| Name: | Change the Tone |
| Name: | Scroll Mouse |
| To: | change the tone |
| Re: | flash backs |
Message:
Team Clinton
The Starting Line-Up of the
Pro-Clinton
Press Corps
August 1, 1996
|
"[Bush] is about to make matters
worse by hauling out Ronald Reagan at the Republican convention. Reagan
has become a symbol of what went wrong in the '80s. It's like bringing
the Music Man back to River City, a big mistake." "Newt Gingrich teaching manners is
like Charles Manson teaching non-violence." "First of all, he's [Clinton] the
first President to seriously go after and reduce the deficit. And
second, the federal government is now the smallest it's been since the
1960s." "I must say I was struck by the
expanse of their chests. They may have to put out their stats." "I must say, looking at some of that
footage, it looks like the all-beefcake ticket." "They got more positive coverage on
this bus tour than the Beatles got on their first tour of America. More
reporters were oohing and aahing. It was almost embarrassing. I'm sorry
I didn't get a chance to do it until now." "There is no evidence that Bill
Clinton has lied. He's done nothing illegal. He has what I would call
the politician's disease. He has tailored the truth to adapt to the
reality of running in a conservative southern state." "Clinton is much craftier than
George Bush in avoiding the kind of `Read My Lips' vow that allows no
maneuvering room. He can rewrite his promises to adjust to reality. That
opens him to `Slick Willie' catcalls. It also leaves him the option to
do the right thing." Back to Team Clinton Home Page
|
| Name: | .. |
OP-ED
COLUMNIST
For Iraqis to Win, the U.S. Must Lose Published: May 11, 2004
It's still too soon to declare the Iraq mission a failure. Some of the best reporting out of Iraq suggests that many Iraqis have stared into the abyss of what their country could become and have decided to work with renewed vigor toward the democracy that both we and they want. Nonetheless, it's not too early to begin thinking about what was clearly an intellectual failure. There was, above all, a failure to understand the consequences of our power. There was a failure to anticipate the response our power would have on the people we sought to liberate. They resent us for our power and at the same time expect us to be capable of everything. There was a failure to understand the effect our power would have on other people around the world. We were so sure we were using our might for noble purposes, we assumed that sooner or later, everybody else would see that as well. Far from being blinded by greed, we were blinded by idealism. Just after World War II, there were Americans who were astute students of the nature and consequences of American power. America's midcentury leaders — politicians like F.D.R. and Harry Truman, as well as public intellectuals like Reinhold Niebuhr and James Burnham — had seen American might liberate death camps. They had also seen Americans commit wartime atrocities that surpass those at Abu Ghraib. These midcentury leaders were idealists, but they were rugged idealists, because they combined a cold-eyed view of reality with a warm self-confidence in their ability to do history-changing good. They took a tragically ironic view of their situation. They understood that we can't defeat ruthless enemies without wielding power. But we can't wield power without sometimes being corrupted by it. Therefore, we can't do good without losing our innocence. History had assigned them a dirty job: taking morally hazardous action. They did not try to escape, but they did not expect sainthood. That rugged idealism looks appealing today. We went into Iraq with what, in retrospect, seems like a childish fantasy. We were going to topple Saddam, establish democracy and hand the country back to grateful Iraqis. We expected to be universally admired when it was all over. We didn't understand the tragic irony that our power is also our weakness. As long as we seemed so mighty, others, even those we were aiming to assist, were bound to revolt. They would do so for their own self-respect. In taking out Saddam, we robbed the Iraqis of the honor of liberating themselves. The fact that they had no means to do so is beside the point. Now, looking ahead, we face another irony. To earn their own freedom, the Iraqis need a victory. And since it is too late for the Iraqis to have a victory over Saddam, it is imperative that they have a victory over us. If the future textbooks of a free Iraq get written, the toppling of Saddam will be vaguely mentioned in one clause in one sentence. But the heroic Iraqi resistance against the American occupation will be lavishly described, page after page. For us to succeed in Iraq, we have to lose. That means the good Iraqis, the ones who support democracy, have to have a forum in which they can defy us. If the insurgents are the only anti-Americans, then there will always be a soft spot for them in the hearts of Iraqi patriots. That forum is an election campaign. There would be significant risks involved in moving the Iraq elections up to this fall. Parties might use their militias to coerce votes. But Iraqis have to see their candidates and themselves standing up with speeches and ideas, not just with R.P.G.'s. The insurgency would come to look anti-democratic, which would be seen to be bad, not just anti-American, which is seen to be good. If the Iraqis do campaign this fall, then at their rallies they will jeer at us. We will still be hated around the world. But we will have succeeded in doing what we set out to do. And we will have learned about the irony of our situation. E-mail: dabrooks@nytimes.com |
| Name: | Take me Back |
| Name: | Democrat |
I want would rather have Republicans persecuting Bill and Hillary 24 hours a day than the humiliation we are suffering now.
TAKE ME BACK!!!!!!!!!
TAKE ME BACK!!!!!!!!!
TAKE ME BACK!!!!!!!!!
| Name: | Bush Must GO |
| Name: | Bush = Hitler |
| To: | Bush Must GO |
| Re: | re-defeat Bush |
Message:
He is an evil liar
| Name: | .. |
| IRAQ Don't Ask, Don't Tell The horrifying pictures and reports of abuse of Iraqi prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq dominated the news this weekend. (There are new and equally sickening details in Seymour Hersh's latest New Yorker piece and in the full report by the Red Cross.) The picture that emerges is one of a Pentagon shielded behind walls of wishful thinking, a blurred chain of command and a situation made consummately worse by a lack of preparation and planning for the war in Iraq. As Newsweek reports, Rumsfeld's strengths turned out to be weaknesses and his "culture of intimidation" in fact "helped pave the road to Abu Ghraib." (Read American Progress's recent report outlining an alternative strategy in Iraq.) HIDING BAD NEWS: The Defense Department's handles bad news much like an ostrich, head firmly in the sand. In the New Yorker, Hersh explains: "Secrecy and wishful thinking...are defining characteristics of Rumsfeld's Pentagon, and shaped its response to the reports from Abu Ghraib." According to one Pentagon official, "They always want to delay the release of bad news—in the hope that something good will break." RELYING ON THE BEST CASE SCENARIOS: Top military officials are beginning to break with the cult of silence in the Pentagon and speak out about why thing have gone so wrong in Iraq. Asked who was to blame, one senior general quoted in the WP "pointed directly at Rumsfeld and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz. 'I do not believe we had a clearly defined war strategy, end state and exit strategy before we commenced our invasion,' he said. 'Had someone like Colin Powell been the chairman [of the Joint Chiefs of Staff], he would not have agreed to send troops without a clear exit strategy. The current OSD [Office of the Secretary of Defense] refused to listen or adhere to military advice.'" The Pentagon's strategy was to just count on things working out for the best: Troops would be greeted by grateful Iraqis, there would be enough oil to pay for reconstruction, there would be a strong international presence in the country. The problem: Planners in the Pentagon, when presented with best-case, moderate-case, and worst-case scenarios, based plans on best-case every time. When the reality didn't match up to rosy predictions, the United States was left without a strategy for success. SLOW TO INVESTIGATE: According to the NYT, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez told the Pentagon on March 12 that intelligence officers and contractors may have been to blame for abuse in the prisons. "For reasons that remain unclear, that inquiry did not begin until" 42 days later, on April 23. PENTAGON APPROVED: The Pentagon approved tougher interrogations. According to the WP, "in April 2003, the Defense Department approved interrogation techniques for use at the Guantanamo Bay prison that permit reversing the normal sleep patterns of detainees and exposing them to heat, cold and "sensory assault," including loud music and bright lights, according to defense officials." The list was approved at the highest levels of the Pentagon, and the use of the techniques required the approval of senior Pentagon officials. As yet, it is still unclear if the same rules were in effect in Abu Ghraib. The warden of the prison in Guantanamo Bay, Geoffrey Miller, came to Abu Ghraib to "Gitmoize" it, turning it into a hub of interrogation. THE CHENEY SOLUTION: Instead of supporting a full investigation into the prison affair, Vice President Cheney chided lawmakers looking into the fiasco, telling them to "Get off [Rumsfeld's] case." The statement seemed to claim that the real problem was a supposed victimization of Rumsfeld, instead of the massive international scandal. Cheney's statement, not surprisingly, rankled several senators of both parties who have "criticized the Pentagon for tardiness in disclosing the allegations." DON'T READ THIS REPORT: The instinct to hush things up was still in effect after the story and gruesome pictures broke. According to Time magazine, the administration sent an email to Pentagon staff with the subject line "URGENT IT (Information Technology) BULLETIN: Taguba Report." The email orders "employees not to read or download the Taguba report...on the grounds that the document is classified. It also orders them not to discuss the matter with friends or family members." IRAQ Less than three months after the White House said $50 billion was the maximum it would need in new money for operations in Iraq, the San Francisco Chronicle reports "the war in Iraq could top $150 billion through the next fiscal year," putting the Iraq invasion on track to be "one of the costliest military campaigns in modern times." The revelation is just the latest chapter in the administration's effort to mislead Americans about the cost of an Iraq invasion. A HISTORY OF MISLEADING THE PUBLIC: Before the war, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz promised that Iraq "can really finance its own reconstruction," USAID Director Andrew Natsios promised Iraq operations would cost just $1.7 billion total, and the White House budget office said "Iraq will not require sustained aid." Those estimates proved far from accurate. Then last year, the White House fired top economic adviser Larry Lindsey after he acknowledged the cost of Iraq would be between $100 and $200 billion (experts now estimate it will cost over $300 billion). Budget Director Josh Bolten said on 7/29/03 that "we don't anticipate requesting anything additional for [Iraq for] the balance of this year." Six weeks later, the president asked for another $87 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan, bringing the total to $166 billion. And this year, in an effort to obscure the worsening deficit picture, the White House omitted all costs of ongoing operations in Iraq from its budget, even as military planners said more money would be needed. Now, the White House has requested another $25 billion. EVEN POWELL IS BEING MISLED: The White House is not only misleading the American public about the cost of war – it is even misleading top national security officials in its own administration. According to USA Today, Secretary of State Colin Powell was not told of the new $25 billion request for Iraq, leaving Powell in the embarassing position of "telling members of the Congressional Black Caucus that no new funding request would be forthcoming" just days before the request became public. ADMINISTRATION APATHETIC ABOUT COST OVERRUNS: Despite costs skyrocketing, top administration officials all but admitted their indifference to massive overcharging by companies like Halliburton, the oil services firm formerly run by Vice President Cheney. For instance, with the Coalition Provisional Authority's inspector general raising new questions about bills racked up by Halliburton executives at a lavish five-star beachfront hotel in Kuwait, Wolfowitz told Senators he simply "can't give a number" detailing the burn rate of U.S. taxpayer money in Iraq. OUTRAGE OVER BEING MISLED: USA Today's editorial board writes, "By refusing to level with Congress and the public about the true costs of the war, the administration delays a needed national debate on the difficult choices the government must make to pay for the Iraq operation at a time when it is saddled with a record $500 billion deficit." For instance, "as a measure of the Bush administration's priorities in the war on terrorism, it has spent about $3 in Iraq for every $1 committed to homeland security." Boston Globe columnist Derrick Jackson notes, "the Bush administration has not made a single financial claim about the war that has come true." And while Wolfowitz last week said those who question the administration's conduct have no scruples about the truth," it is "the administration with no scruples about the cost of war and little regard for the truth." THE COST OF UNILATERALISM: Much has been written about the political and military costs of the administration's unilateralism in Iraq. But there is also one other cost: financial. As the San Francisco Chronicle notes, while the 1991 Gulf War cost $84 billion, the coalition building by the first Bush administration convinced other countries to pick up "about 90% of the cost." By contrast, U.S. taxpayers are footing almost the entire bill in Iraq today. To put the contrast in dollar figures, if the current administration had secured the same international funding and support for today's Iraq invasion as the first Bush administration did, Americans would be paying roughly $18 billion for Iraq, instead of almost $200 billion, and counting
|
| Name: | 9-11 |
| To: | Beguiled |
| Re: | Only The Clintons can save us now! |
Message:
No wonder they won't come back for a second helping!
What a shame we weenied out in 1991!!
It's gone too far even for John Kerry to turn it around!
ONLY WILLIAM JEFFERSON BLYTHE CLINTON AND HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON CAN SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY NOW!!!!!!!
| Name: | Tone Control |
| To: | On/Off Volume |
| Re: | (score: unsettlingly sinister music. Images: Atomic holocaust) |
Message:
The new mantra: CHANGE THE TONE
LP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
| Name: | Og & Wyvrn |
| To: | Foetid Mushroom Chorus |
| Re: | CHANGE THE TONE CHANGE THE TONE CHANGE THE TONE CHANGE THE TONECHANGE THE TONE C |
Message:
Bring back BORDERTEX!
| Name: | ET |
| To: | The American People |
Message:
There is nothing, nothing, nothing... the Clinton's ever did, including all the lies the Republicans think they did, that can compare to what is happening in Iraq.
Think blowjobs are worse than torture? Think perjury is worse than losing the war in Iraq? Think office firings are worse than losing 727 brave soldiers? Think fingerprints on FBI files are worse than billions of dollars lost on a lost war? Think again...
Nothing, absolutely nothing is worse than the position we are in now.
Bring back prosperity, sanity, love and peace.
| Name: | Relative Morality Police |
Message:
If you were giving me one, it would be torture.
| Name: | CHANGE THE TONE! |
CHANGE THE TONE - SIGN THE PETITION!
Petition for John F. Kerry Resignation
To: John F. Kerry for President Campaign
1. Although Mr. Kerry gave four months of honorable service in Viet Nam, he dishonored that service through his support for the anti-American anti-war effort giving testimony before the Congress of the U.S. that American soldiers were committing illegal acts against citizens of Viet Nam, testimony he knew to be false or at best did not know to be true; testimony he has never disavowed. The anti-American anti-war effort is thought to be the single greatest cause for American defeat in Viet Nam.
2. Mr. Kerry showed disrespect to honorable service to this country by throwing away his and other veterans’ medals of honor in protest to the Viet Nam War effort, at first claiming to have thrown his own medals away including three purple hearts and more, and then later claiming to have thrown only a few ribbons of his own away and several medals of others. The latter claim was made only when it became a political liability for him.
3. Mr. Kerry has more recently shown his unfitness for making difficult command decisions by first voting to authorize force in Iraq, later claiming only to have authorized the threat of force, but not the actual use of force, and then later refusing to vote for the necessary funding for the forces already in Iraq. Mr. Kerry incredibly sought political cover for this inconsistency by claiming that he actually voted for the funding before voting against it!
4. Mr. Kerry demonstrates that winning an election is more important to him than the strength and honor of the United States in that when Americans need to be pulling together in support of the War on Terror and the War in Iraq, he has encouraged and participated in divisive tactics intended to weaken the resolve of the United States and its leaders, namely by blaming the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld directly for atrocities he could not have caused or anticipated, and for calling for his removal as Secretary at a time when such would severely weaken American efforts to secure a free and independent Iraqi government. Mr. Kerry’s “blame America first” mindset is not the kind of thinking needed in the top levels of the American government.
America needs presidents and candidates that think of America first rather than their political chances. For these and other reasons we appeal to Senator John F. Kerry to accept this petition and allow better men to serve in his place.
| Name: | The American People |
Message:
Ok, The Clinton's were not as bad as Saddam Hussein.
| Name: | PWT |
| Re: | Floor Exercise |
Message:
The scores are coming in from the judges, could it be, oh my good, she's done it, she's done it!! ET has just performed the perfect "John Kerry Flip-Flop" with a double reverse. Amazing!!!
| Name: | Logic Prevails |
| To: | forum |
Message:
for lice check and eliminate the occasional wise acre with the grenade taped to his privates. Maybe the jingoistic TV, radio, and newspaper media would like to frighten 7800 people to soften them up for interrogation but it's hot and we don't have that kind of time. So the overseer told the guards to get pictures to show the prisoners. A picture is worth 1000 Iraqi language words!
Hell, we don't even have enough language experts. We knew the mass media would understand since there is no blood, no chopping off of testicles, fingers,hands,toes,feet, shaving of heads, hair pullout, scourging like Christ, or any of the fun things that Saddam Hussein did. If Saddam had left us some pictures, we wouldn't have had to humiliate out guards with this Marv Albert/ Morris pictorial!
It's Saddam's fault. All we would have needed was a "Scream track CD" and a picture of someone screaming with his body chewed up by that plastics shreader but Saddam preferred to take all the pictures with him as keepsakes of the "good times". We wish we could have found the Saddam pictures of actual, factual torture because that "scream track" would have convince all 7800 to cooperate and made our tough job easier.
You try dealing with people expecting bloody, agonizing torture and getting the wimpy stuff we're allowed. We caught them laughing in their cells at our tough torture. One even asked for young boys. He said," I'm naked and ready, bring on the tender, little boys. I want to suffer!"
| Name: | Democrat in Free-Fall |
"Our system of justice says that a man is innocent until drummed out of office through the outcry of his political opponents," said Mr. Kerry. "Our troops are fighting and dying so that someday Iraqis and Afghanis will enjoy that kind of justice, unhindered by the grinding cogs of so-called 'due process of law'."
Mr. Kerry added that when he becomes president, he'll fire any cabinet member who won't quit after his political opponents call for his resignation.
"The world is watching us," said Mr. Kerry. "We must demonstrate that, in a free nation, justice is blind and deaf."
| Name: | Janet Reno |
| Re: | Waco |
Message:
I agree!!!
| Name: | Take Back America |
| Name: | CHANGE THE TONE |
PHOTOS SHOW AMERICAN SOLDIERS HAVING SEX WITH ONE ANOTHER...
Wow, observe the Hillary Forum magic. It is already starting to feel like the Clinton era again.
WASHINGTON — President Bush (news - web sites), making an unusual visit to the Pentagon [Lying Left Wing Media Alert: this visits was planned WEEKS before the Left Wing Media starting showing the picture from the Iraqi prison] on Monday, viewed still-secret photographs of U.S. soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners and said Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld was doing "a superb job" for which the nation owes him "a debt of gratitude."
| Name: | ET |
| To: | Relative Morality Police |
Message:
Very funny!
You got me on that one :)
| Name: | Smedley |
| To: | Editor |
Message:
You mean like thebombing of an aspirin factory or the invasion of Kosovo or Clinton's monumental fu-Kup in Somalia?
Think blowjobs are worse than torture?
What? Is GWB torturing anyone?
Think perjury is worse than losing the war in Iraq?
Bill Clinton did commit perjury, but the war in Iraq is not lost.
Think office firings are worse than losing 727 brave soldiers?
No, but I'm sure that Dale would opine that losing 727 soldiers is perhaps better than losing tens of thousands of American civilians later.
Think fingerprints on FBI files are worse than billions of dollars lost on a lost war? Think again...
Fingerprints?
Boy, what a loser you are. Perhaps if Bill and Hillary weren't so busy covering trheir financial scandals and lying to grande juries, they'd have addressed the problem growing of terrorists states.
Whine all you want about Bush, but unlike Clinton Bush is willing to put his political future on the line to protect the American people.
| Name: | Fab Five |
| To: | ET |
| Re: | Maplethorpe Photos |
| Name: | Smedley |
| To: | ET |
Message:
Uh, can America afford another stock market crash and recession such as that characterized the end of the Clinton administration?
Can America afford to ignore al Qaeda for another 8 years?
Should America turn back to the Clinton policy of appeasement for North Korea?
Do Americans really want another eight years of constant scandals and trying to interpret the latest Clintonesque statements spewing from the Whitehouse?
Will John Kerry admit to at least owning an SUV?
How many more purloined FBI files should Americans expect?
Should America have to suffer through another four to eight years of "I don't recall" in response to every other question directed to the Clinton scandal du jour?
| Name: | CHANGE THE TONE |
After the 'Get-Rummy' Binge,Sobriety Is Returning
Wall Street Journal
May 11, 2004
GEORGE MELLOAN
Quite possibly, George W. Bush has awakened to the most important danger arising from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, its use by his Beltway enemies to destroy his administration. The current target of opportunity is Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, but the strategic goal is to topple the president himself.
The baying of the hounds reached its peak over the weekend when even Britain's Economist magazine bannered "Resign, Rumsfeld" on its cover. Its usually sensible editors, who have supported the war on terror, clearly had come under the influence of the hysteria whipped up over the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners.
Over the weekend, the Bush forces finally launched a counterattack, although by the nature of things in American politics, it will receive less press notice than the attacks themselves. The formidable Bush national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, said Mr. Rumsfeld is doing a good job "in one of the most challenging periods of American history." Vice President Cheney, a former defense secretary himself, went even further, calling Mr. Rumsfeld "the best secretary of defense the United States has ever had."
The strongest people in the Bush administration, including Mr. Rumsfeld, know what is at stake here. It is not just whether Mr. Bush will be re-elected, but whether the war on terror itself will fizzle out like the Vietnam war did 30 years ago. Indeed, some of the same characters are involved. John Kerry, who gave Hanoi aid and comfort after his return from the war, is now running for president. Seymour M. Hersh, the reporter who has just revived his career with his Abu Ghraib story in The New Yorker, 35 years ago broke the story of the My Lai massacre in Vietnam. His work then helped turn Americans against that war.
Even before the Abu Ghraib story broke on CBS, leaders around the world were beginning to have doubts about Mr. Bush's assurances that he would "stay the course" in Iraq. They were heightened by the public reaction to Abu Ghraib but also by what appeared to be an uncertain trumpet in the siege of Fallujah, when the U.S. Marines first poised themselves to clean out Saddam's holdouts and then turned the job over to Iraqis.
An Asian politician I spoke with recently told me that if the U.S. fails in Iraq, "we're all in trouble." No wonder he is concerned. Terrorist groups, spun off from Osama bin Laden's training camps and Wahabi hate schools, have been sprouting like dragon's teeth in Asia, carrying out such atrocities as the night club bombing on Bali.
Opinion polls suggest that Americans approve of the way Mr. Bush has handled the Abu Ghraib affair. His expressions of outrage and his explanation to Arabs that the behavior of the guards at the prison camp was not consistent with American values, seemingly went down very well. But whoever leaked the oval office dressing-down he gave Mr. Rumsfeld took the mea culpas to another level, sharpening the blood lust of the Pentagon's enemies, which include some of the denizens of the administration's foreign policy branch.
To get back to giant press "scoops," it should be noted that Mr. Hersh's twin killings both resulted from investigations by the Army itself. Lt. William Calley Jr. who led the platoon at My Lai, was being court-marshaled when Mr. Hersh interviewed him. The story about the Abu Ghraib troop misbehavior was based on a report by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba highly critical of the management of the prison and methods used by interrogators. If the army made a mistake it was not because the commanders, or Mr. Rumsfeld, were not doing their jobs, but because they allowed the report to leak rather than making it public as soon as it was completed.
Of course, that doesn't always head off trouble, either. The Reagan administration itself disclosed the details of the muddled extralegal scheme of Oliver North and others to raise money for the anticommunist "contras" in Nicaragua. But the Democrats whooped it up as a political issue anyway.
The issue that concerned the army itself at Abu Ghraib was the use of prison guards to "prepare" captives for indoctrination. There is of course the danger that "breaking down" captives will escalate from such mild techniques as sleep deprivation to outright physical torture, which seems to have happened in a few instances. Aside from ethics, the use of guards for these purposes is not condoned by army doctrine because it makes a prison population harder to control.
Interrogators, however, have an important role in warfare, particularly the kind of war now being fought in Iraq, against guerrillas who hide among the civilian population. You have to learn the identities of combatants if you're going to search them out and kill or capture them. The battlefield intelligence officers and the civilian translators who work for them have that job. It's not surprising that some, feeling pressure for results, fudged army regulations, however inexcusable that might have been.
The Vietnam war posed a similar problem when the U.S. military found that the most innocent looking civilians, including women and teenagers, might be prepared to kill. Indeed, terrorism in general is that kind of warfare, in which a pretty young woman climbing on a bus in Israel, for example, might have been conditioned and equipped by her psychological masters to blow everyone and herself up.
There is, of course, some irony to be found in the fact that the American press and public by and large accepted the slaughter of Iraqi troops with cluster bombs and other ordnance during the actual invasion of Iraq. That was the conventional warfare many accept when dictated by political necessity. The war on terrorism poses more complex moral issues.
The Bush administration will have to navigate this minefield as best it can. But it mainly will need to avoid being routed by domestic enemies and opponents of its efforts in Iraq. One mistake to avoid is to try to appease them by throwing Rummy to the wolves.
| Name: | Black Sands |
| Re: | The Republilcan's eerie foresight |
1. We would go to war.
2. The national debt would soar.
3. The US economy would plummet.
4. The stock market would plunge.
5. Unemployment would be rampant.
6. The US dollar would quickly decline in value.
7. We would have a huge budget deficit.
They were right. Gore won and all those things happened.
| Name: | Relative Morality |
Message:
In a relative morality world, all events are equal.
| Name: | The Good JC Fan |
| To: | forum |
| Re: | Stats more accurate not slanted |
Message:
Posted 5/11/2004 10:42 AM
Today's Top Life Stories
• Danny Rosett named president of UA - 11:42 AM
• Hollywood agent Phil Gersh dies at 92 - 11:36 AM
• Dion cancels 3 shows on doctor's orders - 11:17 AM
• Jackie Chan digs up land mines in Cambodia - 10:42 AM
• Oasis recruits Starr's son - 10:28 AM
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Jackie Chan digs up land mines in Cambodia
HONG KONG (AP) — Hong Kong action star Jackie Chan spent a week digging up land mines during a recent trip to Cambodia to raise awareness about the issue there.
Chan listens as Cambodian landmine victims tell their stories during a tour of a rehabilitation center in Siem Reap, northwest Cambodia.
By Andy Eames, AP
Chan, a newly appointed U.N. goodwill ambassador, spent three days in Cambodia in late April, visiting land mine explosion victims and HIV/AIDS patients.
Cambodia has Southeast Asia's highest HIV infection rate at 2.6% for 2002, according to the United Nations. The country's remote areas are still strewn with land mines and unexploded bombs left over from three decades of fighting.
The 50-year-old actor, a star of Hollywood and Chinese-language movies for more than 20 years, told reporters Monday that he walked through an area once sown with land mines that has since been mostly — but not entirely — cleared.
Chan said he wasn't afraid, but "for a week, whenever I had a dream, I dreamt about digging (up) land mines."
"A child could go to buy milk and return without legs," he said.
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | SPINdividual |
Message:
So moron, if it is impossible to establish a cause-effect relationship in economic why did claim there is a cause-effect relationship between deficit spending GDP growth?
Skewered by your own words again.
| Name: | She bang |
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | SPINdividual |
| Re: | Can't get his stories straight. |
Message:
SPINdividual states a "factual" but "not scientific" cause-effect relationship in economics after calming anybody that finished junior high school would know there is no way to establish a cause-effect relationship in economics.
Clearly SPINdividual is doing his impression of John F'n Kerry, double-talk expert.
| Name: | The Good JC Fan |
| To: | forum |
| Re: | Sorry got so much chaf in post, Jackie is a REAL HERO though |
Message:
We can send someone by for a massage or whatever. Need a pizza or a rimming treatment? Reasonable prices, lovely gracious messengers.
| Name: | Smedley |
| To: | Loser |
Yes, better to wait for another 911.
2. The national debt would soar.
Thank you Clinton recession.
3. The US economy would plummet.
Something that startted before Bush took Office.
4. The stock market would plunge.
Something that startted before Bush took Office.
5. Unemployment would be rampant.
Yes, 5.6% unemployment, which is better than through most of the Clinton admin, is now "rampant". LMAO.
6. The US dollar would quickly decline in value.
Meaning greater exports for US products and more tourist dollars spent in US.
7. We would have a huge budget deficit.
Thank you Clinton recession.
They were right. Gore won and all those things happened.
Earth to moron.
Gore lost.
Get over it.
| Name: | Lighten Up |
cut and paste this link for a good time! Be sure to read to the bottom.
| Name: | No sacred cow burgers hier |
| Name: | Mel Gibsen, Sweden immigrant |
| To: | forum |
| Re: | Passion of Christ still in TOP 10! |
Message:
Viewers watched "The Passion of Christ" documentary with present day Middle East footage and All about Paul the Apostle spreading the gospel throughout the Roman Empire.
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | PWT |
Message:
PWT, that was a spectacular job of nailing SPINdividual's butt to the wall.
Like you said, if there is no way to establish cause-effect relationships in economics then there is no way to give Bill Clinton credit for economic conditions. I guess SPINdividual will now admit there was no “Clinton miracle”
Don’t hold your breath, Left Wing Extremists are not known for consistency or honesty.
| Name: | HILLARY SUPPORTER |
| To: | The American People |
Message:
The Clintons....YES AGAIN!!
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | Yet Another Lying Democrat |
Message:
Please show us where Republicans actually made these statements or admit you are yet another lying Democrat
| Name: | HILLARY SUPPORTER |
| To: | Editor |
HEY HILLARY, GO GET 'EM, GIRL!!
| Name: | Smedley |
Message:
What the hell, two Clinton administrations, two Clintons impeached.
| Name: | Individual |
Message:
You people are really not all that bright, are you. Refer to your 6th-grade text on science for this information: If I had wanted to state a cause-effect relationship, I wouldn't have mentioned a time frame. For example, the cause-effect relationships established under the law of gravity do not have a 20-year time frame. That is why I called it "factual" (20 years of data) instead of "scientific" (all possible data, not just 20 years).
But to get back to the main point: in the last 20 years or so, we have got much more bang for our buck when democrats (Clinton) were in office. And I should have said, much, much, much more of a bang.
| Name: | Smedley |
| To: | The American People |
Message:
Chill dude! Democrats are ENTITLED to lie. They're handicapped and unable to tell the truth or tell the difference.
| Name: | You GO Hillary |
Message:
You GO Hillary!!!
Stand by your Cheating Man!!!!
Be his door mat!!!!
Let him publicly humiliate you over and over!!
Remember he is your political meat ticket!!
Remember, without him, you have no political career.
You GO GIRL, coattails is where a woman belongs!!
| Name: | HILLARY SUPPORTER |
Clinton Announces Federal Initiative to Protect Immigrant Families From Money Transfer Rip-Offs
Senator Calls for an end to hidden fees faced by hard working immigrant families who send money to their native countries New York, NY – Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and New York City Public Advocate Betsy Gotbaum, joined today with consumer advocates and representatives from New York credit unions and community groups, to announce legislation that will help protect people who wire money to their native countries from outrageous hidden fees and charges.
Across New York, hundreds of thousands of immigrants struggle and save to wire money to their families at home but because of poor regulation of money wire services and ad hoc standards, many are at risk of getting ripped off - charged with unforeseen fees or unfair exchange rates.
At the press conference, held on New York's Lower East Side, Senator Clinton outlined federal legislation - the International Remittances Services Enhancement and Protection Act and the Money Wire Act - to help prevent this problem and provide important consumer awareness information to help people avoid paying unfair fees or charges when they wire money. Senator Clinton also announced that she was partnering with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the Federal Depository Insurance Corporation (FDIC) in a consumer education campaign that will consist of making consumer publications and resources available in her district offices in both English and Spanish and adding links to these consumer resources on her website. For consumer information, go to http://clinton.senate.gov.
"May 10 is Mexican Mothers' Day and yesterday marked Mothers' Day for so many others – two days when millions of dollars is sent by hardworking immigrants across New York and the country to their families back home," Senator Clinton said. "But in so many cases, people are saving and sending money without any idea that they are being charged hidden fees and unfair exchange rates."
"Unlike tourism dollars and export revenues, these remittances go directly to segments of the general population that need the most help," said Senator Clinton. "This hard currency income has a dramatic impact on the lives of the people who desperately need it. We must ensure that when people send their money they are not a risk of being ripped off by unseen charges and penalties."
At the press conference, Senator Clinton noted that last year alone, remittances to Latin America and the Caribbean reached over $38 billion, exceeding the amount of combined flows of all foreign aid to the region. According to the Inter-American Development Bank, Latin America and the Caribbean is now the fastest growing and highest volume remittance market in the world. Mexico is the largest recipient of remittances, reaching over $13 billion. Senator Clinton pointed also out that money transfers are not limited to the Hispanic community – thousands of immigrant populations across New York regularly send money to relatives in their native countries.
At the press conference, Senator Clinton pointed out that most immigrants send home an average of $200 per month in spite earnings that generally run below $25,000 per year. But according to the Inter-American Dialogue, of the $25 billion in remittances sent from immigrants in the United States to family members in the Latin American and Caribbean region last year, nearly $4 billion was eaten up by fees and other transaction costs.
Senator Clinton is co-sponsoring two bills designed to ease the burden of fees and transaction costs. The International Remittances Services Enhancement and Protection Act will remove regulatory barriers that discourage credit unions from offering services to the poor and will require full disclosure of the fees and exchange rates they charge. The hope is this will increase competition, thereby reducing costs.
The Money Wire Act will further transparency in the money transfer business, giving immigrants the information they need to make informed choices about who they allow to handle these transactions.
Joining Senator Clinton and Public Advocate Gotbaum at the press conference were representatives from the Hispanic Federation, the World Council of Credit Unions, NY Immigration Coalition, Alianza Dominicana, the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation among others.
For more information, please visit:
Federal Trade Commission's Website in english and en espanol The Federal Depository Insurance Corporation's MoneySmart Curriculum The Treasury Department's Information on Basic Savings, Credit Management, Home Ownership, Retirement Planning, and other subjects in english and en espanol
| Name: | Immigrant |
Message:
If they weren't illegals they could open a checking account and send a check like I do.
| Name: | Individual |
Message:
Again and again and again. Get out the 6th-grade text. I said "under Clinton" or "under Bush." "Clinton was a miracle" is a value judgment--not a cause-effect statement. "Bush is a putz" is a value judgment--not a cause-effect statement. Based on the facts (what happened under Clinton), the value judgment "Clinton was a miracle" is justified. Based on the facts (what happened under Bush), the value judgment "Bush is a putz" is justified. In case you hadn't noticed, value judgments are subjective, by definition. If Bush wants to pass the buck for bad conditions which happened on his watch, then that is just a politician talking.
| Name: | Smedley |
| To: | spIndividual |
Message:
Coming from a retard like you who gets caught daily in some lie or another, I'd say that hurts, but the truth is that we on the right have an affection for you. You're the obnoxious brain-dead cousin we never had.
| Name: | Smedley |
Message:
Yes, it's a miracle we survived the Clinton administration given he was just toooo busy with the interns to stop the Clinton Recession or the GREAT CLINTON STOCK CRASH or too busy to fight terrorism.
| Name: | Smedley |
| Re: | REPEAT |
Message:
Yes, it's a miracle we survived the Clinton administration given he was just toooo busy with the interns to stop the Clinton Recession or the GREAT CLINTON STOCK CRASH or too busy to fight terrorism.
| Name: | HILLARY SUPPORTER |
| To: | You GO Hillary |
Message:
Look, maybe they have an open marriage.(note: I said MAYBE. I DID NOT say they do) What's the big deal? I don't know why everyone is so interested in their relationship anyway?! That is between Bill & Hillary ONLY! Hillary is NOT the first and only woman who's husband has cheated and is still with him!!
She is hardley a door mat! Bill Clinton would not have been President if it weren't for Hillary! Don't get me wrong, Bill C. is a very intelligent man, even an intellectual, but it's Hillary who has the drive + motivation and who pushed Bill to where he is today. Remember back in Arkansas (I think 1982), she was the one who ran his campaign and got him relected as governor after losing the prior election.
So you got it wrong! Bill needed Hillary in order to make it to Washington.
| Name: | Try it again |
| Name: | HILLARY SUPPORTER |
| To: | Smedley |
Message:
Didn't your mother ever teach you it's not nice to make fun of the handicapped???
| Name: | Smedley |
then you'd be calling Hillary a liar. Haven'tr you read Hillary's Living History?
What's the big deal?
Honesty and character are meaningless are lost to you.
I don't know why everyone is so interested in their relationship anyway?!
They are the butt of jokes, aren't they?
That is between Bill & Hillary ONLY!
And a few fat interns
Hillary is NOT the first and only woman who's husband has cheated and is still with him!!
No, just the most pathetic.
| Name: | What say? |
| To: | forum |
| Re: | I don't know what you been drinkin'... |
Message:
You gotta tell me what adult beverage could make me forget 1992-2001.How to grow Quat like the Somalians drink as a tea. I know there are legal things I can grow. Meanwhile, just tell me what you been drinkin' to make the Democrats and the Clintons go away. Bill's new book is My Life of Lies: The Truth is a Gray Area.
| Name: | Smedley |
| To: | HILLARY SUPPORTER |
Message:
Yeah, but I make a special exception for spIndividual
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | SPINdividual |
Message:
First you claim a cause-effect relationship between Bill Clinton's Presidency and the economy then you claim anybody that finishes junior high school knows it is impossible to establish a cause-effect relationship in economics.
...and then you have the nerve to question somebody else's intellegence level?
Amazing.
| Name: | Forum Fan |
Message:
This is out of character for Smedley. Smedley is not the type that would make light of retarded people. I think somebody is trying to make Smedley look bad.
| Name: | HMMMMM |
| To: | Smedley |
Message:
There was the HUNDRED DAYS of the Tailgate Military Scandal and nothing happened to the Secretary of Defense who was guilty as SIN for monitoring homo meeting areas, filming people going into same park rest room and coming out an hour later,etc.
Really homophobic activity during Clinton's rageme. No wonder people decided we needed a change even if we did see the topless pictures of Bill Clinton and Al Gore in their unbuttoned Levis 501s.
Besides Clinton encouraged grabbing in hallways by being Commander in Chief of Grab Askers and grabbing that good lookin' widder woman.
| Name: | You GO Hillary |
| To: | HILLARY'S SUPPORTER |
Message:
You post a lovey picture of the Clinton's and wonder why people point out they are not the poster kids for a good relationship.
Hillary lied to the American people when she made up the story of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy to cover for her husband's lies. The American people will not forget that.
| Name: | Individual |
As regards deficits, under Clinton, we had declining on-budget deficits which turned into on-budget surpluses. Towards the end of the Clinton administration, the CBO and everybody else was projecting that the national debt would turn into a surplus by 2012 or so. Unbelievable result given the out-of-control spending under Reagan and Bush's father.
As regards the stock market, I can't count the number of times that the DOW hit an "all-time high" under Clinton. It happened almost on a weekly basis for some years. Spectacular.
As I said, the refrain should be "let's get back to prosperity without deficit spending." It has a good sound. A good sound-bite.
| Name: | Smedley |
| To: | Forum Fan |
Message:
Look, I know that comparing retarded people to spIndividual is beyond the pale of propriety in polite society. However, I assure you that I am smedley.
| Name: | magpie |
| To: | hillary droid |
Message:
you and the hypocrite wench shouldn't be shooting your mouths off about how she is a 'role model' for wimmin. she isn't. she is a weakling who uses his screwing around on her as a way to sway power through guilt. it's as dysfunctional as the prototypical woman in the trailer park who gets the crap beat out of her and does nothing about it because she is so weak that any alternative to her is the great unknown. She's a sham and you know it.
| Name: | You GO Hillary |
| To: | HILLARY'S SUPPORTER |
Message:
In your dreams. Hillary was a liablity, not an asset.
Without Hillary, Bill Clinton MIGHT have won a majority of the popular vote (something he never did).
| Name: | Forum Fan |
| To: | Smedley |
Message:
What town did your wife live in before you were married?
| Name: | Individual |
Message:
Do you have any idea of what you are rambling about? Maybe a little instruction is in order. First, do you know the difference between a cause-effect statement and a value judgment? Second, do you know the difference between a fact and a scientific generalization? It surely doesn't sound like you do. But any good junior-high text would help--if you are reading at a junior-high level.
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | SPINdividual |
Individual: The list of economic accomplishments under Clinton is just too long to recite.
Individual (previous forum): Didn't any of you right wing extremists finish junior high school? There is no way to establish a cause-effect relationship in economics
...no more needs to be said.
| Name: | Ask Doctor Liberal |
I'm a rich white self-loathing leftist with a bad case of liberal guilt. Who should I feel more guilty about: my quadriplegic, Spanish-speaking girlfriend or my African-American maid to whom I deliberately pay low wages so that I can feel more guilty about her?
B. Gates
Seattle, Washington
Dear B.,Definitely, you should feel more guilty about your quadriplegic, Spanish-speaking girlfriend. And let me say that you are doing a wonderful thing by deliberately underpaying your African-American maid. Only by highlighting past injustices will we ever be able to correct them.
Good luck with your liberal guilt trip!
| Name: | Individual |
Message:
Now we're getting somewhere. Is the above a value judgment, a fact, or a cause-effect statement? Keep your junior-high science text handy.
| Name: | Yeeessssss |
| To: | Individual |
Message:
For example, but for Hillary's Health Care debacle, the Republicans would never had achieved the power necessary to steer the economy clear of Clinton's control.
| Name: | magpie |
| To: | individual |
Message:
How did the clinton/gore team manage to leave us with a recession when there was a budget surplus?
Are you ever going to answer this or do you need some remedial reading classes?
| Name: | HILLARY SUPPORTER |
| To: | Smedley |
Message:
NO!! I just believe that there is only so much explanation that she owes the public. And anyway, I was just being kinda "wise mouthed" when I responded with that remark.
| Name: | Smedley |
Message:
Germantown, MD, but her family is from Philly
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | SPINdividual |
Message:
Are you trying to claim "The list of economic accomplishments under Clinton is just too long to recite."
OK. Fine.
What is a "value judgment"
value judgment n. - A judgment that assigns a value, as to an object or action; a subjective evaluation.
Ok. Your claim is subjective. Fine.
Lets sum up. You said anybody that finishes junior high knows there is no way to establish a cause-effect relationship in economics then you go on to present a subjective statement that claims a cause-effect relationship in economics. So, which is true:
1. You discredited your own subjective statement.
2. You did not finish junior high school yet.
3. All of the above.
| Name: | bordertex |
| To: | forum |
| Re: | BUSH/CHENEY FAIL THE COUNTRY |
yes indeed the bush mission in Iraq has been a failure at achieving what the bush administration thought it would be achieving by placing in the front door of death many american soldiers and sending them back in coffins
and what was once a country and region where at least women and children were not being bombarded with american and british bombs and losing their lives everyday to mr. bush's oil war day and night since mr. bush inflicted this nightmare on the people of Iraq
has now been turned into by mr. bush a massive american and iraqi graveside where there seems to be no end to the bush war gluttony on the coffins and deaths of much civlian deaths and loss of american soldiers lives where there have been more troop loss after a war than during the mini two month war bush had promised out of Iraq
AND OF COURSE WE KNOW THAT IF WE HAD A REAL COMMANDER IN CHIEF HE WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE PROBABILITIES OF A MINI TWO MONTH WAR were very slim
but this are the haunts and faults of a society who allowed the appointment of a ball park manager to be commander in chief to play with the lives of american soldiers when bushZ!
DID NOT EVEN SERVE IN VIETNAM NOR SET FOOT ON THE JUNGLES OF ANOTHER STUPID WAR by those in power at that time in the United States
and yet we have this republican appointed supposedly "president" who cannot even write his own speechs and who cannot give one step without that other fraud by his side Cheney taking all this troops to die in bush's iraqi vietnam?
WE HAD NO BUSINESS IN IRAQ AND SINCE THE MOMENT THE U.N. INSPECTORS ON THE GROUND IN IRAQ ESTABLISHED THERE WERE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
the bush administration had no right to attack Iraq but what other political platform could bush/cheney make in the middle of the economic depression through the stupid tax cuts by bush to the rich?
If the bush administration thinks the people of this country have not caught on to the wheeling and dealing with our billions and all this american corporations in Iraq well know mr. bush that we have caught on and have reached the determination bush knew about 9-11
AND ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN
knowingly and intentionally,,,,,,,,,oh yes this republican party is so dangerous to society that no age is safe and with John Kerry as President, this country will regain its dignity
FOR WHAT HAVE THE REPUBLICANS DONE WITH OUR TAXDOLLARS TAKING THEM TO IRAQ INTEAD OF SPENDING EM HERE?
AND WHO IS CALLING THE SHOTS IN WASHINGTON WHEN EVERY DAY IT FEELS ISRAEL IS RUNNING THE BUSH WHITEHOUSE?
ARIEL SHARON AND TONY BLAIR,,,,,,,YOU BOTH WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO DICTATED TO OUR COUNTRY THE WAY YOU HAVE OPERATED THE BUSH/CHENEY WHITEHOUSE BECAUSE ITS OUR KIDS PAYING THE PRICE WITH THEIR LIVES
KIDS THAT ARE BEING EXPLOITED IN BUSH'S POLITICAL PLOT BUT GUESS WHAT BUSH CONDI AND CHENEY
YOUR DAYS ARE OVER S YES YOUR DAYS ARE OVER AND JOHN KERRY WILL BE PRESIDENT BECAUSE AMERICA, THIS THE THE ONLY CHOICE WE HAVE FOR THE SAKE OF LIFE ITSELF BECAUSE SINCE THIS REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN IN OFFICE THE EPA OFFICE WENT DOWN THE DRAIN
and bush/s polluter contributors are now running the Whitehouse
because this is all that can happen in a corrupt republican administration and it happened with the perseuction of the Clintons with our taxdollars and this time they are not only exploiting the taxdollars but the lives of american trooops returning in body bags to feed bush's oil war ego.
| Name: | HILLARY SUPPORTER |
| To: | Magpie |
You sound just like an old disgruntled hill type to me!!
| Name: | Smedley |
Message:
Well, according to Hillary, she was in ABSOLUTE SHOCK to the point of practically being unable to draw breath when she heard about Bill's infidelities.
And while Hillary may not OWE the public any explaination, apparently she was ready to SELL such an explaination to the public for 8 million dollars.
You don't suppose Hillary lied in her book, do you?
| Name: | Smedley |
| To: | Forum |
Buh bye 4 now
| Name: | Forum Fan |
| To: | Smedley |
Message:
Smedley, retarded people had no choice in their lot in life. I believe Individual's stupidity is self-induced based on extreme partisanship. Call Individual the village idiot but don't disrespect retarded people by comparing them to someone with self-induced partisan stupidity.
| Name: | Peep hole |
| To: | Smedley |
Message:
Very insulting to retards, Smedley. I'm shocked by your callousness.
| Name: | Ask Doctor Liberal |
Where can a liberal watch unbiased news these days? Everything is either Rush Limbaugh or Fox News. Where can one get objective and balanced reporting?
Freddy Engels
Kokomo, Indiana
Dear Freddy,Well, the best bet for unbiased accurate reporting is the Al-Jazeera Network. They really tell it like it is about how George Bush planned the 9/11 attacks in conjunction with Israel and the Tri-Lateral Commission. I also think that the Havana Times is an excellent source of news. Pravda used to be very good, but it's been shaky the last decade or so
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | SPINdividual |
Message:
What is the basis for your subjective statement?
1. Partisan nonsense
2. Parroting of Left Wing Propaganda
3. Fecal matter from your own anus
4. Implied cause-effect relationship
| Name: | magpie |
| To: | hillary droid |
Message:
and you sound like a seventh grade pierced-tatooed- with half a brain to me.
| Name: | The American People |
| To: | SPINdividual |
Message:
Better yet: if your statement was NOT based on an implied cause-effect relationship, how did you arrive at your subjective statement?
| Name: | Bystander |
| To: | The American People |
Message:
I agree. If Individual is not basing his subjective statement on an implied cause-effect relationship then isn't he admitting his "value judgment" is merely bullsh!t?
| Name: | nuff said |
| To: | bordertex |
Message:
How many times did Bill Clinton aimlessly bomb civilians in Iraq?
nuff said.
| Name: | I hope the Democrats and the Left Wing Media are happy now |
I hope the Democrats and the Left Wing Media is happy now
Islamic Web site claims revenge killing
Video shows beheading of man identified as American
In the Democrat’s Relative Morality World, Psychological harassment is the same as murder.
CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed the beheading of an American civilian in Iraq, and said the execution was carried out by an al-Qaida affiliated group to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.
| Name: | ... |
Welcome to A NEW DARK AGE
| Name: | A Big Thanks to the Democrats |
Message:
Thank you CBS.
Thank you Senator Ted Kennedy.
Thank you Hillary Clinton.
Thank you John Kerry.
Thank you General Taguba.
| Name: | Scratch N Sniff |
| To: | ET |
| Re: | Clinton spread great misery and much death to no good purpose. |
Message:
Tens of thousands of civilians of all ages suffered and starved and froze on the bare mountainsides during BILL CLINTON'S BIG BOMBS AWAY FROM THREE MILES HIGH ADVENTURE IN KOSOVO.
| Name: | Bystander |
Message:
The good news is none of them were forced to wear women's underwear on their heads.
| Name: | Bill Bo |
| To: | Scratch N Sniff |
Message:
A thousand civilians died while Bill got a BJ from Monica.
| Name: | JB Williams |
| Re: | A Few Bad Apples |
Is there anyone in America who wants to rush to the defense of these few who crossed the line in their abusive treatment of war prisoners? Does anyone have a good explanation for what happened or why? I realize we don’t agree on much these days, but can’t we all agree that these few bad apples behaved very badly, and that it not only negatively affects the prisoners they mistreated, but also, their fellow soldiers and the country they serve?
Their behavior will not improve our odds of success in the Middle East, it won’t bring the Iraqi people out of their homes and into the political process, it will cause more brutal treatment of our own when captured, and it greatly undermines US credibility and the purposes for which we are there. It’s amazing what damage a few bad apples can do. We are outraged, and we should be. They will pay a price for their behavior, and they should.
However, these few are in no way representative of the 135,000 US troops on the ground in Iraq, and someone needs to say that. In no time at all, these images were plastered over every TV screen, headline and tabloid. Not just because it is a story that should be told, but because it is a story that some of us want to tell. Like everything else these days, there are political implications, or at least the case will be made. Hillary Clinton wasted no time dashing to a microphone clucking about how this problem is widespread, and “goes all the way up the chain of command”. In other words, here’s one more reason why you should hate George W. Bush. But one assumption is safe, if these acts of brutality were in any way government sanctioned, we would have never seen the pictures.
Never mind that John Kerry himself, (in his own words), was guilty of far worse war crimes. Attempts are underway to saddle Bush with these outrageous abuses, as though he ordered the abuses himself. Forget that it is a war, and that few of us really want to know all the methods used to extract information from enemy combatants during war.
I am bothered by the fact that we were not nearly as outraged at the sites of American contractors being burned, beaten and dragged through the streets until dead. As a civilized caring people, we are outraged at the behavior of these soldiers for many reasons, and we are right to be. We hold our own soldiers to a higher standard than that of our enemies, and we should. But there does seem to be more to this story than meets the eye.
With every administration adversity, comes a political opportunity for their opponents, and they have demonstrated over and over, their willingness to capitalize on any opportunity, real or not, reasonable or not. Little care or thought is given to the consequences of exploiting such opportunities, after all, we are at war back home in America as well, and all is fair when it comes to political battles in an election cycle, at least for some.
Meanwhile, the great work being done by the vast majority of soldiers is overshadowed by these events and the urge to politicize them back home. Around the world, people are shocked by both the events themselves, and America’s reaction at home, confused by our public display of concern for Iraqi prisoners, while we abuse each other similarly throughout our election campaigns. In short, much of how the rest of the world see’s America is unfortunately true. We are petty, self centered, politically motivated and completely ruthless, at least some of us.
I am disappointed and disturbed by the behavior of these few soldiers just like everyone else, and I trust that we will get to the bottom of what happened, and that justice will be served upon those soldiers. But I am also disturbed by a media who is only interested in airing this kind of news, completely ignoring 99% of what is happening in Iraq because it’s not negative enough to report.
I am equally concerned about political hacks who will attempt to capitalize on any opportunity to advance their agenda, without regard for the damage done in the process. Even more concerned about an American electorate caught up in a Jerry Springer Show political climate. Before I can even finish this piece, the illegitimate Kerry Campaign of MoveOn.org is gearing up to use the acts of a few soldiers thousands of miles away to bash Bush, demanding yet another broad investigation, I suppose to see if Bush himself ordered the abusive tactics.
These soldiers have done more damage than they ever imagined they could, to themselves, to our mission in Iraq and their fellow soldiers, to their country on worldwide stage, and to their commander-in-chief and his administration. Only Terry McAuliffe himself could have planned it better.
| Name: | 19 Hands High |
| To: | Airhead |
| Re: | Hillary's unmentionables? |
Message:
You are free to worship Hillary as you please, of course; but please do not put pictures of her undergarments up here. Thank you.
| Name: | Can Ya Feel The Love? |
Message: 
| Name: | Facts |
| To: | Leftist & Democrat Partisan Propagandists |
| Re: | Extreme and destructive partisanship |
Message:
You people are going to get some of our military personel killed, probably very horribley killed, with your over-reaction, embellishments, and careless handling of material and information and allegations related to the incidents in the Iraqi prison. Those who die will not likely be any of those few personel who perpetrated the abuse, either. Your behavior is transparently partisan, and utterly revolting, not to mention DEADLY!
| Name: | FreeinTX |
| Re: | Clinton not as bad as Hussien |
Message:
Bill Clinton not only lied to the American people, he circumvented the entire legal process with his lies. In his wake, he denied legal access for a number of women who he victimized while a gov. in Ark. and as the President of the Unites States.
Why is it that when these forums talk of bringing the Clintons back, the only thing they can say is the Clintons' weren't as bad as Bush is now. One of these threads suggested that we should bring the Clintons back because they're not as bad as Hussien. Like our choices would ever be Clinton or Hussien for President. Silliness.
Why insist that Hillary running for office would have anything to do with Bill? Why would Bill's POOR performance record be any indication of how Hillary would run the Office of President? Bringing Hillary into the office would not bring back the blowjob's in the press. More likely it would bring back Whitewater if anything. Furthermore regardless of who we elect they will be forced to deal with the situation in Iraq, and the way they deal with this will be the driving focus of the press. For all we know, Bush is running rampant with interns but Iraq is a much more pressing issue for the media.
And yes, I think purjury is as bad as torture in this case. It's not Bush torturing Iraqi's. It was Clinton, however, lieing to the people. As a result of the media exposure of the mistreatment of Iraqi's, people who are responsible will be punished. Hopefully, all the way up the chain of command. At the very least the soldiers directly responsible. The "6 morons," as the military calls them, will be punished to some extent, probably not enough to appease the Iraqi civilians, but they will be punished. Clinton, however, commited crimes and was not only unpunished for these acts, he also denied due process of Justice to a number of women. The man directly responsible, Clinton, went unpunished. Bush holds a higher ground in regards to Justice than Clinton ever will when comparing these two events.
We are not LOSING the war in Iraq. We have already won. Saddam Hussien is no longer in power. That's a victory. The rebuilding process that follows is the result of our victory. Bush, however, did not realize or at least did not recognize the aftermath of this victory. It is becoming obvious that the Iraqi's now just want to be left alone. However, without authority in place, the country will revert back to times worse than Saddam, giving the US an obligation to secure the area before power is transferred back to the Iraqi's.
There is NO politician in today's American society that will be able to stabilize the situation in Iraq. There is NO WAY to make every group in every part of Iraq or the world, for that matter, happy. Even if the smallest group felt displeased with the events occuring in Iraq, the stabilization process will not carry forward.
One suicide bombing a month is too much for a country to be considered stable, yet currently volunteers for suicide bombings come at a cost of $500.00 to $1000.00 US. That's less than my rent. An Iraqi political leader or a religious leader would have no problem coming up with that kind of money in a country that produces that much oil and thus carrying out missions to further de-stablize Iraq.
A small group of 10 people could keep the country in seige for years. That group doesn't even have to be from Iraq. Any group wishing to destablize Iraq, regardless of size, location, intention, or legitimacy, can and will do so and almost no cost to them. Imporvised Explosive Devices, mortars, RPG's, Ak's and soldiers willing to use them are all cheap. They cost less than a few humdered dollars each. IED's can be made with less than $100.00. A small rebel force can force the US occupation of Iraq with the funding equivelent to 1 middle class American citizen.
Now the small force spends thousand and forces the US to spend Billions. That is exactly the plans of the small groups causing problems in Iraq. When you think back to the Cold W
Eleanor
Clift
his
has been a crushingly depressing period, especially for people who
support the war in Iraq. The predictions people on my side made about
the postwar world have not yet come true. The warnings others made about
the fractious state of post-Saddam society have.