Bush calls on Muslim nations to reform Compiled by Our Staff From Dispatches AP, Reuters Wednesday, June 30, 2004 ISTANBUL President George W. Bush issued a call for political and social reform in Muslim nations and mentioned Afghanistan as an example of NATO's support for new democracies on Tuesday, the second and final day of a summit meeting here of the leaders of the alliance. He also returned to a familiar theme, saying that the American-led invasion of Iraq had freed Iraqis to build a democracy that would inspire other nations in the region. The meeting was dominated by requests from both Afghanistan and the new interim government of Iraq for NATO help. (Page 5) On both issues, there were deep disagreements over the proper role of the alliance itself, as opposed to its individual member nations. President Jacques Chirac of France crossed swords with Washington at the meeting, demonstrating that Franco-U.S. relations are at best still lukewarm after last year's rift over Iraq. The French leader denied any personal animosity against Bush, who he said had recently shown "much, much more openness" than at "any time in the past." But he missed no opportunity to needle the United States during the meeting, souring a mood of rediscovered amity more than a year after bitter divisions over the U.S.-led invasion to topple Saddam Hussein. The summit meeting was accompanied by daily street protests, which took place outside the view of the heads of state, who spent most of their time inside a secured zone encompassing the hotel and business center of Istanbul. On Tuesday, however, a small bomb or explosive device blew up on an empty Turkish Airlines plane as workers were cleaning it at the main Istanbul airport. Three workers were injured. The plane had arrived from the Turkish port city of Izmir. Security officials said the cleaners had picked up an object that looked like a wallet and might have contained plastic explosives. Before the summit, several small concussion bombs went off in Istanbul, including one that exploded on a crowded city bus, killing four people. The ink was barely dry on a NATO statement offering Baghdad's interim government training for its security forces when Chirac declared that he was firmly opposed to seeing the alliance's flag fly in Iraq. Chirac also blocked a U.S. push to deploy elements of NATO's fledgling strike force to bolster security during Afghanistan's elections, again confounding the alliance's dominant partner. Chirac criticized Bush in Istanbul for backing Turkey's bid to join the European Union, saying it was none of his business. Chirac also challenged U.S. policy on the Middle East conflict, arguing that the isolation of the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat would hinder the peace process and announcing that his foreign minister would visit Arafat this week. Bush, speaking to about 200 Turkish politicians, army officers, journalists and business leaders, blamed the autocratic rulers in the Arab world and beyond as ing a culture of extremism and resentment of the West. Their suppression of dissent, he said, increases radicalism. "In the last 60 years, many in the West have added to this distrust by excusing tyranny in the region, hoping to purchase stability at the price of liberty," the president added. "But it did not serve the people of the Middle East to betray their hope of freedom and it has not made Western nations more secure to ignore the cycle of dictatorship and extremism." The NATO leaders agreed to augment their 6,500-strong force in Afghanistan and to extend its operations outside the relatively calm capital, Kabul. But there was no consensus on sending extra troops immediately, as requested by President Hamid Karzai. "We have rejected the request on the additional troops before the elections in Afghanistan," said Vecdi Gonul, the defense minister of Turkey, which has the second-largest army in NATO. Turkey has offered to send troops to Afghanistan, however, as part of the expanded NATO operation. In central Istanbul, hundreds of anti-NATO protesters clashed for a second day with riot police, who fought them with tear gas, pepper spray and batons. Bush and other leaders left Turkey on Tuesday from a different terminal at the same airport where the blast occurred. Police said a loud blast near a government building in Ankara on Monday night had been caused by an exploding security camera, not a bomb.

Name:

NuTone

Message:

June 30, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Beware of Certitude By WILLIAM SAFIRE nly two days ago, I wrote with all the confidence of a bigfoot pundit that French President Jacques Chirac, at the NATO summit in Istanbul, would find it in his political interest to paper over past differences with the U.S., Britain and most other European nations about overthrowing Saddam. So much for my certitude. Instead, Chirac stuck his thumb in the alliance's eye: he would not allow any troops under the NATO flag to help the newly sovereign Iraqis defeat the terrorists. Even the training of Iraqi police officers would have to take place outside that country; Chirac slyly suggested Rome. And when President Bush dared to hope that the host nation, Turkey (a NATO nation that did more than France to counter the Soviet threat), would be accepted into the European Union, Chirac lashed out at the American with: "He not only went too far, but he has gone into a domain that is not his own. He has nothing to say on this subject." I was profoundly mistaken about how far into isolation this former ally would go. Evidently Chirac finds political salvation in being openly and contemptuously anti-Bush. He has placed all of his nation's diplomatic chips on the defeat of Bush in November. Chirac takes that gamble because he is afflicted with certitude about this: if freedom fails in Iraq, France's long and profitable protection of Saddam will somehow be justified. But certitude is an uncertain thing. Take, for example, the assumption now taken as fact that Saddam's Iraq was not seeking the raw material for the production of atomic weapons. Remember Bush's claim in last year's State of the Union address about Iraq's negotiating with an African nation for the "yellowcake" refined from uranium ore? When it turned out that this suspicion was based on forged documents, the embarrassed C.I.A. and humiliated White House confessed error. Great and gleeful derision was heaped on Bush for misleading the world on one of the three bases for intervention. If anything in the intelligence world can be a sure thing, the conclusion that Bush had blundered badly was it. The husband of a C.I.A. employee was lionized by the antiwar left for having doubted the fraudulent report; Joseph Wilson is promoting his book about alleged intimidation in the exposure of his wife's job, and the ensuing leak investigation has been making headlines ever since. Comes now a front-page story in The Financial Times by Mark Huband, that international newspaper's security correspondent, headlined "Intelligence Backs Claims Iraq Had Talks on Uranium." Were the documents on which Bush based his charge fake? Yes; though "legal constraints" prevent the F.T. and the Italian magazine Panorama from identifying the suspected forger, the source is reportedly a convicted con man who tried to peddle phony yellowcake papers to several spy services. No wonder everybody belatedly ran from any notion that Iraq sought the uranium product from Niger. But hold that horselaugh: "Embarrassment on fake documents obscured earlier intelligence that Iraq may have been trying to buy uranium," notes an F.T. subheading. Huband writes: "Three intelligence services were aware of possible illicit trade in uranium from Niger between 1999 and 2001. Human intelligence . . . had shown Niger officials referring to possible illicit uranium deals with at least five countries, including Iraq. This intelligence provided clues about plans by Libya and Iran to develop their undeclared nuclear programs." A close reading of the article suggests the original human source was Italian, whose tip was confirmed by British and French electronic intercepts. C.I.A. analysts, who often disdain data not gathered by us, ignored the real thing until they were suckered by the forged documents. Was Iraq, like Iran and Libya, in the secret market for atomic material? This article does not yet prove it, but neither does the falsity of some of the data prove the opposite. A safe bet for thee and me is to dispense with certitude. In the months and years ahead, we are highly likely (almost wrote "sure") to get more evidence from seekers after W.M.D. truth. These range from the new Iraqi government to ousted officials, from the coalition's official team to freelance former spooks and serious journalists. Don't jump to hasty derision. As Mark Twain advised, the problem is not just what we don't know, but what we do know that ain't so.

Name:	Editor
To:	Nu Tome

Message:
Thank you for the masthead. You made an excellent choice.

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX WED JUNE 30, 2004 11:18:25 ET XXXXX VICE PRESIDENT HILLARY; SPECULATION INTENSIFIES IN WASHINGTON Official Washington and the entire press corps will be rocked when Hillary Rodham Clinton is picked as Kerry's VP and a massive love fest will begin! So predicts a top D.C. insider, who spoke to the DRUDGE REPORT on condition he not be named. "All the signs point in her direction," said the insider, one of the most influential and well-placed in the nation's capital. "It is the solution to every Kerry problem."   "There are three issues that this campaign will be decided on -- national security, health care, and the economy, not necessarily in that order." "Kerry believes that no one is better on national security than he is, he served in Vietnam after all, so he has that covered and the suggestion that he needs to strengthen the ticket with someone who has national security credentials is dismissed as foolish." The insider continues: "The Democrats feel like health care is the domestic issue. But how to make it the dominant topic of conversation -- break through war and terrorism? Hillary Clinton. She catapults it out front with her commission. She tried to provide health care before and the Republicans in congress attacked her and her husband and used a bunch of scandals dirty tricks to stop it, we know they are scandals and dirty tricks because the former president book says so. So now you have the number two person on the ticket who is a 'health care expert' and what will Republicans do? Attack on health care pointing to her commission saying that it was government medicine. Her response -- it wasn't, and the Republicans are a bunch of dirty tricksters, "Liars and Crooks," as Kerry calls them, and its been too long and Democrats wont let the Republicans do it to them again. By the way, it puts prescription drugs on the back burner, the Republicans health care ace. You will have a fully engaged national debate on health care from now until the election."   "The Democrats economic plan is to say Bush sucks, it's never enough, we must get back to the Clinton Era when 22 million jobs were created. You can't do much better at making that point then-- Kerry/Clinton 2004. "But what about impeachment and Monica -- wont that overshadow her being picked? It' now been covered in the book. Not only that, but she is a women scorned who has dealt with what so many American women deal with and stuck it out to keep her family together. And Whitewater? It's in the book. Vince Foster? Book. Billing records, White House travel Office? Book, book. All have been covered. All Republican slime tactics. "Why would Kerry make such a public spectacle about trying to get John Mccain, wont whoever you pick be considered a second choice. Not if it is Hillary! "There are differences of opinion about how this election will be won but one school says its all about the base. Republicans are bumping up against the ceiling with support from their base and Democrats are sitting on the floor. This would change that. "Official Washington and national media will fall in love with the idea immediately letting Kerry/Clinton dominate the news through July and up to the Republican convention. She will say she is doing it for the good of the country. I am convinced this is going to happen."   "But what Hillary about having to wait to run for president? If Bush wins then she is the nominee for 2008 because it will be all Kerry's fault. If she wins she is the first woman VP of the United States, which would help her become the first woman president of the U.S. It would be historic in its own right and change the nature of politics in this country, and mark her place in the history books for ever-- a different history than her husbands." Developing...

Name:	Zeke The Gardener
To:	The Beguiled
Re:	Yer wantin' it in yer bottoms, and yer damned well going to get it!

In response to:
Official Washington and the entire press corps will be rocked when Hillary Rodham Clinton is picked as Kerry's VP and a massive love fest will begin!

Message:
It will be the greatest synchronized orgasm in history! Bill Clinton will be utterly left in the lurch. His phone will not ring again for years! Book sales will collapse! SNL will NOT call! He will be reduced to hosting a call-in radio show on a 500 watter in a small rural Arkansas market in order to get any attention at all!

Name:	Nostradamus
Re:	Hillary takes over! Bill sinks like a rock.

In response to:
He will be reduced to hosting a call-in radio show on a 500 watter in a small rural Arkansas market in order to get any attention at all!

Message:
Hello there, Miss Ida! You're on the air with President Clinton on "Excuse me, Mr. President!"! How are you this morning? What can I...

Hello? Hello? Sally?

Yes. You're on the air, Miss Ida. Good morning Miss Ida! Hello! You're on "Excuse me Mr. Pres...

Hello? I want the rest of that turky recipe! Hello? Is this "Sally In The Kitchen?" Sally? Hello?

Uh, Miss Ida, This is Bill Clinton...

Damn phones! Prob'ly made in JAPAN! HELLO! SALLY??? Ive been holding for hours, dammit! Hello???????? SALLY???!! I WANT THE LAST 5 THINGS ON THE TURKEY THING! I'VE GOT IT ALL RIGHT DOWN TO THE QUARTER CUP OF ONION!! HELLO???

Uh, Miss Ida, we seem to be having a technical

(*CLICK*)

Name:	Martha Stewart
To:	All Of You People
Re:	Culls & Canners

In response to:
^%%$&R*&^%&^%)*^*^%*&$&^#^%$!!

Message:
Oh how I hate your P*I*G* faces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Name:

Proud Democrat

Message:
"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake"

"How do you ask for a nations support when the failure of that nation is what your party needs to succeed" --- John F. Kerry

Name:

NuTone

Message:

Why is John Kerry stonewalling the release of his wife's tax returns?

The Wall Street Journal editorializes on the subject this morning.  "Since the Kerry campaign is proposing to raise tax rates on the upper middle class, most people would like to know whether the Kerry household uses tax-avoidance techniques to avoid paying its 'fair share,' the Journal notes.  It also argues that "[i]t would be interesting to know whether she has given money to the Democratic 527 groups that pioneered a way around the campaign finance laws to support Mr. Kerry's campaign." 

I just want to know if she made more money from Halliburton than Cheney, if she bailed out of Enron before its collapse, or if she dabbles in the reverse repurchase instruments that bankrupted Orange County, California a few years back.  Is she in partnership with George Soros and does she shelter income off-shore.  Heavily invested in gaming, liquor, or perhaps even the deadly tobacco companies?

John Kerry is stonewalling because his fortune in benefiting from his wife's fortune surely contains the facts of a hundred hypocrisies.  The media's indifference to this cover-up is number 101.

The Washington Post has written up the Bush-Cheney '04's outreach to church-goers, and the hand-wringing on the left is predictable.  "I think it is sinful of them to encourage pastors and churches to engage in partisan political activity and run the risk of losing their tax-exempt status," orates Steve Rosenthal, ceo of "America Coming Together."

The Post missed the irony here: America Coming Together was recently in the news for its voter-registration efforts, which employed felons including sex offenders, to go door-to-door and obtain personal information on potential voters.  The way-left group promised to stop sending criminals to your door.  Now it is opining on the evils of registering church-goers, and lying in the process by suggesting voter registration drives in any way threaten tax-exempt status.  Yeah, I'll worry what ACT has to say on the ethics of turning out the religious vote.

John Kerry sent former Air Force Chief of Staff Tony McPeak out to blast the Pentagon's call up of 5,600 members of the Individual Ready Reserve.  There are more than 110,000 former soldiers in the IRR, and the idea that tapping it is proof of "arrogant mismanagement and poor planning at the civilian level" is more proof that a vote for Kerry is a vote to cut-and-run in the war on terror, first in Iraq and then everywhere else.  Kerry's criticism means he wouldn't use the IRR in the war, which has to mean he doesn't intend to fight it using all the tools available to the military.  (20,000 soldiers were drawn from the IRR during the Gulf War.)  John Kerry wants to be taken seriously as competent to defend the United States, but his campaign's every move telegraphs his intention to pursue head-in-the-sand isolationism and withdrawal from the front line of the war on terror.

The Washington Times' Rowan Scarborough reports on Zarqawi's intention to kidnap a female soldier for use in horrifying the American public.  Zarqawi knows --all the terrorists know-- that the only way they can win is by breaking the will of the American people to fight the battles in Iraq, Afghanistan, and across the globe.  President Bush knows the battle for American resolve is being fought daily, but Kerry seems oblivious to this.  Attacking every detail of the war management for political advantage weakens that resolve and may even inspire the enemy in new efforts to divide the American public.  It would be refreshing to hear the Kerry camp denounce the terrorists at least as often as they denounce the Pentagon.

Oh, Newsweek does a dance on Michael Moore.  It's a big dance floor, and its a very effective dance.  As written yesterday, when you hear someone praising F911 in whole or part, you have proof positive that either a fool or a rogue has come close.  The former cannot recognize malicious lies; the latter doesn't care provided they serve his ends.

Finally, the details are emerging on suspects arrested in the Twin Cities area, at least one of whom trained in an al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.  John Kerry doesn't like the Patriot Act.  Perhaps some reporter should ask him if suspects like these are best left alone? 

John Kerry: Against fighting the war abroad with all available tools.  Against fighting the war at home with all available tools.  Consistently for retreat, from 1971 forward.

Name:

Frida

Message:

'It Started With Me':

Paula Jones Reacts to Memoir;

Talks About 'Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy'...

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Bush, speaking to about 200 Turkish politicians, army officers, journalists and business leaders, blamed the autocratic rulers in the Arab world and beyond as ing a culture of extremism and resentment of the West.

Message:
Why doesn't Bush tell it like it is: they are a bunch of right wing, religious flakes. Does this conflict in values come down to right wing, Christian religious flakes versus right wing, Islamic religious flakes?

Name:	Son of an Oil-Man
To:	forum

In response to:
Why doesn't Bush tell it like it is: they are a bunch of right wing, religious flakes. Does this conflict in values come down to right wing, Christian religious flakes versus right wing, Islamic religious flakes?

Message:
This person “Individual” is obviously attempting to get the goat of all you right-wingers out there. He/She is repeating the same thing as yesterday and the day before that and the day before that, etc.

This person wants not to debate with you. Rather, this person seeks to anger you. This person uses passive-aggressive techniques to get you to insult him. Then, this person can claim to be a victim.

He/She represents the democrat version of the “New Tone”

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
Re:	It looks like my "imposter" is back

In response to:
YOU GO GIRL! VICE PRESIDENT HILLARY; SPECULATION INTENSIFIES IN WASHINGTON

Message: Hillary couldn't sell an autographed tee-shirt on E-Bay...How's she gonna sell her ideas to the American public?

Message:
I haven't posted on this board since Monday. Let me just say this....

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON FOR VICE-PRESIDENT OR PRESIDENT!!

Name:

Lemme respond

Message:
HEY HILLARY SHILL, WHADDYA GONNA DO WITH ALL THOSE BUTT-UGLY TEE-SHIRTS????

Name:	Milan
Re:	The betrayal of liberalism (w/links)

Message:
LIBERALISM THEN AND NOW

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THEN:

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"Mahomet was an imposter, since he completely abolishes the freedom which is granted by that universal religion revealed by the natural and prophetic light, and which I have shown ought to be fully granted."

Benedictus de Spinoza (1632-1677) "Letter 49: Spinoza to Isaac Orobio" (1671) http://home.earthlink.net/~tneff/let49.htm#TOP

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NOW:

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"And what was God thinking . . . when the Angel Gabriel was sent by God to reveal the Law to Moses? And what was God thinking . . . when the Angel Gabriel was sent by God to reveal the sacred Quran to the prophet Muhammad?"

John Bryson Chane, "What were you thinking of God?" Sermon preached at Washington National Cathedral (12/25/03) http://www.edow.org/news/media/releases/2003/jbc_xmassermon.html

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"I usually call myself these days a freelance monotheist. I draw nourishment from all three of the religions of Abraham… And I can not see in essence any one of these three faiths as superior to any of the others."

Karen Armstrong, "Now with Bill Moyers" (3/1/02) http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_armstrong.html

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"(The) panreligious perspective may prove especially important where our global civilization's responsibility for the earth is concerned."

Al Gore, "Earth in the Balance - Ecology and the Human Spirit" (1992) http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Gore7-99.html

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THEN:

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"It is a misfortune for human nature when a religion is granted by a conquerer. The Mahometan religion, which refers only to the sword, is more likely to motivate those with the same destructive spirit that founded it."

Montesqieu (1689-1755) "The Spirit of Laws: Book XXIV, Chapter IV" (1748) http://www.constitution.org/cm/sol_24.htm#004

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NOW:

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"In the aftermath of the cold war, the fall of the Soviet Union and the discrediting of communism have created a "threat vacuum" that has given rise to a search for new enemies. For some Americans the enemy …is (the) Islamic world… Islam and Muslim culture are portrayed as somehow peculiarly and inherently expansionist and prone to violence and warfare."

John Esposito, "Political Islam: Beyond the Green Menace," Current History (1/94) http://www.arches.uga.edu/~godlas/espo.html

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"The notion that Islam 'imposes itself by force and violence and has always been against Christianity' -- that is not true at all."

Karen Armstrong, "Former nun's concern grows after Madrid," Chicago Tribune (4/24/04) http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001712.php

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"(Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman is) dedicated to a free Egypt…I knew that there was a possibility that the government would cut me off from him for releasing this statement. But he told me he wanted this statement to get out to his people."

Lynne Stewart, "The Terrorist's Lawyer," 60 Minutes (9/21/03) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/02/60minutes/main507885.shtml

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THEN:

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"Mohammed had not only religious doctrines descend from Heaven and placed in the Koran, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and scientific theories. The Gospels in contrast, speak only of the general relations of men to God and among themselves. Outside of that they teach nothing and oblige nothing to be believed. That alone, among a thousand other reasons, is enough to show that the first of these two religions cannot dominate for long in enlightened and democratic times, whereas the second is destined to reign in these centuries as in all others."

Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859) "Democracy in America: Volume II, Chapter V" (1840) http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/ch1_05.htm

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NOW:

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"Neither Islam nor its culture is the major obstacle to political modernity."

Robin Wright, "Islam and liberal democracy: Two visions of reformation," Journal of Democracy 7.2, (1996) http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/rwright.htm

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"The heart of Islam beats with the heart of the American people."

Karen Armstrong, "Interview," Religion and Ethics Newsweekly, Episode 602 (9/13/02) http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week602/armstrong.html

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"The theoretical undertaking of synthesizing Islam and democracy is promising. …Muslims and non-Muslims alike should welcome the intellectual efforts, and yes, dreams, of Islamic democrats. …their aspirations represent the way of the future. …Islamic democrats are the best hope for the future of the Muslim world—and they deserve our admiration and our support."

Noah Feldman, "The Best Hope," Boston Review (4-5/03) http://www.bostonreview.net/BR28.2/feldman.html

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THEN:

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"To pretend that Christianity was intended to stereotype existing forms of government and society, and protect them against change, is to reduce it to the level of Islamism or of Brahminism. It is precisely because Christianity has not done this, that it has been the religion of the progressive portion of mankind, and Islamism, Brahminism, etc. have been those of the stationary portions; or rather (for there is no such thing as a really stationary society) of the declining portions. There have been abundance of people, in all ages of Christianity, who tried to make it something of the same kind; to convert us into a sort of Christian Mussulmans, with the Bible for a Koran, prohibiting all improvement: and great has been their power, and many have had to sacrifice their lives in resisting them. But they have been resisted, and the resistance has made us what we are, and will yet make us what we are to be."

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) "The Subjection of Women: Chapter II" (1869) http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/m/m645s/chapter2.html

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NOW:

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"…ignorant and self-deceiving Arab intellectuals …have seen in the atrocities of 9/11 a sign that the Arab and Islamic worlds are somehow more diseased and more dysfunctional than any other, and that terrorism is a sign of a wider distortion that has occurred in any other culture."

Edward Said, "The meaning of Rachel Corrie," Counterpunch (6/23/03) http://www.counterpunch.org/said06232003.html

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"People who talk about the need for Islam to have a reformation, ‘as we did’ in the 16th century, show a great ignorance of Islam and the Protestant Reformation. People who think there was something special about the Reformation are ignorant about world history."

Karen Armstrong, "Interview," Religion and Ethics Newsweekly, Episode 602 (9/13/02) http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week602/armstrong.html

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"… (the Constitution) which although a secular document reflecting the wealthy, white, slaveholding, Anglophilic men who wrote it, is treated with the reverence accorded to scripture by any good fundamentalist anywhere."

Edward Said, "American elections: System or farce?" Al-Ahram (12/00) http://www.mafhoum.com/press/amelect.htm

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THEN:

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"The matrimonial condition is not the same in reality in Mahometan and Christian countries. Here, the woman contracts with her husband nearly upon a principle of equality; there, marriage is impressed with a character of servitude: here, the woman preserves her liberty; there, at least among the more opulent, she is kept in a state of seclusion."

Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) "Of the Influence of Time and Place in Matters of Legislation: Chapter I" (1843) http://www.la.utexas.edu/research/poltheory/bentham/timeplace/timeplace.c01.html

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NOW:

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"There is no difference between Islam and human rights."

Shirin Ebadi, "Iranian rights activist wins Nobel Nobel" CNN (10/10/03) http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/10/10/nobel.peace/

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"Mohammed gave women rights of inheritance and divorce, that we wouldn’t have in the West until the 19th Century."

Karen Armstrong, Now with Bill Moyers (4/9/04) http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript315_full.html

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"We will also be working against religious fundamentalism and its attack on women everywhere, including by Christian fundamentalist groups in the United States."

Margaret Owen, "Women to fight ‘fundamentalism’," Reuters (4/8/04) http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,266549-1-9,00.html

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"…And part of the way that they are able to debunk Islam is to use over and over and over the women issue. So unless they intend to make equal pay for women and not quibble over Title Nine and all the other things they do in this country, I find that it's sort of the pot calling the kettle black."

Lynne Stewart,  "Lynne Stewart Interview" World War 3 Report, issue 40 (6/30/02) http://www.worldwar3report.com/40.html

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THEN:

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"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) "The Contest in America" (1862) http://www.gutenberg.net/etext04/conam10h.htm

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NOW:

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"War is always an acknowledgment of failure."

Dominique de Villepin, "Villepin: 'War is acknowledgment of failure'" CNN (3/9/03) http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/07/villepin.transcript/

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"It is clear that using force is not the answer to resolving the conflict with terrorists."

Romano Prodi, "The Spanish response," Washington Post (3/16/04) http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A61727-2004Mar15?language=printer

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"At the same time, war (against the Taliban) would reinforce the worst elements in our own society-- the flag-wavers and bigots and militarists."

Katha Pollitt, "Put out no flags," The Nation (9/20/01) http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011008&s=pollitt

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"A truce must be called with radical Islam."

Patrick Seale, "Patrick Seale: Painful stings are unavoidable when a hornet's nest is stirred" Gulf News (3/19/04) http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/opinion.asp?ArticleID=114783

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THEN:

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"… there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States..."

George Orwell (1903-1950) "Notes on nationalism" (1945) http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html

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NOW:

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"…if the word "cowardly" is to be used, it might be more aptly applied to those who kill from beyond the range of retaliation, high in the sky, than to those willing to die themselves in order to kill others."

Susan Sontag, "The talk of the town," The New Yorker (9/24/01) http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?010924ta_talk_wtc

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"The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military. I personally would like to see a million Mogadishus."

Nicholas de Genova, "Professors Condemn War in Iraq At Teach-in," Columbia Spectator (3/27/03) http://www.columbiaspectator.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/05/03/4095f1f5eeacc?in_archive=1

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"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not ‘insurgents’ or ‘terrorists’ or ‘The Enemy.’ They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow –and they will win"

Michael Moore, "Heads Up…from Michael Moore" (4/14/04) http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2004-04-14

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ANY QUESTIONS?

Name:

Individual

In response to:
"Mahomet was an imposter, since he completely abolishes the freedom which is granted by that universal religion revealed by the natural and prophetic light, and which I have shown ought to be fully granted."

Message:
Holy Monads. Monadology strikes again.

Name:

Individual

Message:
Islam: pray five times a day. Is this true? Why in God's name would a God require someone to pray five times a day?

Name:

Individual

In response to:
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not ‘insurgents’ or ‘terrorists’ or ‘The Enemy.’ They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow –and they will win"

Message:
Wrong. The Minutemen of Iraq don't exist. The people of Iraq allowed Saddam to control them for decades. No Minutemen there.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
"The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military. I personally would like to see a million Mogadishus."

Message:
His pen name is de Genova. His real name is Osama bin Laden.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
"…if the word "cowardly" is to be used, it might be more aptly applied to those who kill from beyond the range of retaliation, high in the sky, than to those willing to die themselves in order to kill others."

Message:
"...those whilling to die themselves in order to kill others" are religious flakes and don't know better. Far from brave, these poor souls think that they will receive rewards in some place beyond this earth. Selfish would be a better word for them.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
"At the same time, war (against the Taliban) would reinforce the worst elements in our own society-- the flag-wavers and bigots and militarists."

Message:
Wrong. It would go a long way toward reducing the threat of terrorism. They protected those that hit us. We hit them back--a lot harder.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Lemme respond

In response to:
HEY HILLARY SHILL, WHADDYA GONNA DO WITH ALL THOSE BUTT-UGLY TEE-SHIRTS????

Message:
Don't ask me, ask the people who bought them!!

These T-Shirts are selling!!! Want one?

Name:

Individual

In response to:
"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

Message:
Right on--for the most part.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
"We will also be working against religious fundamentalism and its attack on women everywhere, including by Christian fundamentalist groups in the United States."

Message:
Yes. When religious flakes attack women, they should be back-attacked, so to say.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
"…ignorant and self-deceiving Arab intellectuals …have seen in the atrocities of 9/11 a sign that the Arab and Islamic worlds are somehow more diseased and more dysfunctional than any other, and that terrorism is a sign of a wider distortion that has occurred in any other culture."

Message:
Religious flakes abound. However, Islamic flakes think that they will be rewarded in the after-life if they target innocent men, women, and children for suicide bombing. Flakery than most.

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

Message:
I hope Sen. John Kerry makes a decision as early as Tuesday and I hope it's Hillary for VP!

Name:	Bruce
To:	Scotty
Re:	Here is something you should buy and enjoy (if you know what I mean....)

Message:

Guys Gone Wild --- 'BABY TAKE IT OFF'
By FARRAH WEINSTEIN

Producer Misty Nicole convinced guys to take their clothes off for the new DVD "Guys Gone Wild." NYP file photo

Name:	Jacques Jackanapes
To:	Bullhorny Anencephalic Parrot Individual
Re:	The World According to Individual, who SUCKS.

In response to:
Islam: pray five times a day. Is this true? Why in God's name would a God require someone to pray five times a day?

(Maybe to give you a few moments to breathe IN...

Message:
...or at least to get you the hell off the internet for a few minutes a day)

PS: "Is this true?" WHAT A STUPID FUKKIN' QUESTION FROM SOMEONE WHO POSES AS AN AUTHORITY ON RELIGION AND RELIGIOUS, INCLUDING ISLAM!!

Name:	Jacques Z. Jackanapes
To:	Cretinous Parrot

In response to:
RELIGIOUS,

Message:
...PEOPLE, ...

Name:	Oh My G0D
To:	Individueal

In response to:
"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

Message:

"Right on--for the most part." --- Individual Pissant Pastors Assistant

Message:
"I actually vote for the $87,000,000,000.00 before I voted against it" --- Your new G0D, John F. Kerry

You are a JOKE

Name:	Motobecaine
To:	HILLARY HONKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re:	A dutiful little tool!

In response to:
I hope Sen. John Kerry makes a decision as early as Tuesday and I hope it's Hillary for VP! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
Maybe Her Majesty can tell those starry-eyed Lefto-flakes at F.O.H.dotglop how to fix their lousey little hockshop where it won't screw up this website when you comandeer it to give them free promotion on ET's dime!

Name:	Myron Mankins, Geronimo's Jewish Horse
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re:	HILLARY'S THE ONE! THE ONLY ONE!! SHE IS OUR STRONG QUEEN!!!

In response to:
I hope Sen. John Kerry makes a decision as early as Tuesday and I hope it's Hillary for VP!

Message:
QUICK! Call up MERCI MOO and get her to wake up Nostradamnus and tell him to speak to Kerry IN A VOICE LIKE THUNDER and to tell Kerry to move his skinny old butt over and let HILLARY in there RIGHT NOW!!!

HILLARY NOW! WE DON'T NEED NO RUNNING MATE!! TWENTY-O-EIGHT IS TOO DAMNED LATE!!!!!! FORGET GORE!!!!!!!! FLAME McCAIN!! HILLARY 04!!!!!!! 08 IS TOO LATE!!!!

Name:	Nudie of Hollywood
To:	gUYS gONE nEKKID
Re:	Be careful what you ax for!

In response to:
"I really like it," she said. "Why not let us take a peek at what the men have under their clothes? They're working out to make their bodies hard, so why not? Girls, boys, everyone should go wild...

Message:
That's a hell of a thing to say in a world inhabited by the likes of Michael MOore!

Name:	Allah
To:	Individual

In response to:
Islam: pray five times a day. Is this true? Why in God's name would a God require someone to pray five times a day?

Message:
None of your business.

Name:

magpie

In response to:
yeah the dems love the working guy! this is what they will do for you too!

Message:
As John Kerry touts Democrat support for the middle class, his party is slamming the very middle class he claims to be helping.

Take cab drivers, for example. They represent hard working Americans, working long hours to provide for their families. When the Democratic Convention comes to Boston next month, the Democrats are insisting that Cabbies accept a flat rate of $8.00 per rider, way below the standard fare!

The Democrats, no stranger to making promises they cannot keep, have promised each delegate a "free" ride to the convention from the airport. To stay within their "budget," cab drivers are expected to take the flat rate. Cabbies may do okay if they fit three delegates in for each trip, but with baggage, only two riders may fit.

Why should the Democrats place such a burden on the very people they claim to support? Some Cabbies plan to boycott the airport rather then take a possible loss on every trip.

Why should the Democrats, or any government agency, interfere with what a buyer and seller agree is a fair price? The free market should allow cab drivers to set whatever rate they believe is appropriate.

When you watch the Democratic Convention this year and hear how Kerry and his party want to help the "little guy" and middle class, remember that hundreds of hard working Cabbies had their pockets picked by these same politicians.

You will not hear about the Cabbies on the news networks, but actions speak louder than words.

Name:	Editor
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER

Message:
YOU GO GIRL!!!

GIVE 'EM HELL!!!

Thank you for your support. I wish there were more like you.

Name:	Molly Ratchet
To:	ET
Re:	Hillary will make people who earn their living SCREAM!

In response to:
YOU GO GIRL!!! GIVE 'EM HELL!!!

Message:
Stamp your little red slippers and SCREAM AND SCREAM AND SCREAM!!!

Name:

magpie

In response to:
YOU GO GIRL!!! GIVE 'EM HELL!!!

Message:
you can count on it. hell it will be!!!!!

Name:	Reality
To:	ET, et al

In response to:
Hillary On Clouds Of Glory

Message:
Hillary can't save the Democrat party. She, like Kerry, is a particularly notable part of the many problems with the Democrat party.

The Media flacks love her, even more than they love the fringe-Leftist, Kerry, and radical extremist Socialistic crackpots adore her, as do many among their ignorant, predatory, and resentful clientele. Radical extremist Socialistic crackpots will indeed shower her with money and adulation when she appears to throw them great chunks of red meat. But that won't get her into the White House.

Most of America doesn't care for either Hillary or her agenda. Most Americans, both individuals and families, have agendas of their own and faith in their ability to realize them, and they intend to retain the freedom to pursue their agendas.

Name:	Hounslow
To:	ET
Re:	'Botic Tool

In response to:
I wish there were more like you

Message:
In my opinion, we are all fortunate that HILLARY SUPPORTER is probably unique!

Name:	Jose Jimenez
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER!!
Re:	It's a MIRACLE!

In response to:
These T-Shirts are selling!!! Want one?

Message:
Don't need one, thanx. Hillary's visage appears regularly upon a burrito-size flour tortilla which I now preserve in my garage. She does not speak, at least not audibly, but many pilgrims swear that they commune with her by peering fixedly into the image's eyes. Some assert that their chronic ailments are relieved by emanations fron the penumbra of the tortilla.

Hillary manifested herself upon the tortilla back during the height of The War On The Clintons, and her visitations have been fairly regular ever since.

I have framed the tortilla in a baroque, richly gilded frame and placed it on my garage wall. A small kneeling rail and copies of The Book have been placed before it, along with several finger-bowls of Evian. (The Pinto stays outside now)

Pilgrims come from all over to see the this most marvelous tortilla. We have to keep it in the garage because the RADIANCE emanating from it makes sleep impossible, and it also frightens the dachshund horribly!

Name:	observer
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER

Message:
You are a breath of fresh air from the hateful liberal-haters, kerry-haters, hillary-haters and all things left. They have run every liberal female off this forum except you. Because you are decent and refreshing we take pleasure in seeing you here every day driving the right-wingers into a raging hatred because you are a very nice person with a good soul. They can't stand people like you and Hillary.

Name:	Promo slick
To:	Ubzuggah
Re:	Magnificent antique suspension bridge and historic treasure, CHEAP!

In response to:
You are a breath of fresh air from the hateful liberal-haters, kerry-haters, hillary-haters and all things left. They have run every liberal female off this forum except you. Because you are decent and refreshing we take pleasure in seeing you here every day driving the right-wingers into a raging hatred because you are a very nice person with a good soul. They can't stand people like you and Hillary

Message:
These brideges are selling like hotcakes! Want one??

Name:	Creek Council
To:	Boo Hoo

In response to:
. They have run every liberal female off this forum except you.

Message:
Nonsense! It is impossible to "run" anyone off this board!

Name:	Teacher317
To:	Hillary Supporter
Re:	Hillary

Message:
June 29, 2004: "Many of you are well enough off that ... the tax cuts may have helped you," Sen. Clinton said. "We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Odd that she does not include herself and her record book advances in those who are "well enough off". Once again, she insists that government, that paragon of waste, corruption, and coercive force, knows far better how to put money that we earned to "good" use. She has no faith in America or Americans, but plenty in government, an entity that has yet to prove it is more of a problem-solver than a problem-maker.

Name:	Bill Clinton
To:	Teacher317
Re:	We're going to take it away from you.

In response to:
Hill'ry

Message:
She's absolutely right on this one. After all, you people might not spend it right!

Name:	Teacher317
To:	EDITOR
Re:	wishes

In response to:
YOU GO GIRL!!! GIVE 'EM HELL!!! Thank you for your support. I wish there were more like you.

Message:
Doesn't it say something that there AREN'T?

Name:	Jazz Babies of 1927
To:	Beguiled
Re:	Honker

In response to:
Because you are decent and refreshing

Message:
She's as decent and refreshing as a repeat call from a shrill and persistent telemarketer stridently pushing a tinhorn scam!

Name:	HELP PLEASE!!
To:	magpie & all hard right-wingers
Re:	no brain leftist anti-american patchuli-oil waering freaks

In response to:
no bulls h i t

Message:
Please help. These mindless leftwing fools neek to be spanked and you are the ones to do it. (no registration needed) Go to:

http://www.blowback.org/site.html and click on "Talk" to enter the discussion forum. These morons are proud A.N.S.W.E.R. & MoveOn.org fanatics. Reality is not their reality.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Observer

In response to:
You are a breath of fresh air from the hateful liberal-haters, kerry-haters, hillary-haters and all things left. They have run every liberal female off this forum except you. Because you are decent and refreshing we take pleasure in seeing you here every day driving the right-wingers into a raging hatred because you are a very nice person with a good soul. They can't stand people like you and Hillary.

Message:
Thank you for that message, Observer!

They are so easy, actually too easy, to piss off. Their childish insults don't bother me at all. How can they judge me when they don't know me at all (other than knowing I'm a liberal). How can I even accept an insult directed at words on a screen? It's moronic and childish for them to swing into vicious attacks over "typed words on a screen". I don't really know who the hell they even are, nor do I care; but as far as I'm concerned, they are probably the kind of people that are just going through life being miserable, disgruntled and have chips-on-their-shoulders. Damn, life must be bad. Why even get the hell outta bed in the morning?

Name:	Question
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
Re:	Why even get the hell outta bed in the morning?

Message:
What the hell is an outta? And why get a hell bed in the morning? Why not get one in the afternoon? or the evening? Are you a registered voter?

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
Re:	More typed words that are sure to piss some people off

Message:
"WARNING: THE FOLLOWING MAY PISS-OFF SOME OF THOSE THAT ARE, SHOULD WE SAY, NOT WRAPPED TOO TIGHT"!!

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT OR VICE PRESIDENT!

Name:	Eochaidh MacDhalaigh OghaChruithne
To:	ET
Re:	Help Needed

In response to:
Your ad in this forum for help

Message:
I love you ET and will be your best employee, ever.

Please contact me at: Bat Gurl
Montei
The Go-shin Yama Ju-jutsu and Computer Club (G.J.C)
Suite 31, The Royal Manor Condominium
2021 SW Main Street
Portland, OR 97205-1543
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

****Some of my skills****

Telephone number: 503-229-1822

Name:	Lunatic Watch
To:	Eochaidh MacDhalaigh OghaChruithne

Message:
You have got to be kidding......................

You are nothing less than an extremely biased fringe wack-job

You could not possibly have anything to worth a darn to offer

Name:

magpie

Message:
They are so easy, actually too easy, to piss off.

don't screw with the VRWC missy.

Their childish insults don't bother me at all.

yeah right.

How can they judge me when they don't know me at all (other than knowing I'm a liberal).

i'll tell you how. your little puppy dog panting cult of personality moronic devotion to a hypocrite and scam artist. and your writings on this forum. that's how. consider yourself judged.

How can I even accept an insult directed at words on a screen?

we don;t expect you to. you're a wuss.

It's moronic and childish for them to swing into vicious attacks over "typed words on a screen".

common sense observations about what a hypocrite and scam artist your hero is is hardly a vicious attack. i now in you-the editors-and hillarys chick/victim obsessed crowd may think it is but it isn't. grow up please. and tell nancy pelosi too.

I don't really know who the hell they even are, nor do I care; but as far as I'm concerned, they are probably the kind of people that are just going through life being miserable, disgruntled and have chips-on-their-shoulders.

you are describing hillary to a tee.

Damn, life must be bad. Why even get the hell outta bed in the morning?

to work and pay taxes for you and the recepient crowd you covet.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Lunatic watch

In response to:
You have got to be kidding...................... You are nothing less than an extremely biased fringe wack-job You could not possibly have anything to worth a darn to offer

Message:
I don't know what's worse, the posting by Eochaidh MacDhalaigh OghaChruithne or the fact that you even responded to it.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Magpie

Message:
Like I said before, don't even waste your time because all your crap is vicious, childish hateful remarks!!

don't screw with the VRWC missy."

Oh my, what's the big bad pathetic VRWC gonna do? (to: the moniker question, do you know what "gonna" means?)

We'll see who's laughing in the end!!

Name:

magpie

In response to:
We'll see who's laughing in the end!!

Message:
hillary is going to give you hell which exactly what you wish and deserve.

Name:	PLEASE HELP!
To:	magpie

Message:
Please help ~~~ www.blowback.org

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	magpie

In response to:
common sense observations about what a hypocrite and scam artist your hero is is hardly a vicious attack. i now in you-the editors-and hillarys chick/victim obsessed crowd may think it is but it isn't. grow up please. and tell nancy pelosi too.

Message:
And you people worship the VRWC god, who or what ever that may be!

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	magpie

Message:
You must be really having a bad day because you seem to have pent-up anger today, more so than usual. Let me guess, you were limited to one case of beer today, the pick-up won't start, the rifle is out of bullets, or the dog is refusing to go hunting? Which is it?

Name:

NuTone

Message:

Here's the transcript of Saddam in the dock. Somebody doesn't quite get the picture.  (Hat tip to RealClearPolitics.)

Name:

magpie

Message:
You must be really having a bad day because you seem to have pent-up anger today, more so than usual.

maybe. you on the other hand i believe is in about the seventh grade-so how hard can that be?

Let me guess, you were limited to one case of beer today, the pick-up won't start, the rifle is out of bullets, or the dog is refusing to go hunting? Which is it? /b>

no. my automatic chlorine generator in my pool is acting up. i've cleaned the elements with diluted muriatic acid and a brush and the salt content is 2900ppm but it's still not generating enough chlorine.

BTW-you and hillary deserve each other.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	PLEASE HELP!!

In response to:
Please help. These mindless leftwing fools neek to be spanked and you are the ones to do it. (no registration needed) Go to:

http://www.blowback.org/site.html and click on "Talk" to enter the discussion forum. These morons are proud A.N.S.W.E.R. & MoveOn.org fanatics. Reality is not their reality.

Message:
What a real rocket scientist we have here. (/sarcasm) You want to get away from certain posters on here and yet you publicly advertise another board where there is no need to register. Really makes sense....LMAO! Why don't you hand deliver invitations to us lefties?

Don't worry, I'm not going over to your "publicly announced private board". Unlike you, I have a life and I don't feel the need to harass people just for the sake of it!

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Magpie

In response to:
You must be really having a bad day because you seem to have pent-up anger today, more so than usual. maybe. you on the other hand i believe is in about the seventh grade-so how hard can that be? Let me guess, you were limited to one case of beer today, the pick-up won't start, the rifle is out of bullets, or the dog is refusing to go hunting? Which is it? /b> no. my automatic chlorine generator in my pool is acting up. i've cleaned the elements with diluted muriatic acid and a brush and the salt content is 2900ppm but it's still not generating enough chlorine. BTW-you and hillary d ...

Message:
Hyper today, aren't we! Try cutting back on the caffeine a little. Might help.

Oh yeah, and the beer too!

Name:	PLEASE HELP
To:	magpie

Message:
Please magpie!! No Bullshit (f-you HILLARY SUPPORTER)

Name:	.
To:	.
Re:	.

In response to:
.

Message:
.

Name:

.

Message:
.

.

.

.

.

,

Name:

.

Message:
.

.

.

.

Name:	PLEASE HELP!
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
What a real rocket scientist we have here. (/sarcasm) You want to get away from certain posters on here and yet you publicly advertise another board where there is no need to register. Really makes sense....LMAO! Why don't you hand deliver invitations to us lefties?

Message:
BTW

What the hell are you talking about?

"...You want to get away from certain posters on here and yet..."

Who said anything like this? Me? No..... The voices in your head? Maybe.....

You are not that nice, contrary to what "observer" pointed out missy.

Name:	To Hell With Communist Websites
To:	Hippies Screwed Up The Forum Again.
Re:	Fix The Damned Forum O'Cruithne!!!!!!!

In response to:
Thank you for that message, Observer! They are so easy, actually too easy, to piss off. Their childish insults don't bother me at all. How can they judge me when they don't know me at all (other than knowing I'm a liberal). How can I even accept an insult directed at words on a screen? It's moronic and childish for them to swing into vicious attacks over "typed words on a screen". I don't really know who the hell they even are, nor do I care; but as far as I'm concerned, they are probably the kind of people that are just going through life being miserable, disgruntled and have chips-on-thei ...

Message:
This is hilarious! Was there ever such a little lost lambkin as Hillary Supporter!!!!? She really must be a VRWC parody of a ditzy Leftist Hillaryite Vestal Virgin tool. PS: The "Hell" is one of those wrinkley Chinese dogs, isn't it? I'll bet Merci MOO has a dozen of those horrors! Why NOT get it out of bed in the morning? Why allow the monster into your bed in the first place?? Oh, GOROO!

Name:	Guns & Knives!!
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER!!!!!!!!!

In response to:
You must be really having a bad day because you seem to have pent-up anger today, more so than usual. maybe. you on the other hand i believe is in about the seventh grade-so how hard can that be?

Message:
Please tell me you are kidding! Are you high?

Name:	khobar
To:	Chica
Re:	repost as I am really interested in your response

Message:

Chica: Sarin & mustard gas have been found.

khobar: Kindly provide a link to the Pentagon's official announcement that either of the shells in question had been found by a US laboratory to have contained banned chemical weapons. How would this differ from a lame response?

Chica: So you get all your info from the Pentagon? And the rest of the liberal news sources quoting the Pentagon should not be trusted? Pretend it didn't happen. That's very novel of you. I expect another denial anytime now.

We heard that units in the field had found shells that they thought contained traces of mustard gas and sarin. These shells were sent to the US to be tested by military laboratories. Absolutely no further news of them has been heard.

I don't suppose you wonder why that might be. I don't suppose you connect that to all the other stories we heard from Judith Miller and others about WMDs being discovered shortly after the fall of Baghdad.

Name:	khobar
To:	Chica

Message:

Chica: The US Abu Ghraib incidents did not show rape or murder.

khobar: Actually, they did. Sex with a 12-year-old prisoner is rape. And suspicious deaths in custody are likely to be homicides, by negligence at least, like the deaths by beating at Bagram.

Chica: Two can play this game. Kindly provide a link to the Pentagon's official announcement that at Abu Ghraib a US military person had sex with a minor prisoner. Oh, yeah the alleged rape must be certified by a US laboratory..

I regret that the Pentagon is refusing to comment on these serious allegations, just as they refused to release any of Taguba's report until the photos were published. I hope that these allegations will be investigated openly, so that the guilt or innocence of the servicemen involved can be established.

Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, detainee No. 151108, told investigators that when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib last year, he was forced to strip, put on a hood and wear rose-colored panties with flowers on them. "Most of the days I was wearing nothing else," he said in his statement.

Hilas also said he witnessed an Army translator having sex with a boy at the prison. He said the boy was between 15 and 18 years old. Someone hung sheets to block the view, but Hilas said he heard the boy's screams and climbed a door to get a better look. Hilas said he watched the assault and told investigators that it was documented by a female soldier taking pictures....

.....Hilas also said he watched as Graner and others sodomized a detainee with a phosphoric light. "They tied him to the bed," Hilas said....

.....Mustafa Jassim Mustafa, detainee No. 150542, told military investigators he also witnessed the phosphoric-light assault. He said it was around the time of Ramadan, the holiest period of the Muslim year, when he heard screams coming from a cell below. Mustafa said he looked down to see a group of soldiers holding the detainee down and sodomizing him with the light.

Graner was sodomizing him with the phosphoric light, Mustafa said. The detainee "was screaming for help. There was another tall white man who was with Graner -- he was helping him. There was also a white female soldier, short, she was taking pictures."

Another detainee told military investigators that American soldiers sodomized and beat him. The detainee, whose name is being withheld by The Post because he is an alleged victim of a sexual assault, said he was kept naked for five days when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib and was forced to kneel for four hours with a hood over his head. He said he was beaten so badly one day that the hood flew off his head. "The police was telling me to crawl in Arabic, so I crawled on my stomach and the police were spitting on me when I was crawling, and hitting me on my back, my head and my feet," he said in his sworn statement.

One day, the detainee said, American soldiers held him down and spread his legs as another soldier prepared to open his pants. "I started screaming," he said. A soldier stepped on his head, he said, and someone broke a phosphoric light and spilled the chemicals on him.

"I was glowing and they were laughing," he said.

The detainee said the soldiers eventually brought him to a room and sodomized him with a nightstick. "They were taking pictures of me during all these instances," he told the investigators.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43783-2004May20.html

"Could the abuse of prisoners in Iraq have gone beyond the beatings and sexual humiliation already alleged? Unreleased, classified parts of the report on prison abuse from Major General Anthony Taguba, which were read to TIME, contain indications of mistreatment of female prisoners. In a Feb. 21 statement to Taguba, Lieut. Colonel Steven L. Jordan, former head of the Abu Ghraib interrogation center, said he had received reports "that there were members of the MI [Military Intelligence] community that had come over and done a late-night interrogation of two female detainees" last October. According to a statement by Jordan's boss, Colonel Thomas Pappas, three interrogators were later cited for violations of military law in their handling of the two females, ages 17 and 18. Senate Armed Services Committee investigators are probing whether the two women were sexually abused. The Pentagon declined to comment."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040628-655389,00.html

It's not funny that you can pass a guilty judgement against the US in what, "deaths by beating at Bagram"? Uhm, can you please kindly provide the links to the Pentagon's official announcements that there are suspicious deaths at Bagram?

It's not my call that the deaths were homicide. It's the Pentagon's.

From December 2002 to present, the Criminal Investigation Command has conducted or is continuing to conduct investigations into 35 cases of abuse or death of detainees held in detention facilities in the Central Command theater. Twenty-five of these are death cases, and 10 involve assault.

The CID investigates every death in our custody. Of the 25 death investigations, the CID has determined that 12 deaths were due to natural or undetermined causes, one was justifiable homicide, and two were homicides. The 10 remaining deaths are still under investigation.

http://www.pentagon.mil/speeches/2004/sp20040507-secdef0443.html

Name:	Ward Supervisor
To:	Scotty In Pink Taffeta
Re:	They're really a polycarbonate, but they look like real glass slippers!

In response to:
http://www.blowback.org/site.html and click on "Talk" to enter the discussion forum. These morons are proud A.N.S.W.E.R. & MoveOn.org fanatics. Reality is not their reality.

Message:
LOF will administer your spanking, Scotty.

Name:	Octagon Pool
To:	Magpie
Re:	100,000, 000 species senselessly destroyed!!!!!!!!!!

In response to:
no. my automatic chlorine generator in my pool is acting up. i've cleaned the elements with diluted muriatic acid and a brush and the salt content is 2900ppm but it's still not generating enough chlorine.

Message:
Your children will be born Naked!

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	PLEASE HELP

Message:
Can't you come up with a better moniker than that? PLEASE HELP! sounds so desperate.

Name:	Broderick & Bascomb
To:	Hillary Supporter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re:	Sundries to the Trade

In response to:
Don't worry, I'm not going over to your "publicly announced private board". Unlike you, I have a life and I don't feel the need to harass people just for the sake of it! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
The hell you don't! You have no life outside of harassing others and trying to control their micturation! Go on over to Blowback. It's exactly your kind of place. Hillary is Queen there.

Name:	RED & BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER!
Re:	The Environment. The Peoples. The Village. Join The Convergence!

In response to:
Can't you come up with a better moniker than that? PLEASE HELP! sounds so desperate

Message:
It fits right in with "HILLARY SUPPORTER!!" It's a STATEMENT and a CALL TO ACTION!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cruise on over to Blowback.org. It's a good radical Leftist site, and you'll soon feel right at home there. You can hook up with some people who will take you far beyond just pushing Hillary T-shirts and other petty, disaffected white middleclass female stuff and into some real nittty gritty activism!!! Come on over and get your hands dirty! Join us to MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN!

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

Message:
Maybe this will be Hillary waiving to a crowd soon as she's accepting the VP nomination.

Yes, right-wingers, look at this and weep and whine!

Name:	Bwaaaahahahahahah
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
"Can't you come up with a better moniker than that? PLEASE HELP! sounds so desperate."

Message:

Please tell me the video camera was on!!!!!!!!!!!!

HILLARY SUPPORTER says to PLEASE HELP!: "Can't you come up with a better moniker than that? PLEASE HELP! sounds so desperate."

Repeat.

HILLARY SUPPORTES says to PLEASE HELP!: "Can't you come up with a better moniker than that? PLEASE HELP! sounds so desperate."

OH, THE FREAKING IRONY!!!!

Name:	Tonto's Sunday Horse
To:	HillaRY hOOTER!!!!!!!!!!! In Dreamland
Re:	Inexpertly hyping a double handful of nothing

In response to:
Maybe this will be Hillary waiving to

Message:
She waived her credibility years ago. She has a record now. She can't escape it. She has no informed and competent base of support. Only The Beguiled, a few benighted tools like yourself, and some elements of the crackpot Left extremist fringe.

Name:

NuTone

Message:

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers was a guest this afternoon on the Hugh Hewitt radio program. Here are a couple of the most interesting responses from the general:

On the discovery of new WMD shells:

"I think there were 16 or 17 warheads that were discovered and have been confirmed that they contained both sarin --the nerve agent sarin-- and mustard gas, and now they are looking at the shells to try and determint their age and perhaps where they originated, so that work is ongoing and I expect there will be further reporting on that."

Did General Myers expect WMD to be used against the troops at the beginning of the war last year?:

"I did, in fact, because as you know as we marched from Kuwait to Baghdad, we found, I forget the exact number, something like three thousand protective suits that the Iraqis had prepositioned in southern Iraq.  We picked up other intelligence that said they were --in terms of their command and control-- that's why the troops were dressed the way they were in their protective gear, all the way from Kuwait to Baghdad."

On military bloggers:

"You know, I don't see that many of them, but based on this conversation, Hugh, I will see more of them. But I think when you get to the four star level, you fight to get information from the troops, and you don't want to be a victim of just getting fed what the staff brings you every day, so the way you work that  is through the internet, or you visit places, you go to Iraq, you go to Afghnaitsan, get down to the individual soldier, airman, Marine level, coastguardsman, DoD civilian, and you know, look 'em in the eye, and say "How's it going," and try to establish enough rapport that they'll tell you.  At my level, it is a constant fight  to make sure that you are getting the straight skinny, so I think it is  agood idea that I plug into some of those too in my spare time."

Name:

NuTone

Message:

Some Interesting Military & National Security Blogs

Belmont Club

Blackfive

Chief Wiggles

Citizen Smash

Command Post

Eject! Eject! Eject!

From the Halls to the Shores

Milblogs

Mudville Gazzette

Rantburg

Sgt Hook

Name:	Lars Jensen
To:	Hillary Supporter
Re:	Clueless!

In response to:
Maybe this will be Hillary waiving to a crowd soon as she's accepting the VP nomination.

Message:
That old gal ain't gonna be nobody's VP. She's gonna rule the roost or there ain't gonna be no roost.

I'd like to see Hillary and Jacques Chirac go twenty rounds in a steel cage match. Winner gets lifted out a trapdoor and sent to live with the Indigenous people of deepest Amazonia, & the loser gets dropped through the floor and into the seething alligator pits below!

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Tonto's Sunday Horse

In response to:
She waived her credibility years ago. She has a record now. She can't escape it. She has no informed and competent base of support. Only The Beguiled, a few benighted tools like yourself, and some elements of the crackpot Left extremist fringe.

Message:
If that were true, then why are you guys so afraid of her? Why do you hate her or any of her supporters so much? If you really felt that she isn't going anywhere, you wouldn't carry on like you do!

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
That old gal ain't gonna be nobody's VP. She's gonna rule the roost or there ain't gonna be no roost.

Message:
I would rather see her as President myself, but if the time isn't right for her now, then I'll take and support her as VP.

Name:	Hamilton Stables
To:	NuTone

In response to:
Sgt Hook, etc.

Message:
Sounds like a bunch of racehorses. Maybe a whole bar full of 'em!

Name:

magpie

In response to:
let me answer this one

Message:
If that were true, then why are you guys so afraid of her?

because she's an avowed socialist and would love to get her hands on peoples stuff by using the powers of an imperial federal government to do it.

Why do you hate her or any of her supporters so much?

because they are usually less than intelligent victim obsessed rabble who have an ax to grind against enemies of their paranoia like new aged cultural revolutionaries and red guards.

Name:	NuTone
To:	Hamilton Stables

In response to:
Sorry

Guess it would help if the links actually worked (these do)

Message:

Some Interesting Military & National Security Blogs Belmont Club Blackfive Chief Wiggles Citizen Smash Command Post Eject! Eject! Eject! From the Halls to the Shores Milblogs Mudville Gazzette Rantburg Sgt Hook

Name:	Tonto's Sunday Horse
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re:	Clueless Tool

In response to:
If that were true, then why are you guys so afraid of her? Why do you hate her or any of her supporters so much? If you really felt that she isn't going anywhere, you wouldn't carry on like you do! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
What the hell makes you think you can read my mind when you can't even read your own mind? I think it would be just marvelous if Hillary jerked the rug out from under J. Kohn Kerry and took the nomination away from him. Either one of them will probably finish off the Democratic party for good if they manage to get elected president. Of the two, I would judge Kerry to be the least fit, both ideologically (they are both Leftist radicals) and personally.

Name:

Amos

Message:

 Harsh Words for Blacks...