thanks to some Russian cooperation—or, to put it another way, despite frequent Russian non-cooperation—the American side of the commission has been able to visit some archives and museums and interview a number of Russian citizens who have come forward as a result of printed and broadcast appeals for information. (Joint Commission staffers operate on the understanding that Russian officials will be notified of and invited to sit in on all interviews of Russians volunteering information to the American side.) Now in its fifth year, the Joint Commission remains in operation, although the flow of tips and leads has slowed drastically and the frequently stated promise of access to KGB files on foreign POWs remains unfulfilled. While conducting ground-breaking work that frequently kept the POW/MIA community’s hopes on razor’s edge, the Joint Commission also became caught in post-Cold War gridlock, as the archival “window of opportunity” closed and the Russian side’s hardliners parried with a dwindling and sometimes fractious team of Americans on the other side. A report released in the summer of 1993 by the Task Force Russia—a team of U.S. experts on Soviet affairs and military intelligence put together by the U.S. Army—concluded that up to 1,000 or more American POWs from the Korean War had been shipped to the former Soviet Union for interrogation. But the report’s findings were minimized by Pentagon officials who charged they were more supposition than fact. The team of experts who had constructed the case made by the report—Task Force Russia—was effectively disbanded after one year, and its duties subsumed under the Pentagon’s Office of POW/MIA Affairs. The current U.S. position on this issue is that the strongest available evidence points to the transfer to Soviet territory of a relatively small number of Korean War American POWs—perhaps corresponding to the roughly 25-30 fighter pilot MIAs who are believed to have been among the most prized captives for intelligence purposes.

Name:	Appomattox Courthouse
To:	The Sick Extremist Contingent of the Democratic Party
Re:	Lying yourselves into oblivion

In response to:
We will lie about the lies Republicans tell. We will lie about our reasons for going to war.

Message:
You might as well, you sick little pustule. You lie about nearly everything else. FYI, most people of ordinary intelligence do not believe your transparent, self-serving lies.

Name:

Why do Democrats lie so much?

In response to:
Republicans admit lying will be their most important tactic

Democrat lie! No lies were told about WMD (if they were lies, Bill Clinton was the first to tell them)

We will lie to ourselves about how honest we are and what liars the liberals are.

Democrat lie!!! There were no lies in the story about Niger and yellowcake.

Democrat lie!! No lies have been told about Kerry other than those that come out of Kerry's mouth.

We will lie to ourselves that what we are doing is God's will and the Democrats are not.

We will lie to ourselves that God has blessed Repulicans with moral authority but liberals are scum.

Name:	Wally Webelow
To:	The Insanity
Re:	HATE as policy

In response to:
Matamoros is a hate-driven racist who sees the future. He makes good points but unthinkable solutions

Message:
He is just another tinhorn Hitler. You are a dangerous fool if you believe his apocalyptic bullshit.

Name:	ET
To:	We WILL control ALL bladders! We WILL put EVERYONE under surveilance!!

In response to:
If Hillary Rodham Clinton had been elected president in 2000, and all else being exactly equal, you would have heard very little, if anything, about the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners. If the incidents were reported at all, we would be regaled with details on the actual perpetrators of the abuse, especially if those persons or any among them could be shown to have come from a CHRISTIAN B&A&C&K&G&R&O&U&N&D.

Message:
You flatter Hillary beyond any human on this earth. Hillary is no more in control of the release of information than Bush. Almost everyone has a digital camera. Anyone can take those pictures and send them all over the world. Information, and dis-information can no longer be stopped or controlled.

Name:	Nelson Riddle
To:	Floundering Pissant Covered With Your Own Excrement
Re:	Why bother?

In response to:
We will lie about the what the Clinton's do, and what they do not do.

Message:
How absurd! There is a Clinton Cultist subset of DEMOCRATS and some to their Left who have made a career of doing just that!

Name:	Wallis Tractor Sales
To:	ET
Re:	The Few, The Loud, The Leftist: The American and European Media Elites

In response to:
You flatter Hillary beyond any human on this earth. Hillary is no more in control of the release of information than Bush

Message:
I never said she was. But her sycophants in the media damned sure ARE!!

Name:	UN fan on ceiling
To:	Smedley
Re:	Let's let the UN "whither on the vine" of corruption.

In response to:
This really is an unfair statement as a lot of those bribes went to the French and Russians. I wonder what the cost is these days for a UN Security Council veto!?!?

Message:
Untold bribes up to $10 billion, some of which went to Kofi's son, as a UN official signing papers. You're right, I was unfair. The Germans and Belgians (and French, Russians) most likly got bribes. Anybody's guess as to how much would be charged by UN Security Council for a veto. Depends on degree of being jaded and greed, two variable factors. In any case, the US should opt out of funding our 22% and let them get the money from those who got bribes since NOBODY will be prosecuted. The UN is basically a den of thieves anyway except for those who have no power who have to try to obtain favor from those who do have the power. There are over 200 countries in the world including micro nations like Pitcarn Island. Many can hardly afford to send deligates but most can Email now so they don't need charity.

Name:	No Trees
To:	ET
Re:	Media Drumbeat: Smash Bush!

In response to:
Information, and dis-information can no longer be stopped or controlled.

Message:
It can still be manipulated, even more so than before. And it is being manipulated, you may be sure of that!

Name:	ET
To:	David Brooks

In response to:
David Brooks is a typical little Leftwing PISSANT media head.

Message:
David Brooks is a senior editor at The Weekly Standard, a neo-con, conservative publication.

I thought the Republicans on this forum would be relieve that I put a staunch Republican from none other than the Weekly Standard on the masthead today. I could have put some photos of the Iraqi prison abuse with screaming headlines"

But I wanted to move beyond the prison abuse and on to how we are going to recover from this blow to our moral authority in the world. I'm a move-on type person.

Name:	OxWeld America
To:	ET
Re:	Button Pushers

In response to:
Almost everyone has a digital camera. Anyone can take those pictures and send them all over the world. Information, and dis-information can no longer be stopped or controlled.

Message:
Most people on earth have no idea what a digital camera is. Even if most people on earth did have one, they would have no facilities with which to transmit data from it anywhere.

The content on mainline news sources around the world remains under the control of a fairly small group of news professionals who are overwhelmingly LEFTIST in orientation and very politically active. What these people choose to emphasize or downplay or ignore altogether has a huge impact on mass opinion and awareness of current events.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. (Reuters) - Former First Lady Nancy Reagan made an impassioned call for taking controversial stem cell research out of the political arena, saying it could help cure illnesses like Alzheimer's which so sorely afflicts her husband. With the Bush administration and anti-abortion groups strongly opposing stem cell research, Mrs. Reagan at a celebrity-packed dinner in Beverly Hills on Saturday night lent a powerful conservative Republican voice to the debate.

I wonder how many conservatives know that all First Ladies in the fairly recent past (about 30 years) are pro-choice: Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush's Father, Clinton, and Dubya. I wonder how many people in the country know this.

Name:	Beware the joker Iraqi pictures
To:	Relative Morality

In response to:
You have to admit that Christians get bad rap from the American media. Most of CBS, NBS, ABS CNN and others has been to omit Arab atrocities including mention that 14 of the 17 skyjackers of 911 were Saudi Arabians here because of a privileged character admission policy favoring Saudis.

Message:
Who did this? Ask INS and the US State Dept. A Saudi prince assassinated King Fasal so it's not like these rich Arabs don't have bad apples in the barrel. Unfortunately, they do not behead the bad apples and lose the bodies in the wastelands for the desert creatures to devour. Many of them get tribute for not destroying Saudi property and lives despite an expensive PR program about Saudi Arabia catching and punishing "MORE terrorists" than whomever. Obviously whoever isn't catching and punishing anyone at all so outdoing fellow Muslims is childs play. Just catch a bufoon occasionally and NOBODY is offended.

Name:	Wising up now
To:	Beware Joker pictures
Re:	Did you make some pictures with items to look for?

In response to:
Many of them get tribute for not destroying Saudi property and lives despite an expensive PR program about Saudi Arabia catching and punishing "MORE terrorists" than whomever. Obviously whoever isn't catching and punishing anyone at all so outdoing fellow Muslims is childs play. Just catch a bufoon occasionally and NOBODY is offended. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
Oh I get it. Pump up the price of oil and use the extra money to bullsh!t Americans with public relations time bought on TV and radio and in the very liberal papers that print contrived news like "G_d says world to end tomorrow, women and minorities to suffer most!"

Pretty crafty those inscrutable Arabs. Since we need our minds made right, WE must pay record prices for gasoline to pay for this.

Name:	3,000 Mom March
To:	Individual
Re:	Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Message:
I didn't see you out there in the crowd yesterday, missy..............

Name:	Wax Myrtle
To:	ET
Re:	e survived the Iraqi National Museum Horror!

In response to:
But I wanted to move beyond the prison abuse and on to how we are going to recover from this blow to our moral authority in the world. I'm a move-on type person

Message:
Punish the perpetrators. Right NOW. If the actual perpetrators acted under orders from their superior officers, the officers who formulated and issued the orders must be punished. Such a situation would be a mitigating circumstance for the perpetrators, though it would not excuse them, and it would be an aggravating circumstance for any officers issuing such orders.

We are not a wounded giant, stumbling witlessly in a shellshocked daze, whatever Brooksie & company would have you believe. That is a bunch of Leftist media CRAP.

A few of our people have indulged in gross misbehavior, and, it's being said, possibly the murder of unarmed prisoners. That must be dealt with, and it is being dealt with. Don't let the hysterical media drumbeat distort your perspective.

Name:	Smedley
To:	UN fan on ceiling

In response to:
Untold bribes up to $10 billion, some of which went to Kofi's son, as a UN official signing papers. You're right, I was unfair.

... In any case, the US should opt out of funding our 22% and let them get the money from those who got bribes since NOBODY will be prosecuted.

The UN is basically a den of thieves anyway except for those who have no power who have to try to obtain favor from those who do have the power.

Now now, not everyone in the UN is a thief. Sudan, for example, doesn't have a history of thievery, unless you count SLAVERY as a form of thievery.

I wonder if Sudan uses slave labor for some of their work on the UN Commission for Human Rights????

There are over 200 countries in the world including micro nations like Pitcairn Island. Many can hardly afford to send deligates but most can Email now so they don't need charity.

Name:	Woodsy Owl
To:	Sausalito
Re:	Smash the Automobilists! Save the Arctic Bot-fly !!

In response to:
Pretty crafty those inscrutable Arabs. Since we need our minds made right, WE must pay record prices for gasoline to pay for this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
Sensible fuel pricing promotes conservation and cleaner air. Rising fuel prices promote sensible vehicle choices by consumers. Market pricing of motor fuels promotes public transportation ridership, and we know how sacred that is!

Name:	Cedarwood
To:	?????
Re:	uieynwpehfcioqhcn oir

In response to:
Obviously whoever isn't catching and punishing anyone at all so outdoing fellow Muslims is childs play. Just catch a bufoon occasionally and NOBODY is offended.

Message:
How do you know they aren't telling the truth? Where do you get your information? Do you make it up yourself?

Name:	Lew Record
To:	Invidious
Re:	Everyone has an opinion. Some are grieviously wrong, and some aren't.

In response to:
I wonder how many conservatives know that all First Ladies in the fairly recent past (about 30 years) are pro-choice: Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush's Father, Clinton, and Dubya. I wonder how many people in the country know this.

Name:	Smedley
To:	spIndividual

Message:
Pro-choice? I didn't realize that stem-cell research and abortion were the exact same thing.

Name:	Socony Vacuum
To:	Smedley
Re:	Screeching Lunatic Fringe

In response to:
A whole 3,000 people!!! I've gone to parties with more attendees.

Name:	Jane's cathouse Network
To:	forum
Re:	locally at 727-450=1267 and 804-747-6434

In response to:
or nationwide at 1-800-316-5569; 1800-774-1338

Name:	Minions of Adversarial Midia
To:	SpIndividual

In response to:
wonder how many conservatives know that all First Ladies in the fairly recent past (about 30 years) are pro-choice: Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush's Father, Clinton, and Dubya. I wonder how many people in the country know this.

Message:
This really woundn't matter unless she was RUNNING THEHITE HOUSE, firing people out of the Travel Office and staffing anybody and everybody with a roach clip and the promise to share a lucretive salary.

Name:

Conservative

In response to:
We will lie to ourselves that we are superior.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Clinton = Average of $37.20 billion per year over 8 years;

Message:
You failed to report the rest of the story--as usual. The Average of $37.20 billion in deficit spending was the amount needed to get 1% of GDP growth. Clinton was the lowest deficit spender, by far. The lowest republican was Reagan. Under Reagan, it took an average of about 88 billion in deficit spending to get 1% growth in GDP. The Bush's are off of the chart--many hundreds of billions to get 1% GDP growth.

Name:	UN fan on ceiling
To:	Smedley
Re:	Then the Pitcarne guy did set up his own commonwealth

In response to:
Now now, not everyone in the UN is a thief. Sudan, for example, doesn't have a history of thievery, unless you count SLAVERY as a form of thievery. I wonder if Sudan uses slave labor for some of their work on the UN Commission for Human Rights????

Message:
There are 4 slave countries, and people who can't get home from Arab countries and must work for a pittance. If their VISA got pulled because of some disagreement with their employer/ benefactor, they are stuck for the duration and virtual slaves. Also they are subject to local slants on laws such as," your parked car got hit by an inebriated Arab, so since YOU should not have been in the country, it is YOUR fault!"

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Pro-choice? I didn't realize that stem-cell research and abortion were the exact same thing.

Name:	The American People
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
You failed to report the rest of the story--as usual. The Average of $37.20 billion in deficit spending was the amount needed to get 1% of GDP growth. Clinton was the lowest deficit spender, by far. The lowest republican was Reagan. Under Reagan, it took an average of about 88 billion in deficit spending to get 1% growth in GDP. The Bush's are off of the chart--many hundreds of billions to get 1% GDP growth.

(don't bother pulling more tidbits out of your anus, if you want to prove me wrong bring forth the supporting evidence)

Name:	Bystander
To:	Individual

Use this rule of thumb: if you can't provide supporting evidence, what you are saying is most likely complete crap.

Name:	Former White House staffer
To:	Minions of Adversarial Media

In response to:
This really woundn't matter unless she was RUNNING THE WHITE HOUSE, firing people out of the Travel Office and staffing anybody and everybody with a roach clip and the promise to share a lucretive salary.

Message:
So that's what that payroll deduction was. MISC often was 20% of my salary which went up automatically every so often so I didn't mind all that much. I had preveiously been a pizza delivery guy and a bicycle messenger for law firms, then I got included in late 1993 for the OEOB. When it came time to leave my solitaire playing and internet surfing, I was of course, angry. I glued my W on the overhead, cached some colorful pictures in the printer paper and got a small measure of revenge. We all got away with it so what the hay. I saved some money from my windfall and have some independence. Beats pizza delivery and who knows, I might get invited back in 2005!

Name:	Forum Fan
To:	Individual

In response to:
The Bush's are off of the chart--many hundreds of billions to get 1% GDP growth.

Name:	Editor
To:	Wax Myrtle

In response to:
We are not a wounded giant, stumbling witlessly in a shellshocked daze, whatever Brooksie & company would have you believe. That is a bunch of Leftist media CRAP.

Message:
New Page 1 Brooksie is NOT a leftist. David Brooks is a senior editor at The Weekly Standard, a neo-con, conservative publication.

You make me sad when you blame the prison atrocities on the "liberal media." As long as Republicans are trying to blame somebody is as long as America's moral authority continues to sink. Besides, where were you when this so-called "liberal media" persecuted the Clintons every day 24/7 for 8 years?

Blaming anyone or any institution/s not directly involved in the the prisoner abuses, or those who directly or indirectly ordered or allowed these abuses to continue, by default, are the ones to blame and prosecute.

There is only one way to recover our moral authority and that is to be MORAL. We must demonstrate to the Muslims, and the world, what morality is. Morality is not perfection. Nobody in this world is perfect. No nation is perfect. But morality does not demand perfection, only the striving toward perfection.

WHAT DOES A MORAL PERSON, OR A MORAL NATION DO WHEN IT FINDS THAT IT HAS COMMITTED AN IMMORAL ACT?

What do you believe a nation that strives to have "moral authority" should do when confronted by the immoral acts of those under its command?

We can demonstrate to the world a new "shock and awe" in morality, or we can try to blame others. We have the greatest opportunity to raise ourselves to the highest level by bending over backwards to demonstrate that we are not perfect human beings, but striving for a more perfect society free of immoral acts is always our top priority.

Name:

Civil Bagdasarian

Message:

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	Print a text version of this article
	Despite privacy fears, library board approves microchips to track books

	Submitted By:Jack
	Click for Source Article
	The San Francisco Library Commission -- despite concerns over privacy and civil liberties -- approved a plan Thursday to use microchips to keep track of books and other library material. Library officials will seek about $300,000 in the city's 2004-05 budget to begin the program, which could take at least six years to fully implement and ultimately cost millions of dollars. Critics of the proposal argue that the microchips, called radio-frequency identification devices, or RFID, could be used by the government to track San Francisco residents, their reading habits and their personal information. Opponents also argue that the library already has an adequate system, using magnetic strips, to prevent theft. "This is a potentially privacy shredding issue,'' said Peter Warfield, the founder of a library users group. "Stick to the bar code.'' David Molnar, a Ph.D. candidate in electrical engineering at UC Berkeley, has been studying RFID technology and told the commission Thursday that a secure way to use the devices had yet to be developed. "Anyone can read these tags,'' he said. "There is no way to stop it.'' The American Civil Liberties Union has also opposed the plan, saying the library does not need to install the technology now. But San Francisco librarian Susan Hildreth has said the technology will make it easier for library staff to check books out to library patrons. She said the chips would also cut the cost of repetitive stress injuries, which have totaled $265,000 at the library in the past three years. And officials said a number of libraries across the country were embracing the new technology. Commission President Charles Higueras noted that the commission was "not in full and complete possession of all the facts" when it comes to RFID. "We need to proceed cautiously,'' he told the audience. "This vote tonight is not a headlong rush into a blind acceptance of this RFID technology. " The commission pledged to work with the ACLU and other groups to ease concerns about how the chips might be used. "We are still concerned about the privacy issue,'' said Commissioner Helen Marte Bautista.

Name:	Editor
To:	Republicans
Re:	PRISONER ABUSE

Message:
If Bush does not have the courage to conduct a moral investigation into the prison abuses, you should seriously consider drafting McCain for president. He is clearly demonstrating moral authority.

Name:	SUV wheeler
To:	Woodsy oil

In response to:
Sensible fuel pricing promotes conservation and cleaner air. Rising fuel prices promote sensible vehicle choices by consumers. Market pricing of motor fuels promotes public transportation ridership, and we know how sacred that is!

Message:
Subways and busses are one thing. Surface trains zipping alongside and thru city traffic can be deadly. How many people have been maimed /killed by your ill-planned and poorly-conceived toy train system. Many times ,the EVIL railroad had to give up right of way for surface passenger trains requiring special guage tracks. Do you know how long it took the US of A to standardize rail guage and width? About 100 years! The all these metro rail plans do away with existing track in order to spend upwards of $1 million per mile of redone special track. If the systems are discontinued again, as they were in the 1920s and 1930s, the EVIL railroad will have to replace the off-sized special tracks with standard guage.

All this effort and expense when a TRACKMOBILE costing $60,000 cound have pulled passenger cars on existing track ALL OVER CREATION and not just a few miles.

Name:	Wax Myrtle
To:	ET
Re:	So he's a crackpot, neocon, eh? Yet you find him credible NOW...

In response to:
Brooksie is NOT a leftist. David Brooks is a senior editor at The Weekly Standard, a neo-con, conservative publication.

Message:
I don't care if he's John Birch's ghost. I'm tired of the pissant psychoanalysis of this nation by the likes of Brooks. I disagree with him. It think he is full of crap for the most part. He is correct that "...the atrocities of a few have eclipsed the nobility of the many..." but those "few", and they are indeed few, have had a lot of help in generating the enormous smoke cloud that has accomplished the eclipsing, and Brooks, himself another media guru, goes right on to pour yet more fuel on that smokey fire. He seems to understand that the U.N. is a disaster, then he proceeds to call for the creation of another U.N.. May God forbid!

Name:	The American People
To:	ET

In response to:
You make me sad when you blame the prison atrocities on the "liberal media."

Message:
The Liberal Media is milking the prison issue for political gain. All the good Democrats had their identical talking points to parrot on the Sunday talk shows and this story is going to be getting headline treatment for a very very long time. The Liberal Media thinks it is hurting Bush when in fact they are hurting this country badly.

Other proof of the out of control Left Wing Media. Last week 70+ Vietnam Vet's that served with John Kerry including every single superiour office that Kerry ever had signed a letter saying Kerry was not fit to be president. What did the American people see...NOTHING!!!! A complete Left Wing media blackout.

Nobody blames the prison problem on the Left Wing media but the Left Wing media is responsible for using this issue for political gain.

It is a sad day to be an American, the Left Wing Media seems willing to distroy this country in their hopes to elect a democrat.

Name:	Woodsy Owl
To:	Probably some nut from GM
Re:	Mass Transit is Sacred!

In response to:
killed by your ill-planned and poorly-conceived toy train system. Many times ,the EVIL railroad had to give up right of way for surface

Message:
They should be as proud to die beneath the wheels of BART as they are to subsidize it!

Name:	PWT
To:	individual

In response to:
Clinton = Average of $37.20 billion per year over 8 years;

Message:
We all know that Mr. Clinton cut taxes on the rich to get economic growth, just admit it.

Name:	Webelow
To:	ET
Re:	The politically exploitative media REACTION is what is at issue.

In response to:
The Liberal Media is milking the prison issue for political gain.

Name:

The American People

In response to:
If Bush does not have the courage to conduct a moral investigation into the prison abuses, you should seriously consider drafting McCain for president. He is clearly demonstrating moral authority.

Message:
The issue has been under investigation since January, the Left Wing Media did not report this fact.

The people involved had already been transferred states-side BEFORE the Left Wing Media start "Operation Destroy America"

The Left Wing media did not uncover this story. The Left Wing Media is simply using it for political gain. A reporter did not uncover the situation, the pentagon GAVE THEM THE INFORMATION.

The Left Wing Media has turned this into a Hate America Circus for misguided effort to support the failing efforts of John Kerry.

Name:	Wax Myrtle
To:	ET
Re:	Shot through with corruption and incompetence

In response to:
You make me sad when you blame the prison atrocities on the "liberal media." As long as Republicans are trying to blame somebody is as long as America's moral authority continues to sink. Besides, where were you when this so-called "liberal media" persecuted the Clintons every day 24/7 for 8 years?

Message:
I was watching the Liberal media go to bat for the Clintons and the rogues surrounding them while attacking everyone who made any effort to hold the Clintons and their little mafia to account. Where the hell were you? Trying to raise money for the "Clinton Defense Fund"?

Name:	Wax Myrtle
Re:	Strategic Reserve??

In response to:
The issue has been under investigation since January, the Left Wing Media did not report this fact

Message:
They had probably intended to save it for October. When Kerry-Kohn began to implode, they rushed it out early. Now they will have to keep it front page for nearly six months, unless they can come up with something juicier, like maybe a Jenna sighting.

Message:
Of course, you could always go to the sources and make your own calculations. I'll tell you how. First, you get the FY deficit for each year of the president's tenure. Then you get the GDP growth for the same year. Once you have these two pieces of data, you average over the president's tenure.

Name:	Wax Myrtle
To:	ET
Re:	We must examine their potty training!

Message:
I find talk of a "moral investigation" by the Left amusing. Forget Bush, and get someone with Leftist-compatible MORAL AUTHORITY, like LARRY FLYNT, to conduct your moral witch-hunt.

As for McCain, the Democrat in Republican clothing, PUHLEEEZE! I figure that when Hillary rides Bill Clinton into the despondent and gloomy Democratic convention to take over and save the party that she will have McCain trotting right behind her, tied to her red leather saddle with a rope plaited of official POWER. Should he dare to get out of line as her veep, her $pur$ will...CORRECT him!

Name:	Farolito Huerta-Cabrizza
To:	Individual
Re:	Idle Pastimes

In response to:
Of course, you could always go to the sources and make your own calculations. I'll tell you how. First, you get the FY deficit for each year of the president's tenure. Then you get the GDP growth for the same year. Once you have these two pieces of data, you average over the president's tenure.

Message:
You had just as well get an empty flowerpot and crap into it. Then let the contents dribble out of the little hole in the bottom and onto your shoes. Cool!

Name:	Hot Cross Buns
Re:	Manipulating Public Opinion

In response to:
The Left Wing Media has turned this into a Hate America Circus for misguided effort to support the failing efforts of John Kerry.

Name:	ET
To:	Wax Myrtle
Re:	The hell with moral authority and hearts and minds

Message:
Oh yes, of course, we Republicans don't need to win the hearts and minds of the Middle East by exhibiting moral authority. We can just lob bombs at them and be done with it. Only liberals think in terms of "hearts and minds" and "moral authority" crap. We Republicans got "da bomb" and that's all that matters.

Name:	Wax Myrtle
To:	ET

In response to:
Oh yes, of course, we Republicans don't need to win the hearts and minds of the Middle East by exhibiting moral authority. We can just lob bombs at them and be done with it. Only liberals think in terms of "hearts and minds" and "moral authority" crap. We Republicans got "da bomb" and that's all that matters.

Name:	Wax Myrtle
To:	ET
Re:	Prison Outrages

In response to:
Yadda Yadda

Message:
Do you imagine that what occurred in the prison was legal? It is my understanding that what occurred was ILLEGAL under UCMJ. Why not discover, prosecute, and punish the PERPETRATORS? Or, would you rather see morality legislated?

Name:	Bill Clinton
To:	ET
Re:	Terrorists

In response to:
"We can just lob bombs at them and be done with it."

Name:	Camp Wah Pa Ti
To:	ET
Re:	All Nice and legal, and moral too!

In response to:
The hell with moral authority and hearts and minds. We'll use the tried-and-true "Southern Gentleman" Strategy!

Message:
Here is the solution! Just put a big polished mahogany desk in the prison interrogation room along with a plush blue carpet with a presidential seal in the middle. Then tell the damned prisoners that it's THE OVAL OFFICE! Voila! Everyting's copacetic!

Name:	Republican
To:	Hot Cross Buns
Re:	No Moral Authority Required

In response to:
John F. K. Kerry, who is ONE NASTY MESS OF POTTAGE indeed!!

Message:
Yes, of course, we Republicans always find the easy way out when it concerns morality. We just blame Kerry for exploiting the Iraqi prison abuses. Blame Kerry - What a great idea! We right-wingers are innocent. Blameless.

How dare the nasty liberal press make a big thing of the prison abuses. It was just one or two misguided soldiers. You can't hold all of us responsible for raising the bar on morality. Bush is not responsible for raising the bar to prove how Americans act when confronted with immoral acts of its soldiers. None of our top brass was responsible so we just punish the hell out of the little girl at McDonald's who was stupid enough to volunteer in the National Guard. That'll teach those McDonald's workers to ruin our good moral reputation.

Now lets get back to bashing Hillary. That's my definition of morality. If you want to save America's moral authority we should launch another $70 million investigation to let the world know how immoral Hillary is.

Name:	Patron
To:	Waitpersyn
Re:	Roasted Janitor

In response to:
Freshly roasted janitor anyone?

Message:
Can you get me Cantonese, or do I have to order the Ambassador's Special?

Name:	Smedley
To:	spIndividual

In response to:
You failed to report the rest of the story--as usual. The Average of $37.20 billion in deficit spending was the amount needed to get 1% of GDP growth.

Message:
You really are a pathetic liar. Worst of all you assume we are as f'ing stupid as you. There was never any $37.20 billion deficit average per year. It was $200 Billion per year.

Name:	The American People
To:	SPINdividual

You might as well compare FY deficits per year to the average beast size of porno actresses.

If you can not provide any supporting evidence for your correlation between the budget of the federal government and GDP, you can rest assured it is most likely complete bullsh!t.

I think there is more supporting evidence for the correlation of larger deficits means larger breast in porn movies.

Name:	Smedley
To:	Editor

Message:
Last I heard, an investigation into this matter is ongoing and started before Bush was even aware of the problem

Name:	The American People
To:	Republican (lying left winger)

In response to:
Yes, of course, we Republicans always find the easy way out when it concerns morality. We just blame Kerry for exploiting the Iraqi prison abuses. Blame Kerry - What a great idea! We right-wingers are innocent. Blameless.

Message:
Cut the crap, nobody is blaming Kerry and nobody is blaming the Left Wing media for the prison crimes. We are blaming the Left Wing Media for milking the issue in support of our enemies in a pathetic attempt to support the failing campaign of John Kerry.

Name:	Wax Myrtle
To:	ET
Re:	Let's punish the GUILTY for a change, shall we?

Message:
I blame the PERPETRATORS, be they two or three or a dozen or more, officers or noncoms or contract hirelings.

KERRY and his vociferous gaggle of congressional radical Leftists, along with their Leftist media sycophants and their defenders blame everyone else (but the perpetrators) who is to the Right of Karl Marx.

I blame those guilty of perpetrating these acts and any who may have odered these acts perpetrated. I don't give a chrome-plated damn where they may have once worked, what color they are, whether they stand or squat to pee, or whtehr or not they or any of them commune with Nostradamus, or whether they like puppies or not, or whether they are Democrats or Republicans or Communists or Fanatical Birchers, or DSA deadheads.

Name:	DOOM!
To:	Smedley
Re:	It's OVER. We are finished! Cancel your insurance! Max out your cards!

In response to:
Last I heard, an investigation into this matter is ongoing and started before Bush was even aware of the problem --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
That simply won't do! We must have mass public self-flagellations in every American City! We must put Larry Flynt and Janet Reno and Edward Asner in charge of a far reaching national investigation of every single (non-congressional) American both in and out of the military! We must turn Iraq over to Kofi Annan NOW! And we must put Bush and Cheney and Condoleeza Rice and that horrid old Rumsfeld into deepest GITMO right NOW!!! Let the apologies ring! Let us all have a good cry! Let us despise ourselves! THE ANCIENT AND VENERABLE BRONZE GOAT OF IRAQ IS LOST FORVER! BUSH HAS RUINED EVERYTHING! IT'S ALL HALLIBURTON'S FAULT!

Name:	Doom!(?)
Re:	It's OVER. We are finished! Cancel your insurance! Max out your cards!

In response to:
BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!!

Message:
There is still hope! John F. Kerry alone can turn this thing around! He will be America's long-overdue SAVONAROLA! John F. Kerry will whip this country into an instrospective and self-loathing moral rectitude in short order!

We will burn Limbaugh at the stake! We will boil Glen Beck in his own oil! There will be mass outdoor burnings of THE WASHINGTON TIMES !

Our savior, John F. Kerry, with his own blood spurting copiously from his numerous Vietnam war-wounds (he was in Viet Nam, you know, and then he arose again, alive, but indignant and bleeding profusely, to hurl medals like grenadoes as Mother Fonda's stalwart young Left hand man) will wash away our national sin of flirtation with constitutionally limited government!

Name:

Smedley

In response to:
I blame the PERPETRATORS, be they two or three or a dozen or more, officers or noncoms or contract hirelings.

Message:
FYI, I think any murders and sodomizing of prisoners is unexcusable and should be punished.

Nude stacking of prisoners, prisoners on leases and prisoners forced to wear womens' underwear is humiliation, but hardly torture. It's kind of funny given the Arab sense of machismo and honor. Dole out a few repremands but for God's sake keep it in perspectvie.

Name:

Smedley

In response to:
Nude stacking of prisoners, prisoners on leases and prisoners forced to wear ...

Message:
Nude stacking of prisoners, prisoners on leashes and prisoners forced to wear ...

Name:	Wax Myrtle
To:	Smedley
Re:	Context and circumstance cannot be ignored

In response to:
Nude stacking of prisoners, prisoners on leases and prisoners forced to wear womens' underwear is humiliation, but hardly torture. It's kind of funny given the Arab sense of machismo and honor. Dole out a few repremands but for God's sake keep it in perspectvie. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
There IS the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" aspect of these offenses. I think thatit much aggravates the seriousness of the abuse.

This man has done more to help protect America then John Kerry ever did.Just another DNC Witch hunt.

Name:

Trump

In response to:
We can't have Iraqi prisoners renting apartments can we

Message:
The bathrooms must be oriented correctly or they're apt to use the sink.

Name:	Sul Rost
To:	Chupracabris

In response to:
Capitalism is rotten and evil, communism is inherently good. Tobacco kills because of greed etc

Message:
Consider: E.G. ONE- Most of the Russo-Communists are caucacians that are in charge. They are opposed by Chechnians and other minorities. Do the have representation in the Duma of these various minorities or do they shoot people who oppose them?

E.G. TWO: The Sino-Communists are mostly Chinese that are in charge. They are opposed by Tibetians whom the crushed, and Fen Gong (Sp) exercise and pure mind group which holds peaceful rallies and gets shot, burned, beaten and generally imprisoned. Its leaders are shot publically in stadiums much like a sports event. Do they have Generals who back them up and pass laws to favor them?

EG Three: Various black Communists and individualistic leaders in Africa that are in charge. They are opposed by African -Dutch people who want to keep the land they have owned and farmed for generations. They are shot and kicked off their land. Countries formerly exporting food grown by whites and other minorities in Africa are starving or claim to be for aid. Do they allow whites or other minorities to be represented in their government?

E.G. FOUR: Hispanic Communists and strong men of Mexico, Central America, South America who are in charge. Do they tolerate blacks, whites, and others and give them representation in their government or goon squad? Or do they shoot, beat, imprison and mistreat minorities in the opposition? If Communists and Communism is so wonderful and Capitalism is so rotten, why don't they give smaller groups of opposition say so in their government?

Name:	John
To:	forum

Message:
President Bush increased his lead over Sen. John Kerry in a CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll released April 19. Bush led Kerry 51 percent to 46 percent in the survey of likely voters compared with a three point lead in a similar poll taken April 5-8.

The survey, carried out between April 16-18, interviewed 1,003 adults, including a subsample of 767 respondents deemed most likely to vote in November.

Name:	ET
To:	Wax Myrtle

In response to:
I blame those guilty of perpetrating these acts and any who may have odered these acts perpetrated. I don't give a chrome-plated damn where they may have once worked, what color they are, whether they stand or squat to pee, or whtehr or not they or any of them commune with Nostradamus, or whether they like puppies or not, or whether they are Democrats or Republicans or Communists or Fanatical Birchers, or DSA deadheads.

Message:
I'm relieved to know that you support a complete investigation all the way to the top.

Name:	John
To:	forum

In response to:
President Bush holds significant advantages over John F. Kerry in public perceptions of who is better equipped to deal with Iraq and the war on terrorism, and he has reduced the advantages his Democratic challenger held last month on many domestic issues, according to a Washington Post-ABC News Poll.

Hillary_Clinton_Forum_1154

Crisis of Confidence