Saudi Government will be holding its first ever elections before the end of the year. 
by Amir Taheri
New York Post
July 17, 2004

July 17, 2004 -- ACCORDING to plans announced by the Saudi government this week, the kingdom will be holding its first ever elections before the end of the year.

It is not yet clear whether or not women will be allowed to vote, let alone run, in these elections — which are limited to municipal councils in the urban areas only.

Nevertheless, the fact that Saudi Arabia has allowed the very word "election" to enter its political vocabulary must be regarded as something of a revolution. Until just a couple of years ago, the Saudi ruling elite had no qualms about rejecting elections in any form as "totally un-Islamic."

But much has changed since the United States, the principal sponsor of the status quo in the Middle East, decided to throw its weight behind democratic change in the only part of the world still largely unaffected by the wave of democracy unleashed after the fall of the Soviet empire.

If all goes well, at least a dozen other countries, notably Afghanistan and Iraq, may also hold elections this year. The 70-plus nations holding elections in 2004 account for almost two-thirds of humanity. A generation ago, holding elections was something of an oddity that concerned less than a sixth of mankind.

Holding elections was not always the mainstream method of testing the will of a people or bringing about political reform. Until the '70s, most supporters of change dreamed of a classical revolution. In many Third World countries, the main, if not the only, method of changing policies and governments was through military coup d'etat.

At present fewer than a dozen countries, among them Libya and North Korea, still reject elections even under strict state control.

 

But is holding elections something more than a political ritual in most countries? Yes and no.

In some countries, elections are "managed" in such a way as to confirm the ruling establishment in its position of power and privilege. But even this could be regarded as a compliment that vice pays to virtue.

"Almost any election is better than no election at all," says T.S. Krishna Murthi, India's chief election commissioner, who has just supervised the biggest election in history. "Governments that arrange the elections to suit their interests emerge weaker, in the medium and long run, from such exercises. Somehow, people always know whether or not a government cheats at an election."

I asked Murthi whether the latest Indian election, the largest in history in terms of the numbers of voters, was up to standard.

Murthi divides the world into four categories when it comes to elections. The first consists of a handful of countries, notably Australia, New Zealand and Denmark that hold "the best and the cleanest" elections in the world. Then there are two dozen or so "well-established democracies," including some members of the European Union, the United States and Canada, whose elections are "clean and fair, though not perfect."

Murthi puts India in this category. The third group consists of nations whose elections, though controversial at times, must be regarded as "of acceptable standard." Many new democracies of Eastern Europe, Latin America and Africa fall into this category.

Finally, there are countries where elections are "arranged" to produce the results desired by the ruling establishment.

One could, perhaps, add a fifth category: Countries where elections are held as a means of sorting out differences within the ruling establishment. In Iran, for example, those outside the ruling establishment are not allowed to stand for election. Nevertheless, Iranian elections are important because they allow the ruling establishment to sort out its own divisions without recourse to violence.

But Murthi notes a steady movement toward better elections everywhere. More and more countries are holding elections that are more than a mere political ritual. In more than half of the 74 countries where elections have been held this year, the incumbents have been booted out of office or returned to power with reduced majorities.

In some cases, the electorates have produced results that no one expected. Spain's voters threw out a successful right-wing government because they thought it had lied to them on the issue of terrorism. In India, another successful government was kicked out because many voters believed it had become arrogant and corrupt.

Murthi also notes that some regimes opposed to elections on deep ideological grounds are beginning to change their position. China, for example, has just shown "some interest" in studying the Indian electoral system and is sending a team to New Delhi to study how the latest general election was organized.

Holding elections, of course, does not necessarily translate into a government of the people. While there is no democracy without elections, there can be elections without democracy.

The key question in all this is whether or not holding elections can be a means of avoiding violence, political conflict and civil war. Murthi's answer: "a cautious yes."

To manage crises in 66 countries, the international community now has tens of thousands of troops deployed across the globe and is spending vast sums of money on peacekeeping missions. In almost every case, holding fair elections is the best way of ending the crisis.

But how can we know whether or not any election is fair?

One way is to bring in international observers, as in Algeria, for example, since 1996. Another is to let the United Nations run the whole show, as in post-independent East Timor.

The best way, perhaps, of ensuring the fairness of elections, however, is to have them conducted by an international organization that can stand above partisan politics. Such an organization would supervise elections only by invitation from the host country. Its stamp of approval would give any election an added authority.

An election is useful only if the loser accepts the results. And that can only happen if both winner and loser have confidence in the organization that conducts the elections.

Within the next few months, the United Nations will be called upon to supervise two sensitive elections, one in Afghanistan, the other in Iraq. The success of those elections could boost demands for the creation of an international electoral commission that would be independent even of the U.N. and its notorious power games. E-mail:

amirtaheri@ benadorassociates.com   source

 


Name:   Smedley
To:   spIndividual

In response to:
Well, of course. The British are our "allies."

Message:
Too bad the Democrats, like the French, are "allies" to America only to the point that it suits their petty immediate needs. Otherwise, they'd betray America in a heartbeat for the sheer fun of it.


Name:   Ken Hughes
To:   APPALLED AT KERRY's SLIGHTING OF HILLARY

Message:
You don’t know how much it pains me to say this. I was actually appalled at the treatment dished out to Hillary Clinton by Kerry’s Marauders.

For her not to be a first choice as a speaker, to be relegated to a co-hostess position at Girls night out at the up-coming DNC convention is a disgrace. She is a former First-Lady; She’s an impressive Woman, and impressive Senator, a Presidential hopeful and an Icon in the Democratic Party, [You don’t think I’m buying into all this do you]? I think that tells us something about John Kerry’s loyalty.

uncleken@sbcglobal

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/july168.html


Name:   Smedley
To:   SET

In response to:
I can't forgive the Kerry team and the DNC for trying to snuff Hillary out of the game. It was not only an outrage against Hillary's hard work for the Dems, and the fact that she stumped hard for Kerry ...

Message:
While I have often been critical of the honorable junior Senator, I have been occasionally gracious. I would rather put my trust in HRC that JFK any day. looking back, I can see that the Clintons figured out Gore was insane years ago, and the rest of the world has just come around. I can see where they TRIED to steer a centrist candidate to win the Dem primary, but failed in the face of the Dem lunitic fringe.

Personally, I think Kerry is a mega-loser, and the result of a Dem primary fixated on defeating Bush, rather than electing a qualified candidate. The man is an egotistical fop and without having married money he'd be nowhere.


Name:   Nostradamnus
To:   Yeasting Society

Re:   There is no rational excuse for worshipping snakes in a world filled with goats.
In response to:
Holding elections, of course, does not necessarily translate into a government of the people. While there is no democracy without elections, there can be elections without democracy

Message:
Who needs people in there? People they got already. It's time to put a goat on the throne.


Name:   Reality
To:   ET

Re:   lack of originality...or verasilimitude
Message:
Neither is your line about the Clinton's being the "most persecuted couple in history"


Name:   Da Nuze
Re:   How a serial liar suckered Dems and the media
Message:
BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Well, the week went pretty much as I predicted seven days ago:

BUSH LIED!! Not.

BLAIR LIED!!! Not.

But it turns out JOE WILSON LIED! PEOPLE DIED. Of embarrassment mostly. At least I'm assuming that's why the New York Times, MSNBC's Chris Matthews, PBS drone Bill Moyers and all the other media bigwigs Joseph C. Wilson IV suckered have fallen silent on the subject of the white knight of integrity they've previously given the hold-the-front-page treatment, too.

And what about John F. Kerry? Joe Wilson campaigned with Kerry in at least six states, and claims to have helped with the candidate's speeches. He was said to be a senior foreign policy adviser to the senator. As of Friday, Wilson's Web site, restorehonesty.com, was still wholly paid for by Kerry's presidential campaign.

Heigh-ho. It would be nice to hear his media boosters howling en masse, "Say it ain't so, Joe!" But Joe Wilson's already slipping down the old media memory hole. He served his purpose -- he damaged Bush, he tainted the liberation of Iraq -- and yes, by the time you read this the Kerry campaign may well have pulled the plug on his Web site, and Salon magazine's luxury cruise will probably have to find another headline speaker, and he won't be doing Tim Russert again any time soon. But what matters to the media and to Senator Kerry is that he helped the cause of (to quote his book title) The Politics Of Truth, and if it takes a serial liar to do that, so be it.

But before he gets lowered in his yellowcake overcoat into the Niger River, let's pause to consider: What do Joe Wilson's lies mean? And what does it say about the Democrats and the media that so many high-ranking figures took him at his word?

First, contrary to what Wilson wrote in the New York Times, Saddam Hussein was trying to acquire uranium from Niger. In support of that proposition are a Senate report in Washington, Lord Butler's report in London, MI6, French intelligence, other European agencies -- and, as we now know, the CIA report, based on Joe Wilson's original briefing to them. Against that proposition is Joe Wilson's revised version of events for the Times.

This isn't difficult. In 1999, a senior Iraqi "trade" delegation went to Niger. Uranium accounts for 75 percent of Niger's exports. The rest is goats, cowpeas and onions. So who sends senior trade missions to Niger? Maybe Saddam dispatched his Baathist big shots all the way to the dusty capital of Niamy because he had a sudden yen for goat and onion stew with a side order of black-eyed peas, and Major Wanke, the then-president, had offered him a great three-for-one deal.

But that's not what Joe Wilson found. Major Wanke's prime minister, among others, told Ambassador Wilson that he believed Iraq wanted yellowcake. And Ambassador Wilson told the CIA. And the CIA's report agreed with the British and the Europeans that "Iraq was attempting to procure uranium from Africa."

In his ludicrously vain memoir The Politics Of Truth, Wilson plays up his knowledge of the country. He makes much of his intimacy with Wanke and gives himself the credit for ridding Niger of the Wanke regime. The question then is why a man who knew so much about what was going on chose deliberately to misrepresent it to all his media/ Democrat buddies, not to mention to the American people. For a book called The Politics Of Truth, it's remarkably short of it. On page 2, Wilson says of his trip to Niger: "I had found nothing to substantiate the rumors." But he had.

That's what lying is, by the way: intentional deceit, not unreliable intelligence. And I'm not usually the sort to bandy the liar-liar-pants-on-fire charge beloved by so many in our politics today, but I'll make an exception in the case of Wilson, who's never been shy about the term. He called Bush a "liar" and he called Cheney a "lying sonofa," on stage at a John Kerry rally in Iowa.

Saddam wanted yellowcake for one reason: to strike at his neighbors in the region, and beyond that at Britain, America and his other enemies. In other words, he wanted the uranium in order to kill you.

The obvious explanation for Wilson's deceit about what he found in Africa is that his hatred of Bush outweighed everything else. Or as the novelist and Internet maestro Roger L. Simon put it, "He is a deeply evil human being willing to lie and obfuscate for temporary political gain about a homicidal dictator's search for weapons-grade uranium."

Technically, it's weaponizable uranium, not "weapons grade." But that's the point. Simon isn't the expert, and, as Ambassador Wilson trumpets loudly and often, he is. This isn't a case of another Michael Moore, court buffoon to the Senate Democrats, or Whoopi Goldberg, has-been potty-mouth to John Kerry. They're in show biz; what do they know?

But Wilson does know; he went there, he talked to officials, and he lied about America's national security in order to be the anti-Bush crowd's Playmate of the Month. Either he's profoundly wicked or he's as deranged as that woman on the Paris Metro last week who falsely claimed to have been the victim of an anti-Semitic attack. The Paris crazy was unmasked within a few days, but the Niger crazy was lionized for a full year.

Some of us are on record as dismissing Wilson in the first bloom of his unmerited celebrity. But John Kerry was taken in -- to the point where he signed him up as an adviser and underwrote his Web site. What does that reveal about Mister Nuance and his superb judgment? He claims to be able to rebuild America's relationships with France, and to have excellent buddy-to-buddy relations with French political leaders. Yet anyone who's spent 10 minutes in Europe this last year knows that virtually every government there believes Iraq was trying to get uranium from Africa. Is Kerry so uncurious about America's national security he can't pick up the phone to his Paris pals and get the scoop firsthand? For all his claims to be Monsieur Sophisticate, there's something hicky and parochial in his embrace of an obvious nutcake for passing partisan advantage.

Any Democrats and media types who are in the early stages of yellowcake fever and can still think clearly enough not to want dirty nukes going off in Seattle or Houston -- or even Vancouver or Rotterdam or Amman -- need to consider seriously the wild ride Yellowcake Joe took them on. An ambassador, in Sir Henry Wootton's famous dictum, is a good man sent abroad to lie for his country. This ambassador came home to lie to his. And the Dems and the media helped him do it.


Name:   Da Nuze
Message:
Ironically Joe Wilson's website is titled "restorehonesty.com" and is paid for by John Kerry however several of his links no longer tie in to the Kerry website...slidin' down that memory hole


Name:   Lazlo Vertigo
Re:   The correct tax rate is 100%
In response to:
Kerry is unfit for any purpose. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
Hillary Clinton can take the nomination any time she decides she wants it. But does she want it? She wants to get in at the begining of a rising economic tide during peacetime so that she can push forward her Socialist agenda and have a robust economy to tax funding out of for it.

Each new program must have the built-in addictive qualities of "Social Security". All else must defer to these new entitlements, and all else will! If a tax rate of 100% proves inadequate, we will normalize Canada and Mexico! We will normalize the whole world, if need be! The people of Thibet be damned! Socialism uber alles! Sieg Heil!


Name:   .
In response to:
I can't forgive the Kerry team and the DNC for trying to snuff Hillary out of the game.

Message:
It's only fair...she's been polishing her rifle.


Name:   Smedley
Re:   DU attitude
Message:
I pulled this from DU on the wilson issue : "It doesn't matter if Wilson lied or not, and most honest indications are that he did not, it is still high treason to leak the name of an undercover CIA operative."

First, it isn't treason to leak the name of a CIA operative, although it may in certain circumstances be a crime.

Second, the facts are against Wilson.

Third, I do think it matters whether wilson "lied or not", but issues such as honesty are not DU material.


Name:   Individual
Message:
I am in the process of reading, "Fraud." This is 2004 book by Paul Waldman which is subtitled, The Strategy Behind the Bush Lies and Why the Media Didn't Tell You. I will be quoting from this book to show how much of liar Bush is--in addition to being a bungler.

The first lie is a whopper. In the debates, Gore accused Bush of not supporting a national patient's bill of rights. Bush replied, "Actually, Mr. Vice President, it's not true; I do support a national patient's bill of rights. As a matter of fact, I brought Republicans and Democrats together to do just that in the state of Texas to get a patient's bill of rights through."

The real story: In 1995, the Texas legislature passed a patient's bill of rights WHICH BUSH VETOED. In the next session, the Texas legislature tried again (despite Bush's opposition) and passed another version of the patient's bill of rights, but this time, the legislature had a veto-proof majority. Since the legislature had a veto-proof majority, Bush allowed the bill to become law WITHOUT HIS SIGNATURE.

Bush is one of the biggest liars in politics. Other examples to come. Many, many others.


Name:   Suzanne Fields
Re:   The high cost of malpractice
Message:
CHARLESTON, S.C. - Inside the Beltway, the insider debate is whether a Southern drawl will be enough to charm Southern voters to change their colors from red to blue. Here in the Low Country, where politics is local but rarely low, you hear more talk about health care and how much it costs.

John Edwards portrays himself as a rags-to-riches self-made man, but how he made his money as a trial lawyer, persuading juries to award enormous sums for pain and suffering, infuriates a lot of voters - and not just the doctors and insurance companies. The true costs of these awards - much of which goes to lawyers who have never known pain or suffering - is beginning to seep into the consciousness of those who actually pay the costs, namely, people like you and me.

Surgeons and obstetricians are leaving or curtailing their practices, fleeing the increasingly high cost of malpractice insurance. Premiums for obstetricians around here have more than tripled in four years, to an average of $37,600 - and South Carolina rates are in the low range. A neurosurgeon who practices in the nation's capital says premiums cost as much as $300,000 a year.

A 30-minute "infomercial" sponsored by the Doctors for Medical Liability Reform, a national organization, has been telecast more than 50 times in South Carolina, charging that soaring malpractice insurance rates due to frivolous lawsuits and outrageous financial awards are depleting the ranks of the state's doctors, and discouraging young doctors from entering the crucial specialties.

One physician who practices in a rural South Carolina county says five doctors have left his practice, and the cost of insurance was one of the reasons. Obstetrics residencies at the highest levels, at teaching institutions such as Medical University of South Carolina and Palmetto Health Richland, are going begging.

Julius Leary, a 50-year-old obstetrician/gynecologist, no longer delivers babies; this reduces his malpractice premiums. Neurosurgeons at one medical center no longer accept trauma calls because they fear the whim of punitive juries. One county has reduced its neurosurgery coverage to 10 days a month.

The doctoral counteroffensive is felt in the spirited race between Inez Tenenbaum, a Democratic lawyer, and U.S. Rep. Jim DeMint, a Republican, for the seat of Sen. Ernest Hollings, the retiring Democrat. Mr. DeMint has signed a pledge to vote for capping pain-and-suffering damages in medical malpractice suits at a quarter-million dollars. Ms. Tenenbaum hasn't; she told the State newspaper in Columbia that the pledge was "a silly political gimmick."

But the high cost of malpractice insurance is no gimmick if fewer doctors deliver babies or become neurosurgeons. Dr. Chris Hawk, a prominent Charleston physician, enlivened the debate earlier this year when he proposed that doctors should not treat lawyers who bring suits against doctors. He concedes that the idea may be "repulsive," but he's serious (maybe even dead serious). He argues that such a policy is ethical as long as no one is deprived of emergency care and a doctor gives the patient 30-day notice of termination. He has told one malpractice lawyer among his patients that she should look for another doctor. "It's the only way I know she will not sue me," Hawk argues. Says a neurosurgeon: "It's too bad doctors aren't allowed to strike. That would get everybody's attention."

Both sides in the debate can give as good as they get. If the trial lawyers are better-organized and have more money than doctors, there remains the constituency - and it's a big one - of would-be mothers and others alarmed by the way high malpractice rates influence the availability and cost of health care. The arguments often descend into appeals to raw emotion, much like a good trial lawyer's assault on the sentiments and sensations of jurors.

In one famous summation, John Edwards became a channeler, listening to voices that only he and Shirley MacLaine could hear. "I feel her presence," he told a jury of a little girl who was born brain-damaged, the victim, he said, of a doctor's malfeasance. "She's inside me and she's talking to you. . She says: 'I don't ask for your pity. What I do ask for is your courage and strength.' " (She was remarkably well spoken for a child so young.) On behalf of another child brain-damaged at birth, he produced witnesses who testified that the girl might live for more than 40 years. The jury awarded $23 million. The child died of her injuries when she was six years old.

A neurosurgeon, shaking his head at this excess of commercial compassion, showed me a cartoon depicting the two Johns in campaign mode, captioned, "Vote for me or I'll sue you." Clever, but a growing number of South Carolinians think it's not really funny.


Name:   Guiness Book of Records
Message:
Gerrold Nadler is the BIGGEST liar in politics


Name:   Re: The Biggest Liar in Politics
Re:   Clinton Was Warned of bin Laden Hijacking Plot
Message:
NEW YORK -- In its final report due out this week, the 9-11 Commission will disclose new evidence suggesting that the hard-line Islamist clerics who now exercise near total control over Iran directed their border guards to help jihadists coming from Afghanistan.

And sometime between October 2000 and February 2001, eight to 10 of the "muscle" hijackers of the September 11 plot were among those who benefited, reports Investigative Correspondent Michael Isikoff in the July 26 issue of Newsweek (on newsstands Monday, July 19).

That conclusion -- the strongest evidence yet of a relationship between Iran and Al Qaeda -- is one of the most surprising findings to emerge in the commission's report, which also found there was no "collaborative, operational" relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda and amounts to a blistering critique of the performance of the CIA, the FBI, the Federal Aviation Administration and a host of other agencies, reports Isikoff.

According to a December 2001 memo buried in the files of the National Security Agency, obtained by the commission, Iranian officials instructed their border inspectors not to place Iranian or Afghan stamps in the passports of Saudi terrorists traveling from Osama bin Laden's training camps through Iran. Such "clean" passports undoubtedly would have helped the 9/11 terrorists pass into the United States without raising alarms among U.S. Customs and visa officials, sources familiar with the report tell Newsweek.

The 9-11 Commission report emphasizes there is no evidence suggesting that Iranian officials had advance knowledge of the September 11 plot. Still, the report raises new, sharper questions about whether the Bush administration was focused on the right enemy when it decided to remove Saddam Hussein.

The NSA memo adds to a large accumulation of intelligence indicating that Iran has had more suspicious ties to Al Qaeda than Iraq did. Among those who once had a base in Iran: Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, allegedly the No. 1 terrorist in Iraq today.

Warning Went to Clinton

Among the report's other new disclosures: Bill Clinton also got a strong warning that bin Laden wanted to hijack planes. On Dec. 4, 1998, Clinton was presented with a President's Daily Brief (PDB) with the eye-catching title "Bin Laden Preparing to Hijack U.S. Aircraft and other attacks," Newsweek has learned.

The PDB, which has just been declassified, was prompted by a British intelligence report that the son of the Egyptian "blind sheik" Omar Abdel- Rahman -- who had been convicted of a plot to blow up New York City landmarks -- proposed to hijack airplanes and ransom the passengers in exchange for his father's release.

Curiously, the same information turned up 20 months later, in the Aug. 6, 2001, PDB presented to President Bush, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." One White House official suggested that the existence of the earlier PDB was evidence that President Bush was never properly informed by the outgoing Clintonites about the full depth of the Qaeda threat.

"This was never briefed to us," said the official about the 1998 PDB. Clinton officials dismiss this, saying the timing of the declassification is likely an effort to blunt criticism that Bush bears primary responsibility for failing to avert 9/11.

Clinton officials say they acted aggressively, placing New York City airports on maximum , but no evidence ever turned up establishing that the plot was real.

The 9-11 report is destined to be picked apart by partisans seeking political ammunition against either the Clinton or Bush administrations. The report criticizes both for failing to respond to the bombing of the USS Cole off the coast of Yemen in October 2000, especially in light of multiple intelligence briefings strongly pointing to Qaeda complicity.

To correct pre-9-11 intelligence failures by the CIA, the FBI, the Federal Aviation Administration and other agencies, the report recommends the creation of a national-intelligence director who would serve as an "intelligence czar" with budgetary authority over the entire U.S. intelligence community. But some administration and intel officials are already deriding the plan as bureaucratic box-drawing.

Grimly, what the new 9-11 report makes clear is that nearly three years into the war on terror, America is still not close to understanding the enemy, reports Isikoff. And despite recent portrayals of bin Laden as a man hunted and on the run, U.S. counterterrorism officials now say the threat today from Al Qaeda may be just as serious as in the summer of 2001.

The warnings are based on unusually high-quality intelligence emanating from the Afghanistan- Pakistan border near Waziristan, where top al Qaeda leaders are said to be hiding. "This is absolutely real," says one senior U.S. counterterrorism official. "We feel very confident that they are trying hard to attack us inside the United States before the election and that some of the operatives are already here."


Name:   Michael Barone
Re:   The 'Bush Lied' folks can't be taken seriously
Message:
Official reports issued the last two weeks have conclusively refuted those who have been arguing that "BUSH LIED" about the dangers from Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction programs. The first report was that of the Senate Intelligence Committee. That committee has been rent by partisan divisions over the last year, but the report was unanimous.

One prime conclusion of the report is that American intelligence organizations, like those of every other major country, did indeed believe that Saddam Hussein's regime possessed weapons of mass destruction and had ongoing WMD programs. That intelligence seems to have been mistaken.

But given Saddam Hussein's documented development, possession and use of WMDs, and his refusal to account for their disposal, what intelligence evidence could have convinced a reasonable analyst that he no longer had them?

As the Brookings Institution's Michael O'Hanlon -- a frequent Bush critic -- puts it, "It would have taken an overwhelming body of evidence for any reasonable person in 2002 to think that Saddam did not possess stockpiles of chemical and biological agents."

So Bush was justified in relying on the intelligence. And "the committee did not fund any evidence that administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities."

So much for the wild charges that Bush manipulated intelligence and lied about weapons of mass destruction. He simply said what was believed by every informed person -- including leading members of the Clinton administration before 2001 and Sens. John Kerry and John Edwards in their speeches in October 2002 supporting military action in Iraq.

The Senate Intelligence Committee report also refuted completely the charges by former diplomat Joseph Wilson that the Bush administration ignored his conclusion, based on several days in Niger, that Iraq had not sought to buy uranium in that country. Democrats and many in the press claimed that Wilson refuted the 16-word sentence Bush's 2003 State of the Union speech, noting that British intelligence reported that Iraq sought to buy uranium in Africa.

But British intelligence stands by that finding, and the committee noted that Wilson confirmed that Iraq had approached Niger, whose main exports are uranium and goats, and intelligence analysts concluded that his report added nothing else to their previous knowledge. And the report flatly denied Wilson's statements that his wife, CIA agent Valerie Plame, had nothing to do with his mission to Niger -- it quotes Plame's memo taking credit for the appointment.

The report issued last week in Britain by former civil servant Lord Butler reaches similar conclusions. It finds that Prime Minister Tony Blair did not pressure intelligence organizations to change their findings and that there was no "deliberate distortion" of intelligence or "culpable negligence." It supported the conclusion of British intelligence that Iraq was seeking to buy uranium in Africa.

All this is significant because for the past year most leading Democrats and many in the determinedly anti-Bush media have been harping on the "BUSH LIED" theme. Their aim clearly has been to discredit and defeat Bush. The media continue to fight this battle: contrast the way The New York Times, The Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times front-paged the Wilson charges last year with the way they're downplaying the proof that Wilson lied deep inside the paper this year.

Yale historian John Lewis Gaddis has argued that George W. Bush has transformed American foreign policy, in response to the threat of Islamist terrorism, more than any president since Harry Truman transformed our foreign policy in response to the threat of aggressive communism.

But there is one big difference. In the late 1940s, Truman got bipartisan support from Republicans like Arthur Vandenberg and Thomas Dewey, even at a time when there were bitter differences between the parties on domestic policy, and received generally sympathetic treatment in the press. This time, George W. Bush has encountered determined opposition from most Democrats and the old-line media. They have charged that "BUSH LIED" even when he relied on the same intelligence as they did; they have headlined wild and spurious charges by the likes of Joseph Wilson; they have embraced the wild-eyed propaganda of the likes of Michael Moore.

They have done these things with, at best, reckless disregard of the effect their arguments have had on American strength in the world. Are they entitled to be taken seriously?

Michael Barone is a senior writer for U.S.News & World Report and principal coauthor of The Almanac of American Politics.


Name:   magpie
Message:
The first lie is a whopper. In the debates, Gore accused Bush of not supporting a national patient's bill of rights. Bush replied, "Actually, Mr. Vice President, it's not true; I do support a national patient's bill of rights. As a matter of fact, I brought Republicans and Democrats together to do just that in the state of Texas to get a patient's bill of rights through."

The real story: In 1995, the Texas legislature passed a patient's bill of rights WHICH BUSH VETOED. In the next session, the Texas legislature tried again (despite Bush's opposition) and passed another version of the patient's bill of rights, but this time, the legislature had a veto-proof majority. Since the legislature had a veto-proof majority, Bush allowed the bill to become law WITHOUT HIS SIGNATURE.

wow! that's earth shaking individual! that fixed it for me. i'm voting for kerry because of this and the fact that he snuffed hillary.


Name:   John Kedwards
Re:   Pardon Me Senator, Your Pants Are on Fire
Message:
KERRY ECONOMIC AGITPROP 101 [07/19 01:16 PM]

Almost every Kerry press release includes some version of the following economic arguments. No matter how many times the Kerry Spot, the Bush campaign, or the media refutes the untrue claims, Kerry and his team just repeat them over, and over, and over again.

"Under George Bush, America has lost 1.8 million private-sector jobs."

Kerry ignores the fact that from 2000 to 2003, the economy experienced the dot-com, high-tech, and stock-market bubbles bursting; the terrorist attacks of September 11 and subsequent war on terror including the war in Iraq; and the discovery of corporate accounting scandals, years in the making, that undermined confidence in corporate America.

He also ignores the fact that the number of new people signing up for jobless benefits dropped last week to the lowest level in more than three years.

The Bush campaign cheerfully points out that since last August, more than 1.4 million new jobs have been created. The unemployment rate has fallen from 6.3 to 5.6 percent, below the average of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. Job growth is widespread — employment over the last year was up in 44 of the 50 states, and the unemployment rate was down in 46 of the 50 states.

The Financial Times reported on July 12, "At the Harvard Business School between 91 per cent and 92 per cent of the graduating class had offers on graduation, and 83 per cent of them had accepted a job. At Massachusetts Institute of Technology more than 90 per cent of students had offers on graduation, up from 82 per cent last year. At MIT, campus recruiting by companies was up by 15 per cent and job postings — where companies advertise specific jobs on the school website — were between 30 per cent and 40 per cent higher than last year."

"New jobs that are being created are primarily in low-wage industries."

Balderdash. A new set of numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics actually shows solid growth in employment in relatively higher-paying occupations including construction workers, health-care professionals, business managers, and teachers, and virtually no growth at all in relatively lower-paying occupations including office clerks and assembly-line workers. Real after-tax incomes are up by 11 percent since December 2000. The Bush campaign attributes the increase to the tax cuts and states that the growth by this measure is substantially better than following the last recession.

"At the same time families are making less, the costs of college tuition, health care and college have all soared."

Tuition: Wrong. From USA Today, 06/28: "What students pay on average for tuition at public universities has fallen by nearly one-third since 1998, thanks to new federal tax breaks and a massive increase in state and federal grants to most students and their families.

"Contrary to the widespread perception that tuition is soaring out of control, a USA TODAY analysis found that what students actually pay in tuition and fees — rather than the published tuition price — has declined for a vast majority of students attending four-year public universities. The newspaper concluded, "today's students have enjoyed the greatest improvement in college affordability since the GI bill provided benefits for returning World War II veterans."

Health Care: Conservatives may not love all of Bush's health-care proposals, but one can hardly accuse Bush of ignoring the issue. He's created the Medicare prescription drug benefit, new health savings accounts, added 600 new community-health centers, and allowed states more flexibility with Medicaid.

Increasing health-care costs may have something to do with advances in technology, research, pharmaceuticals. Apparently Kerry believes he can make the medical community keep making breakthroughs and advances without getting any additional money from patients to pay for them.

President Bush proposes reforming the court system to eliminate frivolous lawsuits, including those accusing medical malpractice. Think you will get serious reform of malpractice law under Vice President John Edwards?

College: You're getting redundant, Senator.

"Focusing on values like opportunity, responsibility and fairness, Kerry said at both events today that a Kerry-Edwards administration will fight for good paying jobs and an economy that lifts up middle-class families.

"'Let me tell you what values mean to me and John Edwards,' Kerry said. "Values mean creating opportunity and fighting for good paying jobs that let American families actually get ahead. It means building an America where the middle class is doing better, not being squeezed."

"Kerry and Edwards have a comprehensive plan to create 10 million new, better paying jobs."

Their goal of ten million new jobs over four years would slow the current rate of job growth by one third.

Anyone who reads a newspaper consistently — or the Kerry Spot — can see that Kerry hasn't changed his economic outlook, rhetoric, or prescriptions one iota from last year, or 2002. A challenger needs a bad economy to win, so no matter how well the economy does, Kerry insists it's doing poorly. All of the stock market growth, he contends, is an illusion. The hiring numbers? Lies! Homeownership rates are at record levels? It's a trick! Inflation is low? That's a sign of disaster! Up really means down! Black really means white! Who are you going to believe, Kerry's press releases, or your own lying eyes?


Name:   Individual
Re:   Another (hic) lie
Message:
When Bush was a big-time boozer, he got caught driving drunk. Bush said, "I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned by lesson." When he was asked whether he had taken a sobriety test during his arrest, Bush said, "No. I admitted I was wrong."

The Real Story: Bush's campaign admitted the day after the above statement that Bush had lied: Bush had been given a sobriety test. Bush did not admit that he was wrong. The pattern becomes clearer: If Bush thinks he can get away with it, he will lie (maybe even cheat and steal for all I know) to cover his @ss.


Name:   Dave Kopel
Re:   The 59 Deceits of Farenheit 9-11
Message:
There are many articles which have pointed out the distortions, falsehoods, and lies in the film Fahrenheit 9/11. This report compiles the Fahrenheit 9/11 deceits which have been identified by a wide variety of reviewers. In addition, I identify some inaccuracies which have not been addressed by other writers.

The report follows the approximate order in which the movie covers particular topics: the Bush family, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. This report focuses solely on factual issues, and not on aesthetic criticism of the film.

To understand the deceptions, it helps to understand Moore’s ideological position. So let us start with Moore’s belief that the September 11 attacks on the United States were insignificant.

Edward Koch, the former Democratic Mayor of New York City, writes:

A year after 9/11, I was part of a panel discussion on BBC-TV’s “Question Time” show which aired live in the United Kingdom. A portion of my commentary at that time follows:

“One of the panelists was Michael Moore…During the warm-up before the studio audience, Moore said something along the lines of “I don’t know why we are making so much of an act of terror. It is three times more likely that you will be struck by lightning than die from an act of terror.”…I mention this exchange because it was not televised, occurring as it did before the show went live. It shows where he was coming from long before he produced “Fahrenheit 9/11.”

Edward Koch, “Moore’s propaganda film cheapens debate, polarizes nation,” World Tribune, June 28, 2004. [Moore response: none.]

By the way, I don't disagree with the point that it is reasonable to consider the number of deaths from any particular problem, including terrorism, in assessing how serious the problem is. Moore's point, however, was willfully oblivious to the fact that al Qaeda did not intend 9/11 to be the last word; the organization was working on additional attacks, and if the organization obtained the right weapons, millions of people might be killed. More fundamentally, even if Moore's argument in London is conceded to be legitimate, it contradicts Fahrenheit 9/11's presentation of Moore as intensely concerned about the September 11 attacks.

As we go through the long list of lies and tricks in Fahrenheit 9/11, keep in mind that Michael Moore has assembled a “war room” of political operatives and lawyers in order to respond to criticism of Fahrenheit 9/11 and to file defamation suits. (Jack Shafer, “Libel Suit 9/11. Michael Moore’s hysterical, empty threats,” Slate.com, June 12, 2004.) One of Moore's "war room" officials is Chris Lehane; Lehane, as an employee of Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark (who was also supported by Moore), is alleged to have spread rumors to the press about John Kerry's alleged extra-marital affair, although Lehane denies doing so.

Of course if there are any genuine errors in this report, the errors will be promptly corrected. On July 5, I removed a complaint about a Presidential approval poll number, which I had wrongly thought was not supported by data.

In this report, I number Moore’s deceits. Some of them are outright lies; some are omissions which create a false impression. Others involve different forms of deception. A few are false statements Moore has made when defending the film. Judge for yourself the credibility of Michael Moore's promise, "Every single fact I state in 'Fahrenheit 9/11' is the absolute and irrefutable truth...Do not let anyone say this or that isn't true. If they say that, they are lying."


Name:   Dave Kopel
Re:   The 59 Deceits of Farenheit 9-11
Message:
2000 Election Night

Deceits 1-2

Fahrenheit 9/11 begins on election night 2000. We are first shown the Al Gore rocking on stage with famous musicians and a high-spirited crowd. The conspicuous sign on stage reads “Florida Victory.” Moore creates the impression that Gore was celebrating his victory in Florida.

Actually, the rally took place in the early hours of election day, before polls had even opened. Gore did campaign in Florida on election day, but went home to Tennessee to await the results. The “Florida Victory” sign reflected Gore’s hopes, not any actual election results. (“Gore Campaigns Into Election Day,” Associated Press, Nov. 7, 2000.)

The film shows CBS and CNN calling Florida for Al Gore. According to the narrator, “Then something called the Fox News Channel called the election in favor of the other guy….All of a sudden the other networks said, ‘Hey, if Fox said it, it must be true.’”

We then see NBC anchor Tom Brokaw stating, “All of us networks made a mistake and projected Florida in the Al Gore column. It was our mistake.”

Moore thus creates the false impression that the networks withdrew their claim about Gore winning Florida when they heard that Fox said that Bush won Florida.

In fact, the networks which called Florida for Gore did so early in the evening—before polls had even closed in the Florida panhandle, which is part of the Central Time Zone. NBC called Florida for Gore at 7:49:40 p.m., Eastern Time. This was 10 minutes before polls closed in the Florida panhandle. Thirty seconds later, CBS called Florida for Gore. And at 7:52 p.m., Fox called Florida for Gore. Moore never lets the audience know that Fox was among the networks which made the error of calling Florida for Gore prematurely. Then at 8:02 p.m., ABC called Florida for Gore. Only ABC had waited until the Florida polls were closed.

About an hour before the polls closed in panhandle Florida, the networks called the U.S. Senate race in favor of the Democratic candidate. The networks seriously compounded the problem because from 6-7 Central Time, they repeatedly announced that polls had closed in Florida--even though polls were open in the panhandle. (See also Joan Konner, James Risser & Ben Wattenberg, Television's Performance on Election Night 2000: A Report for CNN, Jan. 29, 2001.)

The false announcements that the polls were closed, as well as the premature calls (the Presidential race ten minutes early; the Senate race an hour early), may have cost Bush thousands of votes from the conservative panhandle, as discouraged last-minute voters heard that their state had already been decided; some last-minute voters on their way to the polling place turned around and went home. Other voters who were waiting in line left the polling place. In Florida, as elsewhere, voters who have arrived at the polling place before closing time often end up voting after closing time, because of long lines. The conventional wisdom of politics is that supporters of the losing candidate are most likely to give up on voting when they hear that their side has already lost. Thus, on election night 1980, when incumbent President Jimmy Carter gave a concession speech while polls were still open on the west coast, the early concession was blamed for costing the Democrats several Congressional seats in the West, such as that of 20-year incumbent James Corman. The fact that all the networks had declared Reagan a landslide winner while west coast voting was still in progress was also blamed for Democratic losses in the West; Congress even held hearings about prohibiting the disclosure of exit polls before voting had ended in the any of the 48 contiguous states.

Even if the premature television calls affected all potential voters equally, the effect was to reduce Republican votes significantly, because the Florida panhandle is a Republican stronghold. Most of Central Time Zone Florida is in the 1st Congressional District, which is known as the "Redneck Riviera." In that district, Bob Dole beat Bill Clinton by 69,000 votes in 1996, even though Clinton won the state by 300,000 votes. So depress overall turnout in the panhandle, and you will necessarily depress more Republican than Democratic votes. A 2001 study by John Lott suggested that the early calls cost Bush at least 7,500 votes, and perhaps many more. Another study reported that the networks reduced panhandle turn-out by about 19,000 votes, costing Bush about 12,000 votes and Gore about 7,000 votes.

At 10:00 p.m., which networks took the lead in retracting the premature Florida win for Gore? Theu were CNN and CBS, not Fox. (The two networks were using a shared Decision Team.) See Linda Mason, Kathleen Francovic & Kathleen Hall Jamieson, “CBS News Coverage of Election Night 2000: Investigation, Analysis, Recommendations” (CBS News, Jan. 2001), pp. 12-25.)

In fact, Fox did not retract its claim that Gore had won Florida until 2 a.m.--four hours after other networks had withdrawn the call.

Over four hours later, at 2:16 a.m., Fox projected Bush as the Florida winner, as did all the other networks by 2:20 a.m.

At 3:59 a.m., CBS took the lead in retracting the Florida call for Bush. All the other networks, including Fox, followed the CBS lead within eight minutes. That the networks arrived at similar conclusions within a short period of time is not surprising, since they were all using the same data from the Voter News Service. (Mason, et al. "CBS News Coverage.") As the CBS timeline details, throughout the evening all networks called states used VNS data to call states, even though VNS had not called the state; sometimes the network calls were made hours ahead of the VNS call.

Moore’s editing technique of the election night segment is typical of his style: all the video clips are real clips, and nothing he says is, narrowly speaking, false. But notice how he says, “Then something called the Fox News Channel called the election in favor of the other guy…” The impression created is that the Fox call of Florida for Bush came soon after the CBS/CNN calls of Florida for Gore, and that Fox caused the other networks to change (“All of a sudden the other networks said, ‘Hey, if Fox said it, it must be true.’”)

This is the essence of the Moore technique: cleverly blending half-truths to deceive the viewer.

[Moore response: On the Florida victory celebration, none. On the networks calls: provides citations for the early and incorrect Florida calls for Gore, around 8 p.m. Eastern Time, and for the late-evening network calls of Florida for Bush around 2:20 a.m. Doesn't mention the retraction of the Florida calls at 10 p.m., or that CBS led the retraction.]


Name:   Individual
In response to:
Kerry ignores the fact that from 2000 to 2003, the economy experienced the dot-com, high-tech, and stock-market bubbles bursting; the terrorist attacks of September 11 and subsequent war on terror including the war in Iraq; and the discovery of corporate accounting scandals, years in the making, that undermined confidence in corporate America.

Message:
During the big war, WWII, the market did quite well after the initial two-year shock, even though we weren't quite out of the republican-induced depression. And we weren't fighting a bunch of Saddam's mickey-mouse troops (the ones who couldn't even beat Iran), but two sophisticated armies: Germany and Japan.


Name:   PWT
To:   individual

Re:   You must get a lot of pubic hairs stuck between your teeth
In response to:
During the big war, WWII, the market did quite well after the initial two-year shock,

Message:
Get a job!


Name:   Dave Kopel
Re:   The 59 Deceits of Farenheit 9-11
Message:
2000 Election Recount

Deceit 3

How did Bush win Florida? "Second, make sure the chairman of your campaign is also the vote count woman." Actually Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris (who was Bush's Florida co-chair, not the chairman," was not the "vote count woman." Vote counting in Florida is performed by the election commissioners in each of Florida's counties. The Florida Secretary of State merely certifies the reported vote. The office does not count votes.

A little while later, Fahrenheit shows Jeffrey Toobin (a sometime talking head lawyer for CNN) claiming that if the Supreme Court had allowed a third recount to proceed past the legal deadline, “under every scenario Gore won the election.”

Fahrenheit shows only a snippet of Toobin's remarks on CNN. What Fahrenheit does not show is that Toobin admitted on CNN that the only scenarios for a Gore victory involved a type of recount which Gore had never requested in his lawsuits, and which would have been in violation of Florida law. Toobin's theory likewise depends on re-assigning votes which are plainly marked for one candidate (Pat Buchanan) to Gore, although there are no provisions in Florida law to guess at who a voter "really" meant to vote for and to re-assign the vote.

A six-month study by a consortium including the New York Times, Washington Post and CNN disproves Fahrenheit's claim that Gore won under any scenario.

As USA Today summarized, on May 11, 2001:

Who would have won if Al Gore had gotten manual counts he requested in four counties? Answer: George W. Bush."

"Who would have won if the U.S. Supreme Court had not stopped the hand recount of undervotes, which are ballots that registered no machine-readable vote for president? Answer: Bush, under three of four standards."

"Who would have won if all disputed ballots — including those rejected by machines because they had more than one vote for president — had been recounted by hand? Answer: Bush, under the two most widely used standards; Gore, under the two least used."

Throughout the Florida election controversy, the focus was on "undervotes"--ballots which were disqualified because the voter had not properly indicated a candidate, such as by punching out a small piece of paper on the paper ballot. The recounts attempted to discern voter intentions from improperly-marked ballots. Thus, if a ballot had a "hanging chad," a recount official might decide that the voter intended to vote for the candidate, but failed to properly punch out the chad; so the recounter would award the candidate a vote from the "spoiled" ballot. Gore was seeking additional recounts only of undervotes. The only scenario by which Gore would have won Florida would have involved recounts of "overvotes"--ballots which were spoiled because the voter voted for more than one candidate (such as by marking two names, or by punching out two chads). Most of the overvotes which were recoverable were those on which the voter had punched out a chad (or made a check mark) and had also written the candidate's name on the write-in line. Gore's lawsuits never sought a recount of overvotes, so even if the Supreme Court had allowed a Florida recount to continue past the legal deadline, Bush still would have won the additional recount which Gore sought.

A very interesting web widget published by the New York Times allows readers to crunch the data any way they want: what standards for counting ballots, whose counting system to apply, and how to treat overvotes. It's certainly possible under some of the variable scenarios to produce a Gore victory. But it's undeniably dishonest for Fahrenheit to assert that Gore would win under any scenario.

[Moore response: Cites articles consistent with my explanation. Fails to acknowledge that the only scenarios for a Gore victory involved recounting methods which Gore never requested in his lawsuits. To tell viewers that Gore would have won "under every scenario" is absurd.]


Name:   Not since Hoover Heebert
In response to:
During the big war, WWII, the market did quite well after the initial two-year shock

Message:
And we're recovering quite nicely in spite of the news blackout...


Name:   Dave Kopel
Re:   The 59 Deceits of Farenheit 9-11
Message:
Florida Purge of Convicted Felons from Voter Rolls

Deceit 4

According to Fahrenheit, Bush cronies hired Data Base Technologies to purge Florida voters who might vote for Gore, and these potential voters were purged from the voting rolls on the basis of race. ("Second, make sure the chairman of your campaign is also the vote count woman. And that her state has hired a company that's gonna knock voters off the rolls who aren't likely to vote for you. You can usually tell 'em by the color of their skin.") As explained by the Palm Beach Post, Moore's suggestion is extremely incomplete, and on at least one fact, plainly false.

The 1998 mayoral election in Miami was a fiasco which was declared void by Florida courts, because--in violation of Florida law--convicted felons had been allowed to vote. The Florida legislature ordered the executive branch to purge felons from the voting rolls before the next election. Following instructions from Florida officials, Data Base Technologies (DBT) aggressively attempted to identify all convicted felons who were illegally registered to vote in Florida.

There were two major problems with the purge. First, several states allow felons to vote once they have completed their sentences. Some of these ex-felons moved to Florida and were, according to a court decision, eligible to vote. Florida improperly purged these immigrant felons.

Second, the comprehensive effort to identify all convicted felons led to large number of false positives, in which persons with, for example, the same name as a convicted felon, were improperly purged. Purged voters were, in most cases, notified months before the election and given an opportunity to appeal, but the necessity to file an appeal was in itself a barrier which probably discouraged some legitimate, non-felon citizens from voting. According to the Palm Beach Post, at least 1,100 people were improperly purged.

The overbreadth of the purge was well-known in Florida before the election. As a result, election officials in 20 of Florida's counties ignored the purge list entirely. In these counties, convicted felons were allowed to vote. Also according to the Post, thousands of felons were improperly allowed to vote in the 20 non-purging counties. Analysis by Abigail Thernstrom and Russell G. Redenbaugh, dissenting from a report by the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, suggests that about 5,600 felons voted illegally in Florida. (The Thernstrom/Redenbaugh dissent explains why little credit should be given to the majority report, which was produced by flagrantly ignoring data.)

When allowed to vote, felons vote approximately 69 percent Democratic, according to a study in the American Sociological Review. Therefore, if the thousands of felons in the non-purging 20 counties had not been illegally allowed to vote, it is likely that Bush's statewide margin would have been substantially larger.

Regardless, Moore's suggestion that the purge was conducted on the basis of race was indisputably false. As the Palm Beach Post details, all the evidence shows that Data Base Technologies did not use race as a basis for the purge. Indeed, DBT's refusal to take note of a registered voter's race was one of the reasons for the many cases of mistaken identity.

DBT's computers had matched these people with felons, though in dozens of cases they did not share the same name, birthdate, gender or race...[A] review of state records, internal e-mails of DBT employees and testimony before the civil rights commission and an elections task force showed no evidence that minorities were specifically targeted. Records show that DBT told the state it would not use race as a criterion to identify felons. The list itself bears that out: More than 1,000 voters were matched with felons though they were of different races.

The appeals record supports the Palm Beach Post's findings. Based on the numbers of successful appeals, blacks were less likely to have been improperly placed on the purge list: of the blacks who were purged, 5.1 percent successfully appealed. Of Hispanics purged, 8.7 percent successfully appealed. Of whites purged, 9.9 percent successfully appealed. John R. Lott, Jr., "Nonvoted Ballots and Discrimination in Florida," Journal of Legal Studies, vol. 32 (Jan. 2003), p. 209. Of course it is theoretically possible that the appeals officials discriminated against blacks, or that improperly purged blacks were not as likely to appeal as were people of other races. But no one has offered any evidence to support such possibilities.

[Moore response: Cites various articles about the felon purge. Offers no evidence to support the claim that voters were targeted on the basis of race.]


Name:   Individual
In response to:
And we're recovering quite nicely in spite of the news blackout...

Message:
I think so. But there is no comparison with Bush's war and WWII. Bush's war was fought against a bunch of mickey-mouse Saddamites.


Name:   Smedley
To:   spIndividual

In response to:
During the big war, WWII, the market did quite well after the initial two-year shock, even though we weren't quite out of the republican-induced depression.

Message:
Hey, spIndy, the Depression lasted until 1938, and WWII had already begun. FACT, puss-head.

Oh yes, the great depression was caused by rampant trade protectionism -- just ask Al Gore, who made it a point to impress upon Mssr. Perot about the Haley-Smoot Act. The trade protection frensy was brought about in part by the stock market crash, which was caused by reckless speculation in the market.

What part was "republican induced"? Oh yes, and one reason the US markets were doing well was because the US was supplying war goods to allies everywhere.

And we weren't fighting a bunch of Saddam's mickey-mouse troops (the ones who couldn't even beat Iran), but two sophisticated armies: Germany and Japan.

Fortunately, in circa 1940 Democrats were patriots, not the backstabbing weasels they are today. Bush needs to fight the radical portion of a billion muslims plus hundreds of thousands of radical Dems.


Name:   Dave Kopel
Re:   The 59 Deceits of Farenheit 9-11
Message:
Bush Presidency before September 11

Deceit 5

The movie lauds an anti-Bush riot that took place in Washington, D.C., on the day of Bush’s inauguration. He claims that protestors "pelted Bush's limo with eggs." Actually, it was just one egg, according to the BBC. According to Moore, "No President had ever witnessed such a thing on his inauguration day. " According to CNN, Richard Nixon faced comparable protests in 1969 and 1973.

Moore continues: “No President had ever witnessed such a thing on his inauguration day. And for the next eight months it didn’t get any better for George W. Bush. He couldn’t get his judges appointed; he had trouble getting his legislation passed; and he lost Republican control of the Senate. His approval ratings in the polls began to sink.”

Part of this is true. Once Vermont Senator Jim Jeffords left the Republican party, Democrats controlled the Senate, and stalled the confirmation of some of the judges whom Bush had nominated for the federal courts.

Congress did enact the top item on Bush’s agenda: a large tax cut. During the summer, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives easily passed many of Bush’s other agenda items, including the bill whose numbering reflected the President’s top priority: H.R. 1, the Bush “No Child Left Behind” education bill. The fate of the Bush bills in the Democratic-controlled Senate, as of August 2001, was uncertain. The Senate later did pass No Child Left Behind, but some other Bush proposals did not pass.

Moore says that Bush's "approval ratings in the polls began to sink." This is not entirely accurate, although I haven't counted this issue as a "deceit." From January 2001 to September 2001, Bush's approval ratings in almost all polls fluctuated pretty narrowly in a 50-59% range. Moore accurately cites a Christian Science Monitor poll with 45 percent approval for Bush on September 5, 2001, but the low result here is an outlier compared to the overall poll trend. What really changed for Bush, pollwise, was not that his approval ratings were sinking, but that his disapproval ratings had risen. The national polls showed that the approve/disapprove gap for Bush was much larger in January 2001 than in the late summer of 2001. So Moore is correct that Bush's polls numbers had deteriorated, although Moore's phrasing is not correct.

"He was already beginning to look like a lame duck President." Maybe in Moore's imagination. No serious political commentator made such a claim in 2001.

Bush is quoted as saying, "A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it." What Moore fails to note, though, is that the quote, from July 26, 2001, is a facetious joke, like Moore's claim in Dude, Where's my Country? that he did not have sex until age 32.

Another Bush joke is presented as an obvious joke, although important context is missing. Near the end of the movie, Bush speaks to a tuxedoed audience. He says, “I call you the haves and the have-mores. Some call you the elite; I call you my base.” The joke follows several segments in which Bush is accused of having started the Iraq war in order to enrich business. As far the movie audience can tell, Bush is speaking to some unknown group of rich people. The speech actually comes from the October 19, 2000, Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner. The 2000 event was the 55th annual dinner, which raises money for Catholic hospital charities in New York City. Candidates Bush and Gore were the co-guests of honor at the event, where speakers traditionally make fun of themselves.

Gore joked, "The Al Smith Dinner represents a hallowed and important tradition, which I actually did invent." Lampooning his promise to put Social Security in a "lock box," Gore promised that he would put "Medicare in a walk-in closet," put NASA funding in a "hermetically sealed Ziploc bag" and would "always keep lettuce in the crisper." Mary Ann Poust, "Presidential hopefuls Gore and Bush mix humor and politics at Al Smith Dinner," Catholic New York, Oct. 26, 2000. So although Fahrenheit presents the joke as epitomizing Bush's selfishness, the joke really was part of Bush helping to raise $1.6 million for medical care for the poor. Although many a truth is said in jest, Bush's joke was no more revealing than was Gore's claim to have founded the dinner in 1946, two years before he was born.

[Moore response: Cites articles predicting that Bush would having trouble with Congress on Arctic drilling, campaign finance, and faith-based charity. Cites a California poll in which Bush's disapproval rating equaled his approval rating. Cites a couple additional polls, selecting Bush's worst results. No response on the distortion of the Alfred E. Smith Dinner.]


Name:   Teacher-Educator (Retired)
To:   Individual

Re:   Thank goodness, we have Ritalin here!
In response to:
I think so. But there is no comparison with Bush's war and WWII. Bush's war was fought against a bunch of mickey-mouse Saddamites. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
A bunch of silly school boys, really. Junior High types flinging their little spit-balls. I think you and Merci Moi should get over there right now and give them each a good spanking!


Name:   Thanks Mike!
Re:   Once Moore The Law of unintended consequences bites LIBS
Message:
There's a Washington Post poll out today. I forget to mention this to you. This is not, I guarantee you, folks, in the bowels and the cloakrooms of the Kerry campaign, the Democratic Party, when they read this, they're going to throw up their arms. "What more do we have to do?" In the post-Michael Moore (stories) so-called documentary era comes this poll from the Washington Post. "Despite growing fears that the U.S. is losing the war on terrorism," despite those fears, "President Bush has reclaimed the advantage over John Kerry as the presidential candidate best able to deal with the international terrorist threat.

"The survey found that 55% of all Americans currently approve of the way Bush is handling the campaign against terrorism, up five points since Michael Moore's movie came out. [EIB emphasis added] Slightly more than half, 51%, also said that they trust Bush more than Kerry to deal with terrorism, while 42% prefer Kerry. Three weeks ago, when the Michael Moore movie came out, the two were tied on this crucial voting issue, which ranks with the economy and the situation in Iraq as top concerns this presidential election."

Don't tell me about Fahrenheit 9/11, I don't want to hear about it anymore.


Name:   Things You Don't Know About The Kerry's
Message:
GOP convention protests funded by Kerry's wife Anarchist 'Ruckus Society' trains for blockades, chaos, disruptions

Some of the groups organizing protests at this summer's Republican National Convention in New York – including one anarchist outfit planning disruptions – get funding from a foundation chaired by Teresa Heinz Kerry, the wife of the presumed Democratic Party presidential nominee.

Heinz Kerry, worth as much as $1 billion according to some estimates, has directed donations in the millions to the Tides Foundation, a 28-year-old grant-making institution that funds some of the principal groups organizing demonstrations and disruptions of the GOP convention.

The umbrella coalition organizing the protests is called United for Peace and Justice – strongly critical of the war in Iraq. The coalition was sponsored by Ramsey Clark's International Action Center, which was funded by the Tides Center's Iraq Peace Fund and Peace Studies Fund. Clark's group also sponsored International ANSWER. Both groups are run by long-time communist revolutionaries.

Teresa Heinz Kerry's favorite charity has also funded The Ruckus Society, an anarchist group known for disrupting the World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle in 1999 and planning similar disruptions for the New York convention. The group has been training protesters for the GOP convention in the art of sit-ins and blockades.


Name:   Michael Eisner
To:   Individual

In response to:
I think so. But there is no comparison with Bush's war and WWII. Bush's war was fought against a bunch of mickey-mouse Saddamites.

Message:
Are you implying a link between Saddam and Disney?


Name:   OPP
Message:


Name:   Mr. Hummer
Message:
http://msn.ancestry.com/landing/strange/bush4/tree.htm


Name:   Civil Bagdasarian
Message:
Rapture Ready
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Print a text version of this article
Israel 'ready' to strike Iran

Submitted By:Jack
Click for Source Article
Israel has conducted military exercises for a pre-emptive strike against several of Iran's nuclear power facilities and is ready to attack if Russia supplies Iran with rods for enriching uranium, Israeli officials told reporters.

An Israeli defense source in Tel Aviv told the London Sunday Times, which first published the story, that "Israel will on no account permit Iranian reactors – especially the one being built in Bushehr with Russian help – to go critical."

The source was also quoted as saying that any strike on Iran's reactors would probably be carried out by long-range F-15I jets, flying over Turkey, with simultaneous operations by commandos on the ground.

Russia is expected to deliver the enriching rods, currently being stored at a Russian port, late next year after a dispute over financial terms is resolved.

"If the worst comes to the worst and international efforts fail," the source said, "we are very confident we'll be able to demolish the ayatollah's nuclear aspirations in one go."


The source explained that any strike could be accompanied by an attack on other Iranian targets, including a facility at Natanz, where the Iranians have attempted to enrich uranium, and a plant at Arak, which International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors suspect of nuclear activity.

The Sunday Times also quoted a senior U.S. official warning of a pre-emptive Israeli strike if Russia continues cooperating with the Iranians. He said Washington was unlikely to block Israeli attacks against Iran.

The paper quoted a classified document on the Iranian threat which was presented to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon earlier this year and which the paper claims to have seen. The document, entitled "The Strategic Future of Israel," was first reported by Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin, a premium, online intelligence newsletter published by WorldNetDaily.

G2 quotes the report, which was drafted by four of Israel's senior defense experts, as saying "All enemy targets should be selected with the view that their destruction would promptly force the enemy to cease all nuclear/biological/chemical exchanges with Israel."

The report also called on Israel to develop a multilayered ballistic missile defense system and described Iran as a "suicide nation," recommending "targeted killings" of members of the country's elite, including its leading nuclear scientists.

Iran signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and has obligated itself to random inspections supervised by the IAEA. But the treaty allows Iran to produce nuclear material as long as it can plausibly claim the production is for "peaceful purposes."

Experts warn that Iran can build the infrastructure needed to make nuclear weapons, telling inspectors they need the material for "energy and nuclear medicine research," and then kick out the inspectors, renounce the treaty and quickly assemble a nuclear arsenal, as did North Korea, which is now said to have ten nuclear warheads.

Under the Iranian deal with Moscow, waste produced at the Bushehr plant containing plutonium that could be used in bomb-making would be shipped back to Russia for storage, but the material must first be cooled, providing Iran with what Washington fears could be up to two years in which to extract the plutonium.

The paper quotes Israeli sources as saying that a quarter ton of plutonium could be produced each a year if Bushehr is fully functional, enough for 20 bombs.

The Sunday Times reports Israeli sources fear a pre-emptive strike against Iranian nuclear facilities could provoke "a ferocious response," which could involve Lebanese-based rocket attacks on northern Israel or terrorist attacks against Jewish and Israeli targets abroad.




Name:   Takki
To:   Wong wee

Message:
The River

Three men were hiking through a forest when they came upon a large, violently raging river.

Needing to get to the other side, the first man prayed, "God, please give me

the strength to cross the river." POOF!

God gave him big strong arms and legs and he was able to swim across in about 2 hours, having almost drowned twice.

After witnessing that, the second man prayed, "God, please give me the strength and the tools to cross the river." POOF!

God gave him a rowboat and strong arms and legs and he was able to row across the river after almost capsizing once.

Seeing what happened to the first two men, the third man prayed, "God, please give me the strength, the tools and the intelligence to cross the river."

POOF!

He was turned into a woman. She checked the map, hiked one hundred yards up stream and walked across the bridge.


Name:   Master of debate
Message:
Kerry looks like a rainbow colored dildo!


Name:   GWB
Re:   fightin' racist hatin' lefties
Message:


Name:   jewish kid
In response to:
Kerry looks like a rainbow colored dildo!

Message:
Abe Lincoln: Thank God for Kerry. Now Im only the 2nd ugliest person ever to run for president


Name:   Jewish Kidd
Message:
Remember, this is our future, and the future of our civil rights as human beings that is at stake here. Vote BUSH!


Name:   Mary Jo Kopechne
To:   Woo Tangs gang

Re:   current pic of the Commie
In response to:
glad they labeled the pic. I'd have never guessed it was her. Are you sure it's not Michael Whoore impersonating Linda R?

Message:

Desperado, of all songs.....

Linda Ronstadt apparently got what she wanted -- to be 86'd from the Aladdin.

In a bizarre performance notable for its bridge-burning comments, Ronstadt inflamed more than her Aladdin audience on Saturday by taking potshots at Las Vegas and dedicating "Desperado" to "Fahrenheit 9/11" filmmaker Michael Moore.

When her show was over, the Aladdin had her checked out of her room and escorted off the premises.

Many walked out during the show, one concertgoer tossed a cocktail on her poster, others defaced her posters and the box office was "a mob scene" of people seeking refunds, according to an Aladdin spokeswoman.

"It's amazing how ugly it got," said Tyri Squyres, director of public relations at the Aladdin.

Ronstadt was a one-woman heat wave.

Early in the show she told the crowd not to expect her greatest hits and added a snide remark or two about Las Vegas and the Aladdin. Scores of fans filed out when Ronstadt made her dedication to Moore and his controversial political film.

"Our management is incredibly upset," Squyres said. "We're just very disappointed because we hired her for a good evening of entertainment for our guests.

"It was like she came in with a chip on her shoulder," Squyres said.

Ronstadt allowed no meet-and-greets and no photographers.

Squyres said Ronstadt "inaccurately" told the crowd she saw a billboard that promoted a greatest-hits show. Ronstadt's camp had provided and approved all ads, commercials, billboards and news releases, Squyres said.

"To be clear, the Aladdin does not condone the comments made by Ms. Ronstadt," Squyres said by e-mail. "Ms. Ronstadt was hired to entertain the guests of the Aladdin, not to espouse her political views. Following her performance she was escorted out of the hotel and immediately checked out of her room. And she will not be welcomed back."

In an interview with the R-J's Mike Weatherford before the show, Ronstadt said with a laugh: "I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back."


Name:   Stew
To:   Look

Message:
John Kerry 666


Name:   Dave Kopel
Re:   The 59 Deceits of Farenheit 9-11
Message:
Bush Vacations

Deceits 6-7

Fahrenheit 9/11 states, “In his first eight months in office before September 11th, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the Washington Post, forty-two percent of the time.”

Shortly before 9/11, the Post calculated that Bush had spent 42 percent of his presidency at vacation spots or en route, including all or part of 54 days at his ranch. That calculation, however, includes weekends, which Moore failed to mention.

Tom McNamee, “Just the facts on ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’ Chicago Sun-Times, June 28, 2004. See also: Mike Allen, “White House On the Range. Bush Retreats to Ranch for ‘Working Vacation’,” Washington Post, August 7, 2001 (Many of those days are weekends, and the Camp David stays have included working visits with foreign leaders.)

[T]he shot of him “relaxing at Camp David” shows him side by side with Tony Blair. I say “shows,” even though this photograph is on-screen so briefly that if you sneeze or blink, you won’t recognize the other figure. A meeting with the prime minister of the United Kingdom, or at least with this prime minister, is not a goof-off.

The president is also captured in a well-worn TV news clip, on a golf course, making a boilerplate response to a question on terrorism and then asking the reporters to watch his drive. Well, that’s what you get if you catch the president on a golf course.

Christopher Hitchens, “Unfairenheit 9/11: The lies of Michael Moore,” Slate.com, June 21, 2004. (Some of Moore's defenders have denounced Hitchens as a member of the vast-right wing conspiracy. Hitchens, however, used the death of Ronald Reagan as an occasions to write a June 7 obituary calling Reagan "a cruel and stupid lizard." Hitchens also wrote a book and produced a movie, The Trials of Henry Kissinger, urging that Kissinger be tried for war crimes.)

By the way, the clip of Bush making a comment about terrorism, and then hitting a golf ball, is also taken out of context, at least partially:

Tuesday night on FNC’s Special Report with Brit Hume, Brian Wilson noted how “the viewer is left with the misleading impression Mr. Bush is talking about al-Qaeda terrorists.” But Wilson disclosed that “a check of the raw tape reveals the President is talking about an attack against Israel, carried out by a Palestinian suicide bomber.”

"Cyber," Media Research Center, July 1, 2004, item. 3.

Moore wraps up the vacation segment: "It was a summer to remember. And when it was over, he left Texas for his second favorite place." The movie then shows Bush in Florida. Actually, we went back to Washington, where he gave a speech on August 31.

[Moore response: Accurately quotes the Washington Post: "if you add up all his weekends at Camp David, layovers at Kennebunkport and assorted to-ing and fro-ing, W. will have spent 42 percent of his presidency 'at vacation spots or en route.'" Does not attempt to defend Fahrenheit's mischaracterization of the Post's meaning. Does not explain why the Israeli context was removed from the Bush quote. Does not defend the claim that Bush went from Texas to Florida.]

September 11

Moore's changing positions

Fahrenheit presents a powerful segment on the September 11 attacks. There is no narration, and the music is dramatic yet tasteful. The visuals are reaction shots from pedestrians, as they gasp with horrified astonishment.

Moore has been criticized for using the reaction shots as a clever way to avoid showing the planes hitting the buildings, and some of the victims falling to their deaths. Even if this is true, the segment still effectively evokes the horror and outrage that every decent human being still feels about September 11.

But as New York’s former Mayor Edward Koch reported, Moore says, “I don’t know why we are making so much of an act of terror. It is three times more likely that you will be struck by lightning than die from an act of terror.” If there is some additional context which would explain Moore's remarks, he has not supplied such context on his website. It seems unlikely that Moore's "war room" is unaware of the highly critical review written by former NYC Mayor Koch.

Moore's first public comment about the September 11 attacks was to complain that too many Democrats rather than Republicans had been killed: "If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who did not vote for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes' destination of California--these were places that voted against Bush!" (The quote was originally posted as a "Mike's Message" on Moore's website on September 12, but was removed not long after. Among the many places where Moore's quote has been repeated is The New Statesman, a leftist British political magazine.) On the other hand, a person might feel great personal sympathy for the victim of a lightning strike, but the same person might feel that, overall, the "lightning problem" is not worth making a big fuss over. Fahrenheit presents September 11 as a terrible tragedy (in which Moore lost one of his friends and many other people lost loved ones), and as something worth making a big fuss. On this latter point, Fahrenheit's purported view does not appear to be the same as Moore's actual view. Although I consider the disjunction to be deceitful, other people may not.

[Moore response: none.]

Bush on September 11

Cheap Shot

Fahrenheit mocks President Bush for continuing to read a story to a classroom of elementary school children after he was told about the September 11 attacks.

What Moore did not tell you:

Gwendolyn Tose’-Rigell, the principal of Emma E. Booker Elementary School, praised Bush’s action: “I don’t think anyone could have handled it better.” “What would it have served if he had jumped out of his chair and ran out of the room?”…

She said the video doesn’t convey all that was going on in the classroom, but Bush’s presence had a calming effect and “helped us get through a very difficult day.”

“Sarasota principal defends Bush from ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’ portrayal,” Associated Press, June 24, 2004. Also, since the President knew he was on camera, it was reasonable to expect that if he had suddenly sped out of the room, his hasty movement would have been replayed incessantly on television; leaving the room quickly might have exacerbated the national mood of panic, even if Bush had excused himself calmly.

Moore does not offer any suggestion about what the President should have done during those seven minutes, rather than staying calm for the sake of the classroom and of the public. Nor does Moore point to any way that the September 11 events might have turned out better in even the slightest way if the President had acted differently. I agree with Lee Hamilton, the Vice-Chair of the September11 Commission and a former Democratic Representative from Indiana: "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom."

[Moore response: Defends the factual accuracy of the segment, which no one has ever disputed.]


Name:   Teddy Kennedy
To:   Individual

Re:   Brain like a ping-pong ball...
In response to:
When Bush was a big-time boozer, he got caught driving drunk. Bush said, "I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned by lesson." When he was asked whether he had taken a sobriety test during his arrest, Bush said, "No. I admitted I was wrong."

Message:
Shut your God-damned mouth, you stupid parrot!


Name:   M
Re:   Linda "YOUR no good, no good, no good, baby..."
In response to:
glad they labeled the pic. I'd have never guessed it was her. Are you sure it's not Michael Whoore impersonating Linda R? Message:

Message:
I think they are on the same diet, it must makes you fat AND stupid.


Name:   Screw All 21st Century Communists!
Re:   Linda Ronstadt, Vocalist, RIP
In response to:
I think they are on the same diet, it must makes you fat AND stupid. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
Pity the fat went to her head. She was once a very talented person.


Name:   M
In response to:
When Bush was a big-time boozer, he got caught driving drunk. Bush said, "I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned by lesson." When he was asked whether he had taken a sobriety test during his arrest, Bush said, "No. I admitted I was wrong." The Real Story: Bush's campaign admitted the day after the above statement that Bush had lied: Bush had been given a sobriety test. Bush did not admit that he was wrong. The pattern becomes clearer: If Bush thinks he can get away with it, he will lie (maybe even cheat and steal for all I know) to cover his @ss.

Message:
Ironic it is, the obsession with the leftist extremist in their accusing Bush of lying; after 8 years of defending the king-of-all-liars (under oath), Bill Clinton, the habitual liar. Funny is it not? Baron is correct, you cannot take these political extremist seriously. They talk out both sides of there ass.


Name:   Kate Smith
To:   Linda

In response to:
Insulting your employer, your audience, yourself, and your country, all to the glory of a fat liar.

Message:
Shrewish strumpet!


Name:   Julie U+U+V
To:   E..T...

Re:   Women in US polical office
In response to:
Same Old Same Old

Message:
When Kerry becomes President of the US, do we judge him a success if the number of his female appointees are 50% of the total number of his appointees or the number of his female appointees are twice as many as the number of former President Clinton's female appointees?

Let me speak plainly, it's NOT a put-down of Senator Clinton to be reduced at the Democratic National Convention to only introducing and praising her cheating husband and gladly accepting her place in America as Bill's understanding-weekly-screw, if, by doing so, Kerry is elected President and alot of women are appointed to national office.

In fact, Senator Clinton is the kind of woman who will smilingly accept second place and let other women walk all over her in order for women to get ahead.

Bill is a lucky man.


Name:   Johnny O'Bois
To:   JUUlie UULie, Contortionist Exraordinaire

Re:   Intimate self-awareness...
In response to:
husband and gladly accepting her place in America as Bill's understanding-weekly-screw, if, by doing so, Kerry is elected President and alot of women are appointed to national office.

Message:
It sure is dark up in there, isn't it, JUUlie?


Name:   June Bug
To:   Individual

Re:   Spanking Sir Elton with a theolodite.
In response to:
Vin Fizz

Message:
You're such a tiny little pissant, Individual; just a nasty, sticky little speck really. Like something a certain Fly might carelessly discard. The hell of it is, you are getting smaller every day, just like the Democratic party.


Name:   Danny American
To:   Individual

In response to:
Bush lied

Message:
Was it under oath? Was he disbarred? Didn't we hear this smear campaign just before he was elected President last time?


Name:   Rammstein
To:   Individual

In response to:
Another (hic) lie

Message:
Is it hypocrisy when you and ET complain about right wingers bringing up Bill and Monica which, happened less than a decade ago, while he was president and happened in the Whitehouse but are willing to bring up a "Bush lie" that occurred in 1976 when he was a private citizen?


Name:   Danny American
To:   The apple does not fall far from the tree...

Message:
AP: Clinton Adviser Probed in Terror Memos

By JOHN SOLOMON

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Clinton's national security adviser, Sandy Berger, is the focus of a Justice Department investigation after removing highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes from a secure reading room during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings, The Associated Press has learned.

Berger's home and office were searched earlier this year by FBI agents armed with warrants after he voluntarily returned documents to the National Archives. However, still missing are some drafts of a sensitive after-action report on the Clinton administration's handling of al-Qaida terror threats during the December 1999 millennium celebration. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040720/D83U6TIO0.html


Name:   Whoozier
To:   J-di

Re:   Sneaky little RAT
In response to:
President Clinton's national security adviser, Sandy Berger,

Message:
Better check that 12-99 time-frame very carefully...


Name:   .
Message:


Name:   /'\
To:   Mary Jo Kopechne

In response to:
glad they labeled the pic. I'd have never guessed it was her. Are you sure it's not Michael Whoore impersonating Linda R?

Message:
GODDAMN!!! Think of the millions of burritos that died making this blimp!!!!! OH THE HUMANITY OF IT ALL!!!


Name:   Must See TV
Message:
http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/


Name:   Spandau Kitty
To:   Lord of Flies

Re:   We have our own special drummer!
In response to:
OOkie! OOkie!

Message:
You make my oatmeal bubble 'n' squeak!


Name:   The Masses
To:   Merci Moi

Re:   Will National Pubic Radio be next?? Oh, the HORROR!
In response to:
The Midnight Hour

Message:
Give us a tale, MOO! Tell us about the John Birch Society takeover of the Boston, Mass. police Dept!


Name:   Mr. Obvious
To:    Julie U+U+V

In response to:
When Kerry becomes President of the US...

Message:
Queen Hillary will never let this happen. She will not wait until 2012 to run.

Wait for the bombshell(s), we still have three months to go.

Still you gotta love Drudge ... http://www.drudgereport.com/kerryv.htm


Name:   Mercy Moi
In response to:
(1) Silicone Soldiers: The new Army recruiting tool is to offer breast implants, as sign-up incentives.

(2) MY PREDICTION is coming true (again) -- I said Bin Laden is NOT in a hot dirty cave, but he is in a 5 star hotel in Zurich, Switzerland.

(3) Bush FLIP-FLOP: Says Iran, not Iraq is the evil perpetrator of 9/11 attack. Just happens we spent over $60 billion to bomb the WRONG nation.

Message:

(1) From official source (MSNBC) I heard that our Army is indeed offering incentives for enlistment of female soldiers, to get a Military Make-over FREE. It has offered silicone breast implants, liposuction & other beauty surgery to hundreds of lady soldiers in the last couple of years.

I wonder if this is also being used by any MALE soldiers. Getting a gender identity switch for FREE can be a powerful incentive, to re-enlist. And in the present shortage of kevlar vests, & vehicle armor, it may be useful to have silicone breasts, to deflect a few of the enemy's bullets. Just bounce right off.

(2) My ESP has been coming in strong once again. I said Osama Bin Laden is NOT in some stinky dirty hot cave in Afghanistan. That is an obvious decoy to make us waste valuable assets & money. He is a very wealthy man, from a billionaire family, & my guess is that he is in a 5 star hotel (with air conditioning & room service) in Zurich, Switzerland. So yesterday on CNN they have his SISTER IN LAW who wrote a book "Inside the Kingdom" about her life married to Osamas brother. How they mistreat women in Saudi Arabia etc -- BUT GET THIS: She lives in SWITZERLAND. Hmmmmm

(3) BUSH does a Major GLOBAL FLIP-FLOP: Now he says the nation who did the 9/11 attacks was NOT IRAQ but it was nasty IRAN. (???) So we just happened to make a $60-100 billion MISTAKE & bomb the wrong country? Tsk Tsk. Gee, maybe the Repubs will REFUND their huge Tax Cuts to PAY for this major MISTAKE, since I don't think the American taxpayers should have to pay for it. WE DID NOT STEAL THE OIL, & have sweet-deal contracts to supply oil rigs & food there. (Like Vice-President Cheney). Now I know why he is the VICE President. Definition of VICE: immorality, wickedness, depravity, defective character, crime.

(4) I will review your criticisms of the Michael Moore Film, (Fahrenheit 9/11) & see what the problem is. I know his fundamental ideas are totally correct.


Name:   John Kedwards
Message:
Vote for me or I'll sue you!


Name:   Hillary Clinton
To:   Sandy Berger

In response to:
*pouf*

Message:
Good job, Sandy!


Name:   2117
To:   Merci Moi

Re:   Sandy Berger
In response to:
2) My ESP has been coming in strong once again. I said Osama Bin Laden is NOT in some stinky dirty hot cave in Afghanistan. That is an obvious decoy to make us waste valuable assets & money

Message:
Where are the documents, MOO? Where are the documents?


Name:   11887734
To:   Merci Moi

Re:   Instructions
In response to:
bin Laden in Zurich

Message:
The appropriate officers will contact you in the immediate future for additional information relating to this matter, Ms. Moi. They will NOT be in uniform. Your full cooperation is expected.


Name:   Selkirk
To:   Merci Moi

Re:   The Circle
In response to:
Hitler

Message:
As you and I know, Hitler is not dead. He has been enjoying a most pleasant life in Argentina at the old Rubberbaron hotel. (fully air-conditioned since 1946) Hitler has recovered his youthful vigour using the same methods that John Kennedy and Walt Disney used sucessfully for so many years. (Why didn't JFK let Jacquie in on the secret? Ask Marilyn!) Granted, Mick Jagger knows more than he is telling about our little community, but of course, he has never really calmed down since Altamont. I don't imagine that we have to worry about him. But what about this fat bastar


Name:   Selkirk
To:   Moi

Re:   Damned Ashcroft!
In response to:
I don't imagine that we have to worry about him. But what about this fat bastar***

Message:
Get off the 'net, Ashcroft, you bumbling old fool!

SHOULD READ: *I don't imagine that we have to worry about him. But what about this fat bastard, BERGER?*


Name:   magpie
Message:
My ESP has been coming in strong once again.

is it telling you you're an idiot? it should be.

I said Osama Bin Laden is NOT in some stinky dirty hot cave in Afghanistan.

he's bush's guest at camp david! isn't it obvious? That is an obvious decoy to make us waste valuable assets & money

rig