Age of Political Segregation

By DAVID BROOKS

Published: June 29, 2004

I've been writing about polarization a fair bit recently, and the more I look into it, the more I think I'll just move to Tahiti. That's because the causes of polarization — at least among elites — have little to do with passing arguments about the war, the Bush leadership style or the Clinton scandals. The causes are deeper and structural.

To a large degree, polarization in America is a cultural consequence of the information age. This sort of economy demands and encourages education, and an educated electorate is a polarized electorate.

In theory, of course, education is supposed to help us think independently, to weigh evidence and make up our own minds. But that's not how it works in the real world. Highly educated people may call themselves independents, but when it comes to voting they tend to pick a partisan side and stick with it. College-educated voters are more likely than high-school-educated voters to vote for candidates from the same party again and again.

That's because college-educated voters are more ideological. As the Emory political scientist Alan Abramowitz has shown, a college-educated Democrat is likely to be more liberal than a high-school-educated Democrat, and a college-educated Republican is likely to be more conservative than a high-school-educated Republican. The more you crack the books, the more likely it is you'll shoot off to the right or the left.

Once you've joined a side, the information age makes it easier for you to surround yourself with people like yourself. And if there is one thing we have learned over the past generation, it's that we are really into self-validation.

We don't only want radio programs and Web sites from members of our side — we want to live near people like ourselves. Information age workers aren't tied down to a mine, a port or a factory. They have more opportunities to shop for a place to live, and they tend to cluster in places where people share their cultural aesthetic and, as it turns out, political values. So every place becomes more like itself, and the cultural divides between places become stark. The information age was supposed to make distance dead, but because of clustering, geography becomes more important.

The political result is that Republican places become more Republican and Democratic places become more Democratic.

Between 1948 and 1976, most counties in the U.S. became more closely divided between Republicans and Democrats. In 1976, Gerald Ford, a Republican, could win most of New England and the entire Pacific coast, and he almost won New York.

But since then we've been segregating politically. As Bill Bishop of The Austin American-Statesman has found, the number of counties where one party or another has a landslide majority has doubled over the past quarter-century. Whole regions are now solidly Democratic or Republican. Nearly three-quarters of us, according to Bishop, live in counties that are becoming less competitive, and many of us find ourselves living in places that are overwhelmingly liberal or overwhelmingly conservative.

When we find ourselves in such communities, our views shift even further in the dominant direction. You get this self-reinforcement cycle going, which social scientists call "group polarization."

People lose touch with others in opposing, now distant, camps. And millions of kids are raised in what amount to political ghettoes.

It's pretty clear that nobody in this election campaign is going to talk much about any of this. This election will apparently be decided on the question of whether it was worth it to go to war in Iraq. That's sucking the air out of every other issue, and inducing the candidates to run orthodox, unimaginative campaigns.

Still, it's worth thinking radically. An ambitious national service program would ameliorate the situation. If you had a big but voluntary service program of the sort that Evan Bayh, a Democrat, and John McCain, a Republican, proposed a couple of years ago, millions of young people would find themselves living with different sorts of Americans and spending time in parts of the country they might otherwise know nothing about.

It might even be worth monkeying with our primary system. The current primaries reward orthodox, polarization-reinforcing candidates. Open, nonpartisan primaries might reward the unorthodox and weaken the party bases. To do nothing is to surrender to a lifetime of ugliness.  source

 


Name:   opi
Message:
The space elevator is not a new idea. A Russian scientist, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, envisioned it a century ago. And Arthur C. Clarke's novel "The Foundations of Paradise," published in 1979, talks of a space elevator 24,000 miles high, and permanent colonies on the moon, Mercury and Mars.

The difference now, Edwards said, is "we have a material that we can use to actually build it."

He envisions launching sections of cable into space on rockets. A "climber" — his version of an elevator car — would then be attached to the cable and used to add more lengths of cable until eventually it stretches down to the Earth. A counterweight would be attached to the end in space.

Edwards likens the design to "spinning a ball on a string around your head." The string is the cable and the ball on the end is a counterweight. The Earth's rotation would keep the cable taut.

The elevator would be powered by photo cells that convert light into electricity. A laser attached to the platform could be aimed at the elevator to deliver the light, Edwards said.

Edwards said he probably needs about two more years of development on the carbon nanotubes to obtain the strength needed. After that, he believes work on the project can begin.

"The major obstacle is probably just politics or funding and those two are the same thing," he said. "The technical, I don't think that's really an issue anymore


Name:   NuTone
Message:
a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6775-2004Jun25.html" target="_blank">The Washington Post and the New York Times both review the successful campaign to suppress the April uprisings in Iraq.  As attacks pick up this weekend in an attempt to mar the turn-over of sovereignty to a new government, it will be important to keep in mind that the only way that Iraq will be lost is if the American will to build a democracy there falters.

The Belmont Club has an extraordinarily pointed analysis of why the left is making this exercise of American will so difficult to maintain, but it hasn't been shaken yet.  The Green Side has the latest e-mail from USMC Major Dave Bellon, and any reader of this or the other e-mails from Major Bellon will not allow the cut-and-run caucus to get traction.  When a new government is firmly established and a stable and free Iraq functioning in the future, not only will we owe the troops all the credit for winning the war in Iraq, we will also have to recognize how their front-line reporting via e-mail and the internet generally helped win the war for resolve at home.

It is a good weekend to visit Soldiers' Angels and adopt one soldier, sailor, airman or Marine stationed in Iraq for the purpose of sending letters and care packages.  It doesn't take much on your part, but as the testimonies get collected by the volunteer staff at Soldiers' Angels, the young men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere around the world are deeply appreciative of their new friends, and for some, it is the most contact with the States that they have.  If you act now, your soldier may hear from you by the Fourth of July --a great day to recognize their contribution to the ongoing battle for freedom around the globe.


Name:   Nutone
In response to:
a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6775-2004Jun25.html" target="_blank">

Message:


Name:   khobar
To:   American

Message:
We have had war thrust upon us. I am in no mood to surrender my country and my fate to a few very dedicated fanatics who wish to saw my head off of my body for the crime of being non-Muslim and/or American

The world backed the US invasion of Afghanistan, when the US armed forces were in search of al-Qaeda, a proven enemy of the US.

Do remind us which Iraqis joined in the attack on 9/11. Do remind which weapons Saddam possessed which were capable of striking at the US.


Name:   khobar
To:   Chica

Message:
Sarin & mustard gas have been found.

Kindly provide a link to the Pentagon's official announcement that either of the shells in question had been found by a US laboratory to have contained banned chemical weapons.


Name:   khobar
To:   Chica

Message:
As much as the media and you try to ignore it, things in Iraq HAVE gotten better under the US than Saddam.

I would be happy to see such a development.

* Were there more deaths by violence in 2000 or 2003/4?
* Were there more kidnappings and carjackings in 2000 or 2003/4?
* Were people more likely to have steady jobs in 2000 or 2003/4?
* Were the hospitals functioning better in 2000 or 2003/4?


Name:   khobar
To:   Chica

Message:
The US Abu Ghraib incidents did not show rape or murder.

Actually, they did. Sex with a 12-year-old prisoner is rape. And suspicious deaths in custody are likely to be homicides, by negligence at least, like the deaths by beating at Bagram.


Name:   khobar
To:   Chica

Message:
outrage has been expressed by Republicans everywhere on what happened. And, yes, the actions of a rogue few do not represent the values of this whole country.

No, it hasn't. Not much of it visible here, for example. Instead, we have an attempt to scapegoat the few who got caught in the act. I do not expect even a lowly lieutenant to stand trial, let alone any senior officer or civilian in the Pentagon.


Name:   khobar
To:   ET

Message:
Thanks for your kind words.

As to your questions, permit me more timeto consider a response, okay?


Name:   Chica
To:   khobat

In response to:
We have had war thrust upon us. I am in no mood to surrender my country and my fate to a few very dedicated fanatics who wish to saw my head off of my body for the crime of being non-Muslim and/or American

The world backed the US invasion of Afghanistan, when the US armed forces were in search of al-Qaeda, a proven enemy of the US. Do remind us which Iraqis joined in the attack on 9/11. Do remind which weapons Saddam possessed which were capable of striking at the US.

Message:
Without request, I'm answering in favor of 'American' ...

What does your response have anything to do with what American said? huh? Secondly, the Bush administration never said that Saddam was tied to 9-11. Thirdly, as I have already mentioned, Saddam posseseed WMDs that he (hello?) used to kill tens of thousands of his own people. Furthermore, he did have proven ties to other terrorists that could've used the WMDs (and probably still can) on our soil.

I agree with 'American'. Appeasement doesn't work. Maybe you want to wait until the next American, or now Turkey citizen, or perhaps you're really hoping for an Israeli or two to be beheaded. You'd rather blame your own country than these crazed lunatics. Let's hear you cry like dem babies when I question your patriotism.


Name:   Chica
To:   khobat

In response to:
Sarin & mustard gas have been found.

Kindly provide a link to the Pentagon's official announcement that either of the shells in question had been found by a US laboratory to have contained banned chemical weapons.

Message:
That is such a lame response. So you get all your info from the Pentagon? And the rest of the liberal news sources quoting the Pentagon should not be trusted? Anyway here's your e-addr to the American Forces Press Service http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/05/mil-040517-afps01.htm

Pretend it didn't happen. That's very novel of you. I expect another denial anytime now.

If a donkey kicked you in the face, you'd swear it was an elephant.


Name:   Civil Bagdasarian
Message:
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Print a text version of this article
...floating hologram of the Third Temple

Submitted By:Jack
Click for Source Article
Yitzhak Hayut-Man, a cyber-architect with outlandish ideas, is gaining followers

The imaginings of Dr. Yitzhak Hayut-Man (B Arch, MSc, PhD) undermine the very axioms of the mainstream academic and religious establishments that shun him.

The Hebrew media has ignored his maverick proposals for a floating hologram of the Third Temple and multiple-player interactive computer games "set in the Old City of Jerusalem and its celestial counterpart, the Heavenly Jerusalem that will enable multitudes to conduct a spiritual pilgrimage."

The cutting-edge US techno-culture monthly Wired devoted an eight-page spread to Hayut-Man's work in its April issue, kick-starting dozens of Internet discussion groups. The Italian La Republica daily ran a follow-up feature in its weekend supplement.

"Six potential investors wrote to say that they'd like to help, and I consulted with my existing team developing the game system. After we demanded that they sign a confidentiality agreement to protect our intellectual property, the interest petered out."

Hayut-Man heads the self-styled Academy of Jerusalem, a think-tank association of 20 "multidisciplinary visionaries. My main mission is to design the games, to show a truth about Jerusalem that nobody seems to notice: The [Third] Temple already exists. It's straight in front of our eyes, in the most conspicuous place. Depicted as a temple of wisdom and womb for the three religions, it can breed interfaith understanding."

He envisages a hovering holographic temple, projected by an array of high-powered, water-cooled lasers fired into a smoke-filled transparent polyurethane cube with a lightweight metal frame suspended beneath a blimp. The ephemeral, flickering image in the three-dimensional projection screen will fulfill an ancient Jewish prophecy that the Temple will descend from the heavens as a manifestation of light, he explains.

"Rashi [the biblical commentator] envisioned the Temple as a structure of light in the sky. Technology has given us the tools to realize this prophecy."

Hayut-Man bases his ideas on the thesis of the 19th-century Jewish Hungarian orientalist Ignaz Goldziher - one of the first non-Muslim researchers of Islam - that the Temple Mount was a substitute for the Ka'ba in Mecca.

"Goldziher's ideas never became widely accepted, but [Hebrew University] Prof. Amikam Elad's recent research into medieval Jerusalem and Islamic worship proves that this was their intention," he says. "This may seem inconceivable to today's Muslims, but Islamic historians have found more supporting material."

Hayut-Man has further corroboration from Kabbala researchers who have explored the Dome's meaning in terms of the neo-pythagorian esoteric science of that time.

"This was not the zealous Islam that we know nowadays. The Dome of the Rock was not intended as a mosque. It has no religious use, but rather symbolic value. Muslims turn their butts to it when they pray on the Temple Mount. Conceptually, not only Muslims turn away from it - Jews and Christians also do."

Hayut-Man says that his research complements these findings by speculating about the craftsmen. He describes the structure as a precise hyper-dimensional portal.

"Halif Abd El-Malik, who built the Dome in 692, gathered the greatest artisans from Morocco to India to rebuild Solomon's Temple. The secrets of this geometric architectural language were kept within the masons' guilds. Most people intuitively appreciate the building's proportions without understanding its exquisite geometric patterns."

The Dome of the Rock, he explains, was conceptualized as an observatory into the fifth dimension. It was built as a 3-D model of a 4-D cube.

"The rock is surrounded by seven concentric rings of portals - 24 gates, then 16 gates, then 16 windows, roof patterns subdivided into 32 figures, etc. All these numbers are typical of 4-D and 5-D cubes. It completed a sacred design of the Heavenly Jerusalem, as described in the Zohar."

The Hayut-Man family has lived in the Katamon neighborhood for 15 years. They have two children, aged 21 and 15.

He can no longer afford his former arched-ceiling office in the Jewish Quarter, where the golden reflection of the Omar Mosque, barely 150 meters away, would envelope his study with a shimmering yellow sheen on sunny afternoons.

Hayut-Man is involved in an ongoing $20 million patent-infringement suit against the Palm Corporation. Together with two other Israeli inventors, he claims that in 1995 he filed a design for cheap, wireless game consoles with the US Patent and Trademark Office, and should therefore receive royalties on what has since become a commonplace device.

He was born into a wealthy Haifa family. A free spirit, he spent periods as a dropout on the West Coast and traveled through the jungles of Brazil after his military service.

During the Sixties, he studied architecture at UC Berkeley and cybernetics in London, where his interest in Sacred Geometry began. In 1965, he first met his spiritual mentor, the late cyberguru Buckminster Fuller.

He earned a masters degree in urban planning at the Haifa Technion and in 1981 completed his PhD in cybernetics at London's Brunel University, where his dissertation described a virtual Temple Mount where Jews and Arabs could interact.

With his bushy white beard and flowery use of both Hebrew and English, Hayut-Man is an impressive man. He rises early to swim or play basketball before sitting down in his single-room Rehavia office at 8:30 a.m., often working into the evening.

"I write proposals. Right now, I'm finishing an interpretation of the Book of Genesis, written in future tense. Genesis should be read as a prophecy written 3,000 years ago, a blueprint for constructing Israel as a multi-tribal national entity. Genesis is about the God of Israel, not the God of the Jews."

Samples of some of his voluminous papers can be seen at his Web site, www.thehope.org.

"I'm concerned with existential problems. I was in the Old City for 13 years. I would walk through every neighborhood and I never felt I was in any danger."

Within a week of moving to Rehavia, a caf was blown up less than 100 meters away from Hayut-Man on Derech Aza.

"It's too late for a two-state solution - that option was never viable. One state can fulfill the biblical ideal. It's not a matter of us against them, rather tribes with different views and beliefs."

He derives hope from the separation fence that is cutting the city in two.

"I have found to my great surprise that this beastly wall will complement the holy structure of the city. A new wall around Jerusalem, with a new set of gates - that should be controlled by soldiers alongside residents who know their neighbors on the other side - will become the first of seven stages of defining people's intentions. The first criterion for entering the city should be no weapons. There will be finer spiritual criteria for approaching the holy [Temple] Mount, the Dome of the Rock, and the rock itself."

Hayut-Man doesn't think the religious will build the Third Temple - the secular will.

"We can spontaneously build a temple of peace. Twelve tribes can balance each other and create a stable solution for our grandchildren. It can be done right now, if people are ready to drop their preconceptions." But is the Middle East ready for Dr. Hayut-Man?


Name:   Chica
To:   khobat

Re:   As much as the media and you try to ignore it, things in Iraq HAVE gotten better
In response to:
I would be happy to see such a development.

Message:
Be so happy that you'll piss your pants, you anti-patriot. Keep in mind this letter is a half a year old.

The following is an email message sent to all First Marine Air Wing and Marine Wing Support Squadron 171 from Lt. Col Scot S. Seitz, Commanding Officer, on Monday, December 1, 2003. It's worth reading and sharing.

Marines and Sailors,

As we approach the end of the year, I think it is important to share a few thoughts about what you've accomplished directly, in some cases, and indirectly in many others.

I am speaking about what the Bush Administration and each of you has contributed by wearing the uniform, because the fact that you wear the uniform contributes 100% to the capability of the nation to send a few onto the field to execute national policy.

As you read about these achievements you are a part of, I would call your attention to two things:

1. This is good news that hasn't been fit to print or report on TV.

2. It is much easier to point out the errors a man makes when he makes the tough decisions, rarely is the positive as aggressively pursued.

Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1. . . The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty. over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens. Nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning. The Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

On Monday, October 6, power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the prewar average.

All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.

By October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools-500 more than scheduled. Teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.

All 240 hospitals and more than 1,200 clinics are open. Doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam. Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.

The Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to Iraq's children. A Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27 000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women. we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and over Two-thirds of the potable water production. There are 4,900 full-service telephone connections.

We expect 50,000 by year-end. The wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns. 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily.

Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses. The central bank is fully independent. Iraq has one of the world's most growth-oriented investment and banking laws. Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years. Satellite TV dishes are legal. Foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other government spies.

There is no Ministry of Information. There are more than 170 newspapers. You can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner. Foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go. A nation that had not one single element-legislative, judicial or executive-of a representative government, now does.

In Baghdad alone, residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman. Today in Iraq, chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.

25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government. The Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July, the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world. Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't. For the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam. The Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.

Uday and Qusay are dead-and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics. children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government.

Political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam. millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror. Saudis will hold municipal elections.

Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents. Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms. The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian-a Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace.

Saddam is gone. Iraq is free. President Bush has not faltered or failed.

Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the Press corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important Iraq under US-led control has come further in six months than Germany did in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII.

Military deaths from fanatic Nazis & Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued for over three years after WWII victory was declared. It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let alone attempt to build something else in its place.

Now, take into account that almost every Democrat leader in the House and Senate has fought President Bush on every aspect of his handling of this country's war and the post-war reconstruction, and that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this conflict has been a failure.

Taking everything into consideration, event the unfortunate loss of our brothers and sisters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush administration in so short a period of time?

These are things worth writing about. Get the word out. Write to someone you think may be able to influence our Congress or the press to tell the story. Above all, be proud that you are a part of this historical precedent.

God bless you all. Have a great Holiday. Semper Fidelis, Lt Col Scot S Seitz Thanks. Happy New Year to all!

http://www.matsuvalleynews.com/pr71.html

Here's another one for you to contemplate at http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/rydbom.asp TRUE


Name:   THANKS
To:   khobat

Re:    The US Abu Ghraib incidents did not show rape or murder.
In response to:
Actually, they did. Sex with a 12-year-old prisoner is rape. And suspicious deaths in custody are likely to be homicides, by negligence at least, like the deaths by beating at Bagram.

Message:
Two can play this game. Kindly provide a link to the Pentagon's official announcement that at Abu Ghraib a US military person had sex with a minor prisoner. Oh, yeah the alleged rape must be certified by a US laboratory.

It's not funny that you can pass a guilty judgement against the US in what, "deaths by beating at Bagram"? Uhm, can you please kindly provide the links to the Pentagon's official announcements that there are suspicious deaths at Bagram?


Name:   Friend
Message:
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a -- hamburger today".Go to http://www.spywareinfo.com and click on the online scanner link on the lower left. An online scanner will start and clean up your machine. I run this about once a week.

http://www.spywareinfo.com


Name:   Friend
To:   LOF BUGS

Message:

http://www.spywareinfo.com


Name:   Roger
To:   NYT Clintonites

Message:
NYT Maureen Dowd's column Thursday about presidential power said that one of the good things about the Clinton administration was that there was a smaller body count than the Bush administration ("When leaders do it because they can . . . ").

Unless she has forgotten about the million people hacked to death in Rwanda, or the millions that starved in Somalia or the thousands that died in Kosovo or Serbia because Bill Clinton did not have the backbone to save the oppressed, I think Dowd should qualify her statements - as in there were fewer "American" bodies under Clinton.

President Bush sacrificed 1,000 American lives to free 50 million people from oppression. He has saved thousands of these people as they can no longer be put to death or stoned in the streets for exercising basic human rights.

What has happened to the Democrats? When did they start qualifying all of their statements with "for Americans only?" Freedom, women's rights and jobs are only for Americans? We are the richest, most privileged people in the world, yet we still insist this election is about the economy.

No wonder the world hates us!


Name:   Findish
To:   khobar

Re:   Get ready to piss your pants again.
Message:
Publication Date: 11/17/2003

Amid Violence, Iraq Reconstruction Endures
By Pete Sigmund

Amid the violence in Iraq, the U.S. construction industry is playing a major role in the battle to reconstruct the country’s power and water facilities, bridges, roads, schools and other infrastructure. This effort, using mostly Iraqi subcontractors, also is regarded as an important step toward reconstructing the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.

Bechtel National Inc., the government services business unit of the Bechtel Group in San Francisco, CA, is managing a massive repair and rehabilitation effort, which will employ many thousands of Iraqis under a $1-billion contract from the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), the agency in charge of the Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction Program. USAID’s Iraq mission director, Lew Lucke, reports administratively to both the Department of State and the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) under L. Paul Bremer III.

Congress recently approved an $87.5-billion supplemental aid package for Iraq, including $18.4 billion for reconstruction.

“The reconstruction effort is moving forward very successfully,” Luke Zahner, a spokesperson of USAID in Washington, D.C., told Construction Equipment Guide (CEG). “We have brought the power grid to its pre-war level and 1,300 of the 1,595 schools, which we rehabbed, opened on October 1 for one million elementary and high school students.”

As of Oct. 24, Bechtel had awarded 149 subcontracts, of which 110 went to Iraqi firms. Iraqi subcontractors will handle approximately 70 percent of the reconstruction effort.

More than 10,300 companies have registered with Bechtel as being interested in participating in the reconstruction. Bechtel has approximately 600 expatriate (non-Iraqi foreign) and approximately 60 U.S. citizens supervising work in Iraq. It is training Iraqis in engineering and management skills so they can run the infrastructure themselves.

“We’re not talking about a country that needs to be built from scrap,” Zahner said. “Iraq needs a lot of work, but the basics are in place for accomplishing the job.”

In supplying subcontractors, Iraq has one of the most highly-educated populations in the Arab world. Bechtel said the Iraqis have responded enthusiastically to the challenge and that their accomplishments in rebuilding the infrastructure for economic growth and humanitarian aid are a hopeful step toward greater support among the general populace (see A Signature Project).

Iraq’s food rationing system alone requires transporting approximately half a million tons of food per month to food rationing distribution centers used by approximately 60 percent of the population. The United States is believed to be the largest contributor to the UN/World Food Program for Iraq with USAID having donated a total of 575,320 metric tons of food.

If President Bush were to visit Iraq, and address the Iraqi people, he could point to many construction/rehab projects benefiting them, including:

Oil

Kellogg, Brown & Root and other contractors are restoring the petroleum infrastructure. Oil production reached 550,000 barrels per day (b/d) in September at Kirkuk and other fields in northern Iraq, and 1.3 billion b/d in southern Iraq.

The U.S. Department of Commerce says that restoration of significant production means that “Iraq has the potential to earn between $10 billion and $15 billion annually over the next several years” and that “the development of Iraq’s vast oil reserves will spur the country’s economic recovery and future growth.”

The department says Iraq has an estimated 112-billion barrels of oil reserves, the world’s second largest after Saudi Arabia, and that undiscovered resources may increase this figure to as high as 200-billion barrels, so that it can potentially produce 6 million b/d.

Power Plants

After Saddam Hussein fell, looters left many power facilities, which had suffered decades of neglect and mismanagement, in shambles. Engineers from Bechtel, USAID, the Iraqi Electric Commission and the Corps of Engineers have been gradually restoring Iraq’s power capacity since last May

“The first benchmark was bringing capacity past pre-war levels of 4,400 megawatts [MW]; we accomplished this on October 6, when power generation peaked at 4,518 megawatts,” Zahner said. “The CPA has laid out a future goal of 6,000 megawatts of power by the summer of 2004.”

The combined Iraqi-American power team is rehabbing the Doura power plant in Baghdad and the plant at Bayji, repairing thermal and gas units. Bechtel is constructing three new plants, with 11 individual 40 MW units, at Kirkuk, Mussayyib, and South Baghdad. This power program, to be complete by December 2004, is creating 4,000 temporary and approximately 250 permanent jobs. It is expected to employ approximately 68 Iraqi and 15 international subcontractors.

“The work has meant reconnecting power lines, rehabilitating the network, and ensuring that distribution of electricity is more equitable among the different regions,” Zahner told CEG. “The electrical grid had been deteriorating steadily for the past two decades, since the Iran-Iraq War. Completely revamping the facilities will be an ongoing process over a long period of time. It’s not only necessary as the economy grows and more factories come on line and need electricity, but you must compensate for the loss of investment over the past 20 years while the country poured everything into the military.”

The reconstruction, rehab and upgrade program includes generating more power, plus transmitting and distributing it. It’s also completing procurement of materials, which had begun under the United Nations Oil-for-Food program, and it’s providing spare parts and maintenance, which had been long-neglected.

More than 900 “power police,” including 245 in Baghdad, have been deployed to provide security at key sites.

Water and Wastewater

Restoring water and sanitation systems, to ensure a reliable supply of potable water to the general public, is still an urgent priority.

One of the problems has been a lack of electricity to run the utility systems.

“As long as electricity has been problematic, sanitation has been problematic,” Zahner said. “Also, the Tigris River has been treated as an open sewer for decades now. It will take years to clean this up; it’s not something that the U.S. will be able to fix in six months. Just the immediate investments we’ve made to the electric grid, working with the CPA to establish generator capacity, are enormous steps to make sure the Iraqis have clean water. The fact that there has been no outbreak of cholera or other waterborne diseases is another indication that a crisis was indeed averted.”

The USAID program, which has a scheduled completion date of December 2004, aims at restoring potable water to Baghdad and six other urban centers: Mosul, Ad Diwaniyah, Al Hillah, An Najaf, Karbala, and Al Basrah.

Bechtel began by inspecting water facilities at urban centers across Iraq. The company then developed a strategy for removing the pollution load entering the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, and started systematically improving water supply systems, from source to treatment. The water and wastewater program is creating jobs for 3,000 skilled and unskilled workers, and will employ at least 20 Iraqi subcontractors.

In September, good water came again for the 40,000 residents of Safwan. Baghdad is to receive an additional 225,000 cubic meters a day by May 2004 under a project to expand the city’s “Sabah Nissana” water plant.

The sewage system for Baghdad, which has 2.6 million residents, is being refurbished, with funding by USAID and the CPA. Seventy of the city’s 90 non-functioning waste pumping stations are being rehabbed. Iraq’s largest wastewater treatment facility, Rustimiyah, is being restored.

USAID says teams also have repaired more than 1,700 critical breaks in Baghdad’s water network, increasing flow by 200,000 cubic meters per day.

In the southern city of Al Basrah, refurbishment of the water supply system for 1.2 million residents includes cleaning, dredging and repairing the supporting infrastructure of the Sweet Water Canal, and rehabbing network pump stations and treatment plants. The canal is currently running at less than half capacity.

By about this time next year, approximately 20 water treatment plants and numerous water pump stations and distribution systems are to be restored to full capacity, and approximately 85 percent of Iraq’s sewage treatment capacity is expected to be operating. USAID says the water and sanitation projects will benefit more than 14.5 million Iraqis.

Bridges

Iraq has more than 1,100 bridges over the Tigris and Euphrates rivers and their tributaries. Many need rehabilitation. The immediate focus, however, is on three critical bridges which were damaged in the recent conflict.

Using Iraqi subs, Bechtel is reconstructing these three priority bridges after demolishing irreparable sections.

The Al Mat Bridge, a key link on Highway 10 near Ar Rutbah in western Iraq is the main route between Iraq and Jordan. USAID says this pair of dual-lane bridges, which carry more than 3,000 trucks a day, often transporting humanitarian goods, “was in imminent danger of collapse.” It’s expected to reopen in February or March, hopefully in time to beat the rainy season which would make the Wadi River impassable.

Dijla Precast Concrete Co., founded in Baghdad in 1952 but forced to leave by Saddam Hussein, has returned to Iraq as the Concrete Works Co. and is supplying the bridge beams. Bechtel said this company will now be “a viable source of precast and prestressed concrete products for future heavy civil work in Iraq.”

The Khazir Bridge between Mosul and Arbil, which is considered “critical to the flow of fuel and agricultural products in the North Region.” A subcontractor is scheduled to complete this pair of dual-lane bridges by February 2004.

The two-lane Tikrit Bridge is an important link for passengers and commerce over the Tigris on the road to the oil fields of Kirkuk. Two spans on the upstream side of this bridge were heavily damaged. Bechtel has been working on the engineering solution while the subcontractor fabricates replacement beams and demolishes downed spans. Because original drawings aren’t available, Bechtel is recreating detailed engineering drawings from field measurements to guide fabrication of replacement trusses. Target date for completion is April 2004.

Using an Iraqi subcontractor, Bechtel completed a 1.5-km, four-lane bypass for Al Mat last summer.

A floating bridge over the Tigris in Al Cut also has been repaired, improving traffic for approximately 50,000 travelers a day.

Roads

Most of Iraq’s 24,000 miles of roads and highways, 85 percent of which are paved, were built in the 1970s and 1980s and have received little maintenance.

USAID says that “Many miles of road [in Iraq] will need to be repaired in the near term.” These include many of the primary four-lane roads between Baghdad and Iraq’s main cities, which were often built for troop movements, plus many unpaved secondary roads.

A 94-mi. missing section of the six-lane expressway between Baghdad, Basra and Jordan also needs to be completed.

Schools

USAID has managed a nationwide school rehab program, which employed 30,000 Iraqis. Approximately 1 million students returned to safe and secure schools on Oct. 1.

USAID says a total of 1,595 primary and secondary schools throughout Iraq have been repaired, approximately 1,200 by Bechtel and others by Creative Associates International, Washington, D.C., under its $62-million contract from USAID, or by non-governmental associations like Mercy Corps International.

The work involved 218 grants worth $3.28 million.

The agency also has delivered 75 percent of 1.5 million secondary student kits, which are needed, 50 percent of 808,000 primary student kits, 75 percent of 81,755 primary teacher kits, 75 percent of 241,000 pieces of secondary school furniture, and 33 percent of 58,000 needed chalkboards.

Iraqi engineers and contractors have done most of the school projects, which included repairing floors, walls, ceilings and windows, lighting, water supplies, and lavatories. This has allowed Bechtel to transfer management expertise and current practices to the Iraqi engineering and construction industry, with the Iraq Ministry of Housing and Construction assisting in supervision with its own engineers.

Approximately 100 health clinics and 15 fire stations also are being rehabbed.

Airports

All of Iraq’s 108 airports, including the international ones at Baghdad and Basra, and major domestic airports at Mosul, Kirkuk and Irbil, are “severely outdated,” USAID said. International commercial flights haven’t operated in the country for 13 years. Outdated equipment, especially for air traffic control, needs to be replaced.

Bechtel assisted several partners in rehabbing Baghdad International Airport after the end of major combat. This included repairing runways, refurbishing Terminal C, installing power generators and establishing an air traffic control communications system.

SkyLink Air and Logistic Support (USA) Inc., is assessing and managing five airports, developing smooth airfreight and passenger service.

Rail

Bechtel and Iraqi Republic Railways (IRR) are jointly constructing a new European standard rail line in the Basrah region to improve freight transport from the Port of Umm Qasr to the rest of the country. The single-track line has not been upgraded since the 1950s.

The program, to be completed by the end of 2004, includes building 72 km of new UIC 60-standard track between the port and Shuiba Junction, near Basrah.

Bechtel is training IRR people in track construction and maintenance

Iraq has five rail lines, and approximately 1,525 mi. of rail line, approximately half of which is in poor condition. Many of its 107 stations, as well as maintenance shops, were looted. Approximately 10 trains run per day. The new rail program will improve this to 30 per day, and increase speeds from 30 to 90 kmh.

Iraq’s rolling stock has deteriorated severely over the past decade. It has approximately 150 operable locomotives, 150 passenger cars, and 8,000 flatbeds.

Seaports

Shipments of food and other goods in a massive humanitarian aid program are vital to making a new Iraq work, and they are succeeding.

Iraq has six ports, but only one deep-water harbor — at Umm Qasr. When Bechtel engineers entered Iraq last May, they found everything rundown. There was no commercial power or water supply. Ships sunk during the Iran-Iraq war partially blocked the entrance to the port. The channel was silted up.

Through subcontractors, Bechtel dredged the channel to 12.5 meters to accommodate large ships and removed one major wreck and three smaller vessels. The port’s large grain facility has been reconstructed, and can now unload up to 60,000 tons of grain at a time. Bechtel said Umm Qasr is now fully operational.

Telecommunications

The USAID/Bechtel program is restoring 12 destroyed telephone exchanges, and reconnecting 240,000 telephone subscribers in Baghdad, who represent more than 20 percent of the installed telephones in Iraq. The program also has included installing an international satellite gateway in Baghdad and restoring the fiber optic backbone connecting Iraqi cities.

Bechtel Responds

Bechtel has responded forcefully to a Newsweek article titled, “Bush’s $87 Billion Mess,” saying it was “clearly a story in search of failures” and insulted the men and women working in Iraq at great personal cost because they are doing something right.”

Bechtel won its limited bidding contract in competition among 21 firms.


Name:   Findish
To:   khobar

Re:   link for the post
Message:
http://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/story.asp?story=3932


Name:   Roger
To:   Findish

Re:   khobar
In response to:
closed minds made up tight

Message:
Why do you waste your time?

Some people are just un-reachable. People like khobar would be totally suprised if they are sitting in front of 4 masked Islamo-Fascists being filmed and one of them grabbed his orange jump suited mug and sawed it off.


Name:   Findish
Re:   Media Bias
Message:
A Measure of Media Bias 
Tim Groseclose
Department of Political Science, UCLA, and
Graduate School of Business, Stanford University 

Jeff Milyo
Harris School of Public Policy
University of Chicago 

September 2003   

"Our results show a very significant liberal bias. All of the news outlets except Fox News Special Report received a score to the left of the average member of Congress."


Name:   Findish
In response to:
People like khobar would be totally suprised if they are sitting in front of 4 masked Islamo-Fascists being filmed and one of them grabbed his orange jump suited mug and sawed it off.

Message:
Ouch


Name:   Findish
Re:   http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1970759
Message:
Movie Goer Assaulted at Fahrenheit 9/11 Showing

  (Jun. 25) -- The highly anticipated film, Fahrenheit 9/11, came with more than just controversy at one Las Vegas movie theatre. Moviegoer, Richard Streeter, was one of the many who made his way to a theatre to see what the hype was about. After viewing the film, he was greeted outside the theatre by members of the Las Vegas MoveOn.org.

The group was handing out leaflets on the importance of the film. Streeter voiced his view on the movie, "I made the comment, apples and oranges -- Kerry, Bush -- one's no better than the other. You really ain't got much of a choice. This guy comes up to me and says, 'Oh yeah?' " Streeter was then spat on by the same man.

He attempted to call police to report the incident when he was told not to, "A guy standing next to him said why don't you drop it. I said, 'No, I'm calling the police. I'm exercising my right as a citizen, I've been assaulted.' "

But the horror kept on growing for Streeter as he walked to his car on the phone with police, "This guy turns, and totally by surprise takes his hand and bam! It was a big guy. Shoved me onto the ground, I hit my head." A police report has been filed.

The film is a portrayal of President Bush and his administration. Filmmaker Michael Moore admits Fahrenheit 9/11 is his personal attack on the President and intends to change voters' minds. The President's supporters say the movie is being used for propaganda.


Name:   NEWSFLASH
In response to:
The film is a portrayal of President Bush and his administration. Filmmaker Michael Moore admits Fahrenheit 9/11 is his personal attack on the President and intends to change voters' minds. The President's supporters say the movie is being used for propaganda.

Message:
For propaganda?

It is noithing BUT propaganda!


Name:   Julie U+U+V
To:   ET and Smedley

Re:   American treatment of Human-Beings (sic)
In response to:
Do you remember me???? A year ago I expressed my total discust at American torture of people. You two thought that American abuse of Apaches and just about all other human beings was just part of the game. Shame on you two.

****Losen and Geronimo**** would be appalled.

Message:

****Losen and the other Apaches**** knew when Americans began torturing Prisoners of War.





            THIS IS WHAT'S ALWAYS BEEN WRONG WITH

            -------------------------------------

                THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

                ----------------------------





     "The [U.S. Central Intelligence (sic) Agency and\or]

     C.I.A. [in about 1962] set about trying to break Yuri

     Nosenko [of the Soviet Komitet Gosuderstvennoy

     Bezopasnost (Committee of State Security) and\or

     K.G.B.] using methods of imprisonment and physical

     pressure which would never have been tolerated in

     British MI5 [Section Five of Military Intelligence

     (The Security Service - don't use the initials:  S.S.,

     however)].  But even by 1967 they [Nancin] were no

     nearer to solving the riddle [of the authenticity of

     Mr. Nosenko's defection to the the U.S.A.]."



     "There was, in the end, a fundamental difference in

     approach.  Both F. J. [Furnival Jones] and  [Sir

     Richard Goldsmith White] saw themselves as servants of

     the Crown, and their services as part of the orderly,

     timeless configuration of Whitehall.  They were

     insiders, whereas [Richard] Helms [C.I.A.], [James

     Jesus] Angleton [C.I.A.], and [J. Edgar] Hoover

     [Federal Bureau of Investigation (sic) and\or F.B.I.]

     were all outsiders [as were the Nancin settlers, U.S.

     Army Major Tiffany, and U.S. Army Colonel Carr in

     Apacheria].  There was a streak of ruthlessness and

     lawlessness about the American intelligence [sic]

     community (sic) which disturbed many in the senior

     echelons of British Intelligence.  They feared a

     future calamity, and wanted to keep their distance, so

     inevitably the weight of liaison often fell on the

     shoulders of officers like me [Peter Wright]."



     --SPY CATCHER:  THE CANDID AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A SENIOR

     --INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, 1987, Peter Wright [written]

     --with Paul Greengrass



     --Viking Press



     If anyone reads just a few books about the Indeh and

     current American foreign policy, one will be able to

     easily predict future calamities.  The US did not

     become a sociopathic society in the last quarter of

     the 20th Century C.E.  It was sociopathic from the

     beginning.  The former leaders of the US establishment

     were to blame for the genocide of Native Americans and

     the enslavement of Africans.  These two policies were

     the foundation of the U.S.A. and the current leaders

     of the American establishment are responsible for

     overcoming this psychopathic culture of rape.

     --Eochaidh MacDhalaigh OghaChruithne, 2004



     "Say, what was your name in the States?

     Was it Brown or Jackson or Bates?

     Did you murder your wife and fly for your life?"

     Say, what was your name in the States?"



     --GERONIMO:  HIS OWN STORY, 1996, as told to S.M.

     --Barrett, newly revised and edited (G.H.O.S.)



     --Viking Press


Name:   Eochaidh MacDhalaigh OghaChruithne
To:   Julie U+U+V

Re:   Ordinary Americans' Lack of Empathy
In response to:
Do we blame the Establishment (Babylon), the Leaders of the Establishment, or ordinary Germans. Ordinary Germans didn't get rid of the Nazis. It took the Brits to set things right. What do we do about the attempted genocide and war crimes committed against the Apaches and Iraqis????

Message:

Spot on Julie. Lord Goldsmith, the British Attorney General, is once again demonstrating that ordinary Americans "can't see the forest for the trees."

Once again, the International Community will have to stop Fascism.

Bat Gurl's web-page documenting the ****Rape, Murder, and Genocide**** committed by the American Establishment is so current and insightful.

It's really easy to predict American behaviour!!!!


Name:   Espresso Kyle
Message:
You - Me

inamorato?


Name:   Kyle E
To:    Julie U+U+V

Message:
What say?


Name:   Actual Reality
To:   Eochaidh MacDhalaigh OghaChruithne, Julie U+U+V

Re:   Why we hate white America crapola
Message:
Now that the peyote buzz has started to subside and then nasty frybread & Budweiser sweat from the months spent in the sweat-lodge has permeated your pea brains, do you think you could get with the important issues facing the America (you know, the country you inhabit)

In case you have not noticed, there are Islamo-Fascists that want to kill us because we are not muslims and we don't wear dirty night shirts and we don't saw off innocent peoples heads.

I know, I know, you poor oppressed indians, blah, blah, blah... They want you dead just as much as us.

Please get with the program, you nut bars


Name:   Rex Reed
To:   Bruce, Ken, Scotty, Steve, Kyle, etc.

Re:   Moore mud on your hammer
Message:
One Group That's Not Polarized (because every last one of them is freaking gay!!!): 9 out of 10 Film Reviewers for Daily Papers Back 'Fahrenheit'

NEW YORK They like Mike. While the country as a whole appears split, along political lines, over the controversial Michael Moore documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11," movie reviewers at U.S. daily newspapers are not.

An E & P survey of 63 daily papers that ran reviews, in "red" and "blue" states alike, finds that 56 gave the film a positive nod, with only 7 abstaining, an almost 90% favorable rating.

The seven in the "anti" camp were: Detroit Free Press, Denver Rocky Mountain News, San Jose Mercury-News, New York Post, South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Philadelphia Daily News and the Charlotte Observer.

Among the "pro" crowd were reviewers from moderate to conservative papers such as the Boston Herald, Los Angeles Daily News, San Diego Union-Tribune and Las Vegas Review-Journal.

Many of the positive reviews expressed reservations but overall weighed in on the plus side.

Among the few negatives, Phoebe Flowers in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel called the film "hyperbolic hysteria," and Lawrence Toppmann in the Charlotte Observer observed that Moore "rakes muck like nobody else, but almost as much of it sticks to him as to his subject."

But they were drowned out by praise, not only from some of the expected big city papers but from smaller towns. Boo Allen of the Denton Record Chronicle in Texas referred to "Maestro Moore." Philip Martin in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette called the film "tough and true," while James Sanford in the Kalamazoo Gazette found it to be a "skillfully" directed "two-hour indictment."

Mary Pols in the Contra Costa(Ca.) Times pretty much covered the waterfront in calling the film "passionate, clever, scathing, funny, snarky, brutal, sad, glib and at times superficial."


Name:   Vince
Message:
foooooossssttttteeeeerrrrr


Name:   NuTone
Message:
My mistake, but I followed the Hersch piece (see below) with Michael Ignatieff's from today's New York Times Sunday Magazine: "Mirage in the Desert."

Read it, but only after reading this from Major David Bellon before you begin the Ignatieff article, and this from Major Bellon after you are through.  Then you will have bookends from reality to surround this puff-piece of posturing from Cambridge.

Professor Ignatieff announces in his piece that  "the United States did one thing well in Iraq, and nobody else could have done it --overthrew a dictator.  Everything else was badly done, and some of what was done -- Abu Ghraid -- was a moral disgrace and a strategic catastrophe."

The professor concludes many other silly things, and in overwritten prose that wouldn't make a high school editorial, but this paragraph should haunt him for the rest of his no doubt distinguished career.  "One thing well?"  "Everything else was badly done" --everthing else?  How about the unearthing of those mass graves?  How about the cessation of a state-sponsored killing spree that National Geographic estimates at having snuffed out the lives of 5 million Iraqis, minimum, over 20 years?  How about the return of worship rights to the Shias, or the surgeries for those whose hands were severed by Saddam's secret police?  How about the disarming of Libya of its WMDs, or the busting up of the A.Q. Khan network?  Was it a bad thing to end Saddam's oil-for-food-for-bribes scam?  To rebuild thousands of schools?  To dismantle the secret police?

One good thing?  Everything else badly done?  With a new government arriving, and Zarqawi running as opposed to sunning himself?  With Abu Nidal dead and the pay-offs to the suicide bombers in Jerusalem halted?

Professor Ignatieff has written a biography of Isaiah Berlin.  It took him ten years.  He has written a play for television.  He has thought long and hard about Kosovo.  He has tenure at Harvard.  He is clearly a very, very serious man, whose thoughts are to be taken very, very seriously.

But what a fool to display his moral incoherence for the world to see, and in the New York Times no less.

The Michael Moores, the Ignatieffs and the Herschs have zero impact on policy, I know, and should be simply occasions for this generation's Tom Wolfe to recall Leonard Bernstein and the Black Panthers.

But moral incoherence on this level is beyond foolishness, and signals that a part of the elite has simply lost all ability to judge good and evil.  In this respect it is like the Vietnam conflict, when the Ignatieffs of that era were proclaiming Pol Pot an agrarian reformer, and the North Vietnamese liberators.  That era's foolishness wasn't harmless.  It cost millions of lives.  Every one of which deserved saving.  The Ignatieffs of thirty years ago never owned up to their compliciity in the deaths of millions.  This time around, we shouldn't allow tweedy indifference to the suffering of peoples far away to go unchallenged.


Name:   Good News
Message:
U.S. Transfers Sovereignty to Iraqi Govt.

Jun 28, 9:05 AM (ET)

By TAREK EL-TABLAWY
(AP) ALTERNATIVE CROP FROM BAG107 - U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer, right, hands a document to...
Full Image

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The U.S.-led coalition transferred sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government two days early Monday in a surprise move that apparently caught insurgents off guard, averting a feared campaign of attacks to sabotage the highly symbolic step toward self-rule.

Legal documents transferring sovereignty were handed over by U.S. governor L. Paul Bremer to chief justice Midhat al-Mahmood in a small ceremony in the heavily guarded Green Zone. Bremer took charge in Iraq about a year ago.

"This is a historical day ... a day that all Iraqis have been looking forward to," said Iraqi President Ghazi Al-Yawer. "This is a day we are going to take our country back into the international forum."

Militants had conducted a campaign of car bombings, kidnappings and other violence that killed hundreds of Iraqis in recent weeks and was designed to disrupt the transfer, announced by the Bush administration late last year. Intially, the Americans were thought to have planned for about one more year of occupation.

The response in Baghdad was mixed.

"Iraqis are happy inside, but their happiness is marred by fear and melancholy," said artist Qassim al-Sabti. "Of course I feel I'm still occupied. You can't find anywhere in the world people who would accept occupation. America these days, is like death. Nobody can escape from it."

Two hours after the ceremony Bremer left Iraq on a U.S. Air Force C-130, said Robert Tappan, an official of the former coalition occupation authority. Bremer was accompanied by coalition spokesman Dan Senor and close members of his staff. Bremer's destination was not given, but an aide said he was "going home."

The new interim government was sworn in six hours after the handover ceremony, which Western governments largely hailed as a necessary next step. The Arab world voiced cautious optimism, but maintained calls for the U.S. military to leave the country quickly.

Allawi delivered a sweeping speech sketching out some of his goals for the country, urging people not to be afraid of the "outlaws" fighting against "Islam and Muslims," assuring them that "God is with us."

"I warn the forces of terror once again," he said. "We will not forget who stood with us and against us in this crisis."

Members of Allawi's Cabinet each stepped forward to place their right hand on the Quran and pledged to accept their new duties with sincerity and impartiality. Behind them, a bank of Iraqi flags lined the podium.

"Before us is a challenge and a burden and we ask God almighty to give us the patience and guide us to take this country whose people deserves all goodness," said President Ghazi al-Yawer after taking his oath. "May God protect Iraq and its citizens."

The NATO alliance quickly said it would begin training the Iraqi military, which faces a daunting task in putting down the growing insurgency threatening the country.

President Bush marked the transfer with a whispered comment and a handshake with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, gathered with world leaders around a table at a NATO summit in Istanbul, Turkey.

Stealing a glance at his watch to make sure the transfer had occurred, Bush put his hand over his mouth to guard his remarks, leaned toward Blair and then reached out to shake hands. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, a row behind the president, beamed.

Bush was briefed Sunday that the Allawi government was ready to take power early.

The early transfer had been under discussion between Allawi and U.S. officials for at least a week, a senior administration official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Bremer's last moments in Iraq were spent in a meeting with Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the top American commander in the country.

Although the interim government will have full sovereignty, it will operate under major restrictions - some of them imposed at the urging of the influential Shiite clergy which sought to limit the powers of an unelected administration.

For example, the interim government will only hold power seven months until, as directed by a United Nations Security Council resolution, there must be elections "in no case later than" Jan. 31. The Americans will still hold responsibility for security. And the interim government will not be able to amend the interim constitution. That document outlines many civil liberties guarantees that would make problematic a declaration of emergency.

As Iraq's highest authority, Bremer had issued more than 100 orders and regulations, many of them Western-style laws governing everything from bankruptcy and traffic, to restrictions on child labor and copying movies.

Some are likely to be ignored. One law requires at least a month in jail for people caught driving without a license - something many Iraqis do not have. Another demands that drivers stay in a single lane, a rule widely ignored in Iraq's chaotic streets.

Others are more controversial. On Saturday, Bremer signed an edict that gave U.S. and other Western civilian contractors immunity from Iraqi law while performing their jobs in Iraq. The idea outrages many Iraqis who said the law allows foreigners to act with impunity even after the occupation.

A Bremer elections law restricts certain candidates from running for office, banning parties with links to militias, for instance.

The Coalition Provisional Authority's laws remain in effect after the occupation ends unless rescinded or revised by the interim government, a task that another Bremer-signed law allows, but only after a difficult process.

The new government's major tasks will be to prepare for elections, handle the day-to-day running of the country and work along with the U.S.-led multinational force, which is responsible for security. The Iraqis can in principle ask the foreign troops to leave - although that is unlikely.

However, the United States and its partners hoped that the transfer of sovereignty would serve as a psychological boost for Iraqis, who have been increasingly frustrated by and hostile to foreign military occupation. U.S. officials hope that Iraqis will believe that they are now in control of their country and that will take the steam out of the insurgency.

With the transfer, the Iraqis now face the daunting task of securing law and order with the help of about 135,000 U.S. troops and about 20,000 more from other coalition countries.

The handover ceremony took place in a formal room with Louis XIV furniture in an office in the building formerly used by the Iraqi Governing Council. Officials were seated in gilded chairs around a table, in the center of which was a bowl of flowers with a small Iraqi flag in it.

Just before the handover, everyone stood up, and documents were passed to the chief justice at 10:26 a.m. local time - at that point, legal sovereignty was passed.

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the coalition deputy operations chief, was the only U.S. military official present.

"We'd like to express our thanks to the coalition," al-Yawer said. "There is no way to turn back now."

Bremer, wearing a dark suit and a blue tie with small white dots, read the transfer document, which was inside a blue folder. With a laugh, he referred to himself as the "ex-administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority."

Allawi stood on his right and al-Yawer on his left.

"The Iraqi government is determined to hold elections at the scheduled date, which is January next year," Allawi said in Arabic. He had told CBS television network that the election might be delayed if the security situation did not approve.

There was little initial public reaction to the near-secret transfer ceremony, which was broadcast on Iraqi and Arabic satellite television stations. There was no celebratory gunfire - which rattles through Baghdad when Iraq's national soccer team defeats foreign clubs.

Workers were cleaning the area on Firdous Square where the statue of Saddam Hussein was hauled down on April 9, 2003, when Baghdad fell. More police were seen in the streets.

Coalition officials said Bush had already sent a letter to al-Yawer formally requesting diplomatic relations.

"You have said, and we agreed, that you are ready for sovereignty," Bremer said in the ceremony. "I will leave Iraq confident in its future."


Name:   Forum 1185 is open
Message:
Forum 1185 is open


Name:   Hugh Hewitt
In response to:

"Who do you want in charge of containing Iran's nuclear ambitions? Bush or Kerry? If you answered Kerry, then you aren't serious about stopping Iran, and if you aren't serious about keeping nukes out of the mullahs' hands, then you aren't serious about Israel. Period."

Message:

I interviewed Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage on a wide range of subjects this morning, and will broadcast the interview on this afternoon's program in the first and third hours. There's plenty of substance to hear, but I underscore his response to one question. I asked him if there was any doubt in his mind that Iran was intent on obtaining nuclear weapons. His answer was a definitive "No."

Who do you want in charge of containing Iran's nuclear ambitions? Bush or Kerry? If you answered Kerry, then you aren't serious about stopping Iran, and if you aren't serious about keeping nukes out of the mullahs' hands, then you aren't serious about Israel. Period.

 

Here's a transcript of my interview with Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage:

 

Hewitt: Now, welcome to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. Mr. Secretary, welcome to the Hugh Hewitt Show. It’s great to have you.

Armitage: Thank you, Mr. Hewitt. It’s good to be with you.

Hewitt: Prestige newspapers as I go through them this morning all seem dismissive after the transfer of sovereignty in Baghdad as though it were not a major event. How significant was the handover yesterday?

Armitage: First of all, what matters is what people in Baghdad and Iraq at large think and they seem to think it was a significant, indeed a momentous day. Secondarily, the people in the region, the Saudis, the Kuwaitis, etc., found it a momentous day and, in fact, Kuwait reestablished relationship with Iraq immediately after 14 years.

Hewitt: Now why then is our media so intent on running it down? The Los Angeles Times for example is calling it an “an inauguration on the run,” the Post, the New York Times all sort of quibbling with the details.

Armitage: Mr. Hewitt, it seems to me this is like a perversion of, or a political Gresham’s law. Gresham’s law says that bad money drives good money out of the market place and bad news drives good news out of the political market place. I think that’s what you are seeing.

Hewitt: Let’s get to the more important question. Victor Davis Hanson wrote yesterday that “the key, of course, will be the United States to stay engaged as it did in Korea and the Balkans – and not flee as it did in Vietnam circa 1974-5.” Mr. Secretary, are we going to be sticking there?

Armitage: Damn right.

Hewitt: For as long as it takes?

Armitage: That’s what the President says. He’s got the courage, he’s got the patience, we’ve got the will. We’re going to be respectful and support our friend of Iraq. They deserve nothing less from the United States and the world at large.

Hewitt: The new Prime Minister Mr. Allawi has come under some attack, especially Seymour Hersch in the latest New Yorker article has leveled both barrels at him. Why the attack on Allawi and what’s your assessment of his skills at this point?

Armitage: I find him a very good political operative. I know him fairly well. He’s a stand-up courageous man and I think that’s what people ought to focus on. This is a guy who has survived a terrible assassination attempt. His poor wife has been hospitalized because of the trauma of those repeated attempts and here’s a guy that’s standing up. That’s what we ought to concentrate on.

Hewitt: Harvard professor Michael Ignatieff wrote in the New York Times Magazine this weekend that that the U.S. had done one thing well – get rid of Saddam-- and everything else badly. How do you respond to a critique like that in the nation’s most important newspaper?

Armitage: I’d say that it’s not over. If we pull off with the assistance of the international community and particularly the United Nations, an election in December or January 2005 as we’re trying to do, that will be one of the more monumental occurrences in the Middle East in several hundred years.

Hewitt: Now Zarqawi, of course, is dedicated to making that not happen. Any chance of accelerating the election timetable? If the interim government wanted to do so would the United States support that?

Armitage: We would support to the extent possible anything the interim government wanted to do, but I think the United Nations has come to the conclusion that they're are on as fast a track that the traffic will bear now and it looks like December or January.

Hewitt: Now, there’s a new film out Michael Moore’s movie. Have you seen it yet, Mr. Secretary?

Armitage: Oh, no. (laughing) I work 24/7.

Hewitt: It’s got a lot of shots of your boss, Secretary of State Powell in it. One of them is U.N. speech mentioning the connection between Saddam’s Iraq and Al Qaeda. You stand by that assessment that the Secretary delivered at the U.N. last year.

Armitage: Well, he was disappointed in the quality of the intelligence that was provided to him. In retrospect now that we know a lot more, but I certainly stand by the contention that Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein had had contact. There is no question about it. I think the 9/11 Commission came out of the same place.

Hewitt: Now on Friday, the Vice President told Fox News’ Neil Cavuto that the United States had once ed Saddam to Zarqawi’s presence in Baghdad, using a third country as an intermediary, meaning that Saddam knew that Zarqawi was there and did nothing to stop him. Do you agree with the Vice President’s assessment of that?

Armitage: Well I remember that we did pass word. Whether it got to Saddam Hussein, I can’t say. I have no knowledge of that. We passed word to the Iraqis.

Hewitt: Any doubt in your mind that Zarqawi is an associate of Al Qaeda?

Armitage: No.

Hewitt: And any doubt in your mind that he was operating in Baghdad prior to the war?

Armitage: Ah, whether he was in Baghdad or in the North up in the area of Ansar al-Islam inhabited, I couldn’t be quite clear on. I know he was up North, I just can’t say if he was in Baghdad. Personally, I don’t know.

Hewitt: Mr. Secretary: Do you think he’s in Fallujah today?

Armitage: I think he was in Fallujah and he has been. We’ve tried a couple of times in a precision way to take him out. I don’t know where he is today.

Hewitt: If the interim government asked the United States to subdue Fallujah, would an offensive be reinitiated there?

Armitage: Well, I think we’d be asking them to assist us, but I think it’s a practical matter. It was previous interim government that had talked us out of a more heavy-handed approach to Fallujah. I don’t think it’s very likely.

Hewitt: Is it getting worse there or is it stable there?

Armitage: No, I think there is relative stability, but I think, as I understand it, and look at some of the intelligence, time seems to be running out for the foreigners there. The information that we get is the people are not very enthusiastic or let me put it another way, their enthusiasm is under control, for the foreigners who are causing so much trouble for Fallujah.

Hewitt: Have the borders with Syria and Iran effectively been secured so that additional foreign insurgents cannot enter the country?

Armitage: No, Mr. Hewitt.

Hewitt: How big is that problem?

Armitage: It’s a big problem. It’s getting a little better. In Syria we’ve had more cooperation—a slight bit more with the Syrians lately, much less with the Iranians. There’s also a bit of a problem from Saudi Arabia. Though the government of Saudi Arabia is working the issue mightily to try and stop traffic both ways.

Hewitt: Now, the new Iraqis security service – is it 10 percent, 50 percent, 75 percent there?

Armitage: I don’t know that I could put a percentage, but it’s in the process.

Hewitt: Alright. The Seymour Hersch article argues that the Israelis are in Kurdistan training the Kurds for use in counter insurgency operations and for intervention in Iran. Any truth to that?

Armitage: No comment. You ought to ask the Israelis.

Hewitt: (Laugh.) We’ll try that. Yellowcake is back in the news, Mr. Secretary. The Financial Times is reporting that in fact Saddam did try and purchase enriched uranium from African countries. Any comment on that report?

Armitage: You know, I saw that in the FT in my morning take. I had no more knowledge of it. We had through our Ambassadors several years ago looked at it very closely and we found no information.

Hewitt: Alright. I want to go back to one more thing on the Michael Moore movie since it’s sort of dominating . . .

Armitage Sure . . .

Hewitt: Michael Moore makes a big deal about Prince Bandar dining at the White House on September 13. (A) is that unusual, and (B) is it a source of controversy?

Armitage: There is no controversy here. Prince Bandar is the Dean of the Ambassador Corps, well known, favorably known to us for years and years, to all of us. So, I find nothing unusual and controversial in it.

Hewitt: Are we winning the war on terror, Mr. Secretary?

Armitage: I think if you look at the international support, the international contributions to the war, you’d have to conclude we’re winning. If you look at the U.N. Security Council resolutions devoted to tying up terrorist financing, you’d have to conclude we’re winning. Having said that, this is going to be a long and a difficult slog the President has prepared the nation for and we just have to steel ourselves.

Hewitt: Let’s turn to where Mr. Powell is today. The Secretary is going to Sudan and will allegedly visit Darfur, the area were genocide is underway. What’s the message that he’s taking to the Sudanese government?

Armitage: Knock it off. Stop the Janjaweed from creating these terrible travesties and commissions of crimes on the people of the region, allow humanitarian and other assistance into the Darfur region. He’ll be really strong and he is going to Darfur.

Hewitt: Now, would you explain to the American people that are at least listening to this how serious the situation is in that area of Sudan.

Armitage: Well, it’s quite clear that thousands and thousands of people have been displaced from their homes where villages have been burned and Arab villages which are right next door have been left untouched. So, there is certainly a high degree of death and devastation that is being perpetrated. Whether it is genocide in fact, is something that we discuss with the other international partners. Just by the way, Secretary General Kofi Annan will be in Sudan. He’s so concerned of the situation as we are, Secretary Powell and the Secretary General will be meeting to discuss it.

Hewitt: Is there enough resolve in the international community that if Sudan does not bring these rouge militias under control that there would be an intervention there to prevent a Rwanda-style repeat of massacre?

Armitage: Well, I’ll say from the United States’ point of view if it is necessary, we will do all that is necessary to try and build up the international resolve. We’d like to get this situation stopped and stabilized right now so we don’t have to go to an international stabilization force.

Hewitt: Now, Sudan, of course, was the original nesting place for Al Qaeda. Has it resolved to become a normal member of the league of states now or is it still something of a rouge regime?

Armitage: Well, I don’t think it’s a rouge regime any longer and I think the recent agreement to a framework agreement for peace on the 20-year civil war between North and South is a significant event and it shows that the government of Sudan wants to play a more responsible role. Ah, but I must say their activities in failing to rein in the Janjaweed in Darfur throws some real questions I think into the minds of the United States and the international community about how much of a responsible role they’re willing to play.

Hewitt: Mr. Secretary, we always seem to find where Al Qaeda has nested after the fact and after they’ve been rousted. Where are you concerned that they are putting down tentacles now?

Armitage: That they are putting down tentacles in East Africa, possibly in the tri-border area of South America. We’ve worried for some time that they are trying to establish some grounding in Indianisa – but I must say, at least for Southeast Asia, the recent elections there show the people while embracing Islam is eschewing fundamentalism and radicalism.

Hewitt: Let’s skip over to South East Asia and to the Korean Peninsula now, Mr. Secretary. The North Korean talks are underway. Allegedly, the North Koreans rejected the offer that the United States put on the table in the 6-way contact. Is that correct?

Armitage: No. First of all, the talks are over and I’ve spoken to our chief negotiator twice in the last two days about this matter. Both sides put new proposals forward. They indicated that they’d have to take these back to their Capitols and study them. Last night I met with the Japanese to discuss these matters. We’re very satisfied where we are. We think the North Koreans will owe us an answer. We’ve agreed to have talks, I believe it is September, so we’re in pretty good shape.

Hewitt: Do you expect that there will be any significant movement before the election or will the North Koreans wait it out to see if they are dealing with President Bush or President Kerry?

Armitage: You know what, you ought to ask that question to Pyongyang. I think they were a little surprised that we were showing some flexibility and the ball is in their court and we’ll wait until they answer.

Hewitt: What flexibility did we show, Mr. Secretary?

Armitage: We indicated that as long at the end of the day there is a complete dismantlement of the nuclear weapons program, we’re prepared to be a little flexible on such things as delivery of energy and things of that nature.

Hewitt: Is there any way ever to verify what the regime would represent to us given their long standing history—I mean they were cheating before the deal was dry. . .

Armitage: They were cheating in ’94 and as you say before the deal was dry. It would take a very intrusive regime to be able to have confidence in the verification but the fact that we have the five neighbors involved with a common view toward the need to denuclearize the peninsula, I think you can have some degree to confidence that the pressure won’t be let up with the North Koreans.

 

Hewitt: Is Beijing assisting us to the level that you would expect the situation?

Armitage: Yeah. Secretary Powell and the President have congratulated and expressed our gratitude to the leadership in Beijing. They are doing it for their reasons, it’s in their interest, but none the less, it is a mighty labor and we’re appreciatative.

Hewitt: Let’s turn our attention to Iran where the other nuclear problem is unfolding. Is there a plan here for dealing with continued intransigence by the Iranians?

Armitage: For instance, without going into too much detail, Secretary Powell recently met with Dr. El Baradei of the IAEA. We’re working very closely with the EU Ministers, primarily the three that we refer to as the EU3, the French, the Germans and the British. They were the ones who first brought forward an Iranian agreement to be forthcoming to the IAEA. And so we believe in the first instance that the burden is on them to work it out.

Hewitt: Would there be a move to the United Nations Security Council for sanctions if they do not make this happen quickly?

Armitage: Well, I think ultimately we have another board meeting first of all in September and another in November with the IAEA and I think most probably the international community will keep the pressure on and the spotlight on Iran and ultimately we do have the option. I’m a guy--and I don’t know about you--but I don’t like to ask a question the answer to which I do not already know. So, I’d want to make sure that if we move to sanctions that we’ve got everybody on board.

Hewitt: Any doubt in your mind that Iran is attempting to develop nuclear weapons?

Armitage: No.

Hewitt: And what kind of timeline do you think they have with success on the horizon. Are they six months away, a year away . . .

Armitage: I don’t even care to speculate on that, Mr. Hewitt.S

Hewitt: Alright. Let’s turn finally to the Middle East, Mr. Secretary to Israel and the Palestinians. Any chance to seeing any movement there other than unilateral Israelis action?

Armitage: Ah, the Gaza withdrawal suggested by Mr. Sharon, in our view, represents a real opportunity for some movement and I know our Egyptian friends have been very involved with the Israelis and in that process have reinvigorated their own relationship. I think if we keep the pressure on all parties to work out the withdrawal, you could have for the first time a Palestinian entity which recovers 21 settlements in Gaza and 4 in the West Bank. You could make some real progress. It appears that many of the Palestinian community are saying “Let’s not keep saying no, no, no all the time. Maybe we ought to find a way to say yes.”

Hewitt: Is there a new leadership on the West Bank that the United States has confidence in?

Armitage: Well, we have confidence in various members, individual members of the Palestinian Authority, but at the end of the day, we come back to the question of how much authority that they are granted by Mr. Arafat. He’s not going to let go. If he’s not going to let the Palestinian Authority take the responsibility for everything from security to economics then, as a body, you can’t put much confidence in them.

Hewitt: ` Is he still uniquely in control of the Palestinian establishment?

Armitage: Yes.

Hewitt: Final questions about politics, Mr. Secretary. You’ve been through a lot of Presidential elections while in office. Has the rhetoric on the other side of the aisle in Congress surprise you as we run up to November? I’m thinking of Senator Kennedy and others who have been talking about the next war will be a nuclear war and things like that?

Armitage: No. (laugh) I worked on the Reagan Carter campaign and I’ve been through every Presidential campaign since it seems to me that the closer we get the hotter it gets and the more the rhetoric rises. So, no it doesn’t surprise me at all. I think it doesn’t surprise the American people. They can see through this.

Hewitt: I saw Ambassador Holbrooke on the O’Reilly program last night again blasting President Bush and the Administration for failing to have sufficient international cooperation in Iraq. Do you watch such things? What’s going through your mind?

Armitage: Well, first of all, I realize the duty of the opposition is to oppose, but he’s had his opportunity and they I think they failed to step up on some occasions. Rwanda does come to mind. My own view is that we’ve got 31 other countries involved with us in Iraq. We’ve got a mighty coalition with as many as 60 involved overall in Afghanistan. We put together a really successful intervention in Liberia and in Haiti and I think history is going to judge us pretty well.

Hewitt: Last question, Mr. Secretary. Any doubt in your mind that the Libyan disarmament was connected to the invasion of Iraq and the successful war there?

Armitage: I think it was one of several factors. That was one. Another was that we had, along with some other international friends, stopped the shipment of nuclear-related materials and I’m sure that got Colonel Qaddaf’s attention. At the end of the day, that’s almost 20 years as a pariah state and his attempt to develop nuclear weapons wasn’t paying any dividends to him at all.

Hewitt: Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for spending so much time. I very much appreciate it. I look forward to it again.

Armitage: Thank you, Mr. Hewitt.


Name:   CBS
To:   marshmellows

Re:   meltdown
Message:

Radio IMC

Michael Moore takes on CBS

Wednesday, Jun. 30, 2004 at 1:39 PM

From CBS

audio: MP3 at 6.1 mebibytes

Audio from
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/25/earlyshow/leisure/celebspot/main626088.shtml

between Michael Moore and CBS’s Hannah Storm:
http://amsam.org/2004/06/moore-gives-it-to-cbs.html

    Storm: "So this is satire and not documentary? We shouldn’t see this as-"
     Moore: "It’s a satirical documentary."
     Storm: "Some have said propaganda, do you buy that? Op-ed?"
     Moore: "No, I consider the CBS Evening News propaganda. What I do is-"
     Storm: "We’ll move beyond on that."
     Moore: "Why? Let’s not move beyond that."
     Storm: "You know what?"
     Moore: "Seriously."
     Storm: "No, let’s talk about your movie."
     Moore: "But why don’t we talk about the Evening News on this network and
the other networks that didn’t do the job they should have done at the
beginning of this war?"
     Storm: "You know what?"
    Moore: "Demanded the evidence, ask the hard questions-"
     Storm: "Okay."
     Moore: "-we may not of even gone into this war had these networks done
their job. I mean, it was a great disservice to the American people because we
depend on people who work here and the other networks to go after those in
power and say 'Hey, wait a minute. You want to send our kids off to war, we
want to know where those weapons of mass destruction are. Let’s see the proof.
Let’s see the proof that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11.’"
     Storm: "But-"
    Moore: "There was no proof and everybody just got embedded and everybody
rolled over and everybody knows that now."
     Storm: "Michael, the one thing that journalists try to do is to present
both sides of the story. And it could be argued that you did not do that in
this movie."
     Moore: "I certainly didn’t. I presented my side-"
     Storm: "You presented your side of the story."
     Moore: "Because my side, that’s the side of millions of Americans, rarely
gets told. And so, all I’m, look, this is just a humble plea on my behalf and
not to you personally, Hannah. But I’m just saying to journalists in general
that instead of working so hard to tell both sides of the story, why don’t you
just tell that one side, which is the administration, why don’t you ask them
the hard questions-"
    Storm: "Which I think is something that we all try to do."
     Moore: "Well, I think it was a lot of cheerleading going on at the
beginning of this war-"
    Storm: "Alright."
     Moore: "A lot of cheerleading and it didn’t do the public any good to have
journalists standing in front of the camera going 'whoop-dee-do, let’s all go
to war’. And, and it’s not their kids going to war. It’s not the children of
the news executives going to war-"
     Storm: "Michael, why don’t you do you next movie about networks news, okay?
Because this movie-"
     Moore: "I know, I think I should do that movie."
     Storm: "-because this movie is an attack on the president and his
policies."
    Moore: "Well, and it also points out how the networks failed us at the
beginning of this war and didn’t do their job."


Name:   HILLARY SUPPORTER
Message:

YOU GO GIRL!


VICE PRESIDENT HILLARY; SPECULATION INTENSIFIES IN WASHINGTON


Name:   Max Candor
To:   The Beguiled

Re:   Socialism is THEFT. Theft of substance, theft of opportunity, theft of freedom.
In response to:
The more you crack the books, the more likely it is you'll shoot off to the right or the left.

Message:
The Dopes in the middle don't know the score. The Left loves Dopes, because they are easily manipulated and exploited. Dopes are an asset to the Left. Dopes are a liabilty to the Right and to themselves, because Dopes tend to vote to empower the Left to expand its robbery and exploitation of everyone else.


Name:   doomed
To:   whoever edits this forum

In response to:
"Many of you are well enough off that ... the tax cuts may have helped you," Sen. Clinton said. "We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

Message:
I guess when you tell 'ole hillary where she can stuff her common good and call her a friggin communist you get deleted. So much for free speech that liberals ballyhoo about. The world according to hillary is us common and wealthy folk in bondage fueled by the common good according to her for the have nots who could have if they'd get off their butts and go to work, who would take responsibilty and not have children they cannot afford. America IS on track hillary it is you who wants to derail it and turn it into a cradle to grave, let government provide country. Why don't you move to Sweden and run for president or better yet, how about Mars. BUSH IN 2004......DEPORT THE S


Name:   doomed
Message:
s


Name:   American
To:   Khobar

Re:   Multi-theater WAR.
In response to:
Do remind us which Iraqis joined in the attack on 9/11. Do remind which weapons Saddam possessed which were capable of striking at the US. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
Remind me which weapons Afghanistan possessed which were capable of striking America. Also, please provide the name or names of the country(s) ruled by Al Qaeda.


Name:   doomed
Message:
.....also looks like Clin___toons is a forbidden word on this forum. Hey, but its OK to call conservatives vile names. What a joke this forum is. C L I N T O O N S>>>>>>>deport them


Name:   Observant
To:   Khobar, who is a liar.

In response to:
Instead, we have an attempt to scapegoat the few who got caught in the act

Message:
Heaven forbid that anyone should attempt to prosecute THE PERPETRATORS!


Name:   doomed
Message:
......with Socialism everybody gets to share in the misery...except, of course those who are on the top of the feeding chain, that we as tax payers pay with our hard earned tax dollars to dole out the misery...that's hillary,,,no doubt about it.


Name:   World Citizen
Re:   republican Dirty Tricks
Message:

Kerry Rules Out Opening Records of 1988 Divorce
 

PHOENIX, Ariz. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) on Tuesday rejected any suggestion that he release records of his 1988 divorce, calling it old history that had nothing to do with anyone else.
Photo
Reuters Photo
 

"I have no intention of doing that at all," Kerry said during a campaign stop in Phoenix, Arizona, when a reporter asked if he would release the papers from his divorce from his first wife Julia Thorn.

 

In a U.S. senate race in Illinois, Republican candidate Jack Ryan quit his campaign last week after the Chicago Tribune and other media sued to have his sealed divorce records made public.

The papers revealed that his ex-wife had accused him of asking her to have sex with him in front of strangers at a club.

Kerry, who will try to unseat President Bush (news - web sites) in November, said there was no reason for him to release his divorce records.

"It's history, ancient history. My ex-wife and I are terrific friends, very proud of our children. We have stayed close through those years as an extended family," the Massachusetts senator said, adding, "It's none of anybody's business, period."

Kerry is now married to Teresa Heinz Kerry.


Name:   doomed
To:   n

In response to:
Remind me which weapons Afghanistan possessed which were capable of striking America. Also, please provide the name or names of the country(s) ruled by Al Qaeda.

Message:
You know damned well Bin ladens group was training in Afganistan. You know damned well that Al Qaeda does not rule any country, but infests them as terrorists. You are so out to lunch and your head is screwed on so backward that I'm ready to send you some gift certificates to McDonalds and call Father Karas.


Name:   magpie
In response to:
And millions of kids are raised in what amount to political ghettoes.

Message:
or the demo plantation. or the village. or whatever you want to call it.


Name:   World Citizen
Re:   More republican Dirty Tricks
In response to:
KERRY/CLINTON '04

Message:

 

Lessons in Lowell

 

Kerry, with his first wife, Julia Thorne, celebrating his win in the 1972 primary. Kerry buried the field of Democrats with