Name:	PhilOhio
To:	My Dream Girl
Re:	Forum #827...Wa-a-a-ay back there, found by accident

In response to:
Your web editor's Forum #827 kick-off header, alluding to Arab terrorists planted around us in the United States, I guess: "They are our neighbors, our professors, our fellow students in our universities, our business associates, our friends and lovers, but behind the scenes they religiously follow an ideology that commands them to kill us." (Maybe this is a Hilly quotation?)

Message:
I'd like to paraphrase that a bit, to address a more serious and immediate threat: "They are our neighbors, our professors, our fellow students in our universities, our business associates, our friends and lovers, but behind the scenes they religiously follow an ideology that commands them to substitute their irrational dogma for our Constitutional freedoms and right to free choice in all things."

Hillary, I've waded through more than a year of your fan mail to reach this point. It was most enlightening, this exercise in "electronic democracy" of yours. It's clear to me that the vast majority of those who posted messages share my feelings about you, and the grand ideology and new ideas which you represent. But in my humble opinion, it really is not fair the way you have been politically saving yourself on this not-so-level playing field of New York state politics. A gasping, panting nation is demanding its fair share of time with you, in privacy, behind the curtains of voting booths at thousands of locations across the land.

Please be brave and come out. Let us have our electoral way with you. Millions of Americans want to express their degree of confidence in your leadership, judgement, patriotism and political future. They are tired of all this local and regional foreplay, and want to get on with the main event. Yes, maybe 2004 is a little too soon, and some might argue that we all needed to get to know each other a bit better. But time is flying and we are all getting older. The future is now. Bill has led us across that bridge to the next century, but now it is time for you to pick up the torch, lead us out of the darkness, and point the way into the darkness.

An entire nation is crying out for the chance to put an "X" in the box on that presidential ballot, whichever box is immediately above or below your name. Please be more sharing of yourself in 2008. The turnout of motivated voters could break all records, if in your campaigning you come through and deliver, as we all know you can. Anybody who enjoys the trust, loyalty, and moral support of William Jefferson Clinton, as we have seen that you do, is certainly hewn from presidential timber. (Please pardon me for a moment, while I dodge an apparent incoming bolt of lightning.)

Name:	Sul Rost
To:	forum
Re:	Fighting Terrorism worldwide not easy ...volunteers best.

In response to:
All about that Democrat draft bill that was introduced out of the milk of human kindness.

Message:
Reinstating the military draft Walter E. Williams (archive) May 5, 2004 | Print | Send Last year, Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-S.C.) and Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) introduced bills calling for reinstatement of the military draft. A far more descriptive term for the military draft is government confiscation of labor services, but keeping with the spirit of euphemistic obfuscation, I'll stick to the term draft. Let's first ask why a draft would be needed in the first place.

Rest assured that if the military offered a compensation package of, say, $50,000 to $100,000 a year, it could get all the soldiers it wanted. Thus, lesson No. 1 is that whenever there's a draft, you know that the wage is too low to get a sufficient number of people to voluntarily supply their labor services.

Sen. Hollings said, "One way to avoid a lot more wars is to institute the draft." That's a statement that reflects gross economic ignorance. In terms of incentives, it produces the opposite effect. Why? The draft is used because the wage the military offers isn't high enough to get what's deemed as a sufficient number of people to volunteer.

Here's my no-brainer question: Under which scenario is war cheaper for the Defense Department -- the volunteer army or the draft? Obviously, it's the draft since the Defense Department doesn't have to pay the higher wages to get men to sign up voluntarily. Since the Defense Department has a smaller manpower expense, the draft disguises the true cost of war, and one would expect more, not less, military adventurism.

Waging war requires much more than soldiers. You need tanks, bombs, bullets and aircraft. Have you heard a call to draft $15 million F-15 fighter jets or $4.3 million M1 Abrams Main Battle Tanks? I haven't. The reason is that the government pays the kind of prices whereby producers voluntarily supply these products. Of course, if the Pentagon were willing to pay McDonnell Douglas only $5 million for an F-15 and General Dynamics only $1 million for a tank, it would have to draft (read: confiscate) jets and tanks.

Does one have a duty to defend his country? I say yes. In order to field one soldier, I'm guessing you need hundreds of civilian workers to supply him with boots, food, bullets, tanks, jets, medical equipment and thousands of other items needed in war in addition to soldiers. Thus, if you're engaged in producing these items, you are participating in the defense of your country.

Being employed producing the hardware for the defense of our country need not be voluntary. The government could send us draft notices ordering us to report for work at General Dynamics' Texas track-vehicle facility at $400 a month. If the government did this, would you call it a draft or slave labor? Not to worry, the Defense Department offers attractive contracts to firms like McDonnell Douglas and General Dynamics, and they in turn offer attractive wages to employees, and thus, volunteerism gets the right number of workers to make the right number of jets and tanks.

The Defense Department might argue that a draft is needed because it would be too expensive to pay market wages to get the desired number of soldiers. It would be right so far as the military budget is concerned but wrong when it comes to military's true cost to the nation. The true cost of a soldier in the army is the value of what he could have produced, and society must sacrifice, were he not in the army -- what economists call “opportunity cost.” Even if the military paid the soldier nothing, the nation must forgo what the soldier could have produced were he not in the military.

National defense is an important government function; for rational decision-making, we mustn't permit concealment of its cost through measures like the draft.

Name:	Abuse and the Army
Re:	The military, not CBS, discovered the outrages at Abu Ghraib.

Message:

Thursday, May 6, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

As President Bush and everyone else in America has said, any abuse of Iraqi prisoners is "abhorrent" and should be punished. Yet it seems to us that an overlooked story here, and ultimately the most telling, is the degree to which the U.S. military is investigating itself and holding people accountable.

This isn't a popular thought just now, with the media and politicians in one of their bonfire phases. Every accusation against U.S. troops is now getting front-page treatment. Like reporters at a free buffet, Members of Congress are swarming to the TV cameras to declare their outrage and demand someone's head, usually Donald Rumsfeld's. "System of abuse" and "cover-up" are being tossed about without any evidence of either. The goal seems to be less to punish the offenders than to grab one more reason to discredit the Iraq war.

For a sense of proportion, let's rehearse the timeline here. While some accusations of abuse go back to 2002 in Afghanistan, the incidents at Abu Ghraib that triggered this week's news occurred last autumn. They came to light through the chain of command in Iraq on January 13. An Army criminal probe began a day later. Two days after that, the U.S. Central Command disclosed in a press release that "an investigation has been initiated into reported incidents of detainee abuse at a Coalition Forces detention facility." By March 20, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt was able to announce in Baghdad that criminal charges had been brought against six soldiers in the probe.

By the end of January, meanwhile, Major General Antonio Taguba was appointed to conduct his separate "administrative" probe of procedures at Abu Ghraib. It is his report, complete with its incriminating photos, that is the basis for the past week's news reports. The press didn't break this story based on months of sleuthing but was served up the results of the Army's own investigation.

By February, the Secretary of the Army had ordered the service's inspector general to assess the doctrine and training for detention operations within all of CentCom. A month after that, another probe began into Army Reserve training, especially military police and intelligence. Those reports will presumably also be leaked and reported on, or at least they will be if they reach negative conclusions.

This is a cover-up? Unlike the Catholic bishops, some corporate boards and the editors of the New York Times or USA Today, the military brass did not dismiss early allegations of bad behavior. Instead, it established reviews and procedures that have uncovered the very details that are now used by critics to indict the Pentagon "system." It has done so, moreover, amid a war against a deadly insurgency in which interrogation to gain good intelligence is critical to victory--and to saving American lives.

None of this is to dismiss or rationalize the abuse reports. Accountability has to run beyond the soldiers immediately responsible and up the Army and intelligence chains of command. The Abu Ghraib procedures were clearly inadequate to a situation in which interrogators were given so much control over the fates of individual prisoners. Especially in a war on terror that will be long and require effective interrogation, this is unacceptable.

Reprimands have already been issued and careers ended, but courts martial can't be ruled out. President Bush's explanation to Arab media yesterday may help our public image, especially given that their own governments rarely admit mistakes. But the best way to impress Iraqis about U.S. purposes is to show that Americans guilty of abuse are being punished, and with more than letters of reprimand.

To start impugning the entire Army and Pentagon, however, is both wrong and dangerous. The majority of American soldiers are professional, disciplined and are risking their lives to win a war. (Note to those who want to revive the draft: If this could happen in today's highly trained volunteer force, imagine the risks in Senator Chuck Hagel's Army of conscripts.)

Another bizarre notion is that Abu Ghraib happened because the Pentagon decided to hold "enemy combatants" under other than "prisoner of war" status. Those detainees are still given Geneva Convention treatment, as well as visits by the Red Cross. The Pentagon has avoided formal Geneva Convention status because it doesn't want al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners to be able to hide behind "name, rank and serial number." As terrorists who attacked civilians and didn't wear a uniform, they also don't deserve the privileges of real soldiers. In any case, the soldiers who posed in those Abu Ghraib photos were clearly too thick to know any of this.

The military has its faults and bad actors, but over the decades it has shown itself to be one of America's most accountable institutions. The Abu Ghraib episode is another test of its fortitude. But the political class would do well to heed Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman, who said yesterday that "this immoral behavior in no way eliminates the justice of our cause in Iraq."

Name:	Maid Marianne
To:	PWT

In response to:
Jobs

Message:
The family almost never gets in before 5 or 6, so when I have everything in order and the mail and papers laid out, I turn on the big screen and watch Oprah.

Name:	Editor
To:	PhilOhio
Re:	Forum #827 kick-off header

In response to:
Your web editor's Forum #827 kick-off header, alluding to Arab terrorists planted around us in the United States, I guess: "They are our neighbors, our professors, our fellow students in our universities, our business associates, our friends and lovers, but behind the scenes they religiously follow an ideology that commands them to kill us." (Maybe this is a Hilly quotation?)

Message:
Thank you for the compliment. That was my quote. But I do believe Hillary would say the same thing, in private.

Name:	Right Wing Pirahna #3
To:	Individual

Message:
LBJ did not serve in the Pacific during WW II.

8^)

Name:	Barranquito Fuentes
To:	Right Wing
Re:	El BJ

In response to:
LBJ did not serve in the Pacific during WW II.

Message:
He wasn't squeamish about killing, though. He had some guy bumped off in south Texas back around 1949.

Name:	Receiver of severl El BJs
To:	Did you ever?

Message:
Ever take your kid to a distant rock concert only to find that the TICKETMASTER KNOTHEADs both gave you the wrong street address and you wasted 45 minutes asking directions from a feminist cop on horseback who wasn't about to clue you in, called another clueless person, and sent you to get lost some more. The boondocks parking cops had to give you directions. Double parking was ignored, standing was ignored fortunately and the ticket buy was smooth as silk, didn't mind locking the car and presenting photo ID. The killing time reading at a book seller until movie time, cool. Nearby bookstore parking mobbed out, parking across the street OK, at least free. No one tried to run me down in unprotected crosswalk. The PUNISHER could take it as well as dish it out. He didn't always let the bad guys try to kill him first. Sometimes he'd stealth them back! Very anti Puerto Rican but tehy must be used to bad press from Hollywood by now. After all Popeye and gluesniffers crew tortured that retarded fellow in Esquire Magazine a long time ago and got away with it. The writer wasn't about to do a John F****** Kerry squeel/ fiction number on them.

Name:	Editor
To:	Complaints
Re:	Electronic Democracy

Message:
I'm getting complaints that this is not an Electronic Democracy because we do not carefully preserve everything that gets posted on this forum.

Wrong! This is not only an Electronic Democracy, but we go even further by guaranteeing your anonymity. Very few forums are willing to do that.

The minute your post is published on this forum you have had your opportunity to freely and safely express yourself. No matter how horrible your freedom of expression may be you have had your chance.

But you do you have the right to force us to preserve your post in the archives forever. Where does it say that freedom of expression means that your expression must be preserved forever? It only means that you are free to express yourself safely.

We must, of necessity, remove offensive posts, repetitive posts, ad hominem attacks, etc. If we did not remove them the next poster feels that he or she must get even more offensive to respond to the offender, with the result that this forum eventually sinks down into the sewer.

If you feel that what you post is extremely important I am willing to give you a forum exactly like this all to yourself - for free. You can post on that forum all day long and I won't delete you, but this forum is mine.

Name:	The American People
To:	Individual and the Left Wing Propaganda Team

Message:
I see the Editor is working overtime to censor this forum into a DU clone.

I see the Democrat ChickenHawk list was censored but the BS GOP ChickenHawk list is still up. Sad. We point out most of our last wars were started by Democrat ChickenHawks and the Editor censors the information.

Now onto Individual's lies

There was no war for Wilson to fight in; no chicken here

Lie. He could have served in the Spanish American war. Wilson was never in the military.

Roosevelt was 4-f obviously; no chicken here

Lie. FDR was stricken with poliomyelitis in the summer of 1921 when he was 39, FDR could have served in World War I.

LBJ did serve in the Pacific during 1941-42, but was called home when Roosevelt recalled those serving in Congress; no chicken here

Very much like President Bush, LBJ served in the Reserves and never saw combat. If President Bush is a ChickenHawk, so is LBJ and LBJ is responsible for the deaths of many more soldiers.

Clinton was a war protestor; the number of soldiers lost under his administration was virtually none

Bill Clinton lied to avoid the draft. Of all modern politicians, Bill Clinton is clearly the biggest ChickenHawk of them all.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Government debt, he added, was more worrisome. "Our fiscal prospects are, in my judgment, a significant obstacle to long-term stability because the budget deficit is not readily subject to correction by market forces that stabilize other imbalances," Greenspan said.

Message:
Finally. Someone who is telling it like it is rather than how Bush wishes it would be. That old republican BS that we can grow our way out of deficits is just that, BS. We found that out under Reagan. And we don't need another lesson, thank you, Mr. Bush.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Smedley

In response to:
The most interesting thing about those federal rules changes is that they were drafted during the Clinton administration. A more interesting issue about those changes is that they were made by a federal administration and didn't require Bush to do a single thing to implement.

Could you post a URL, please. I would deeply appreciate it, and would like to know what rag is slanting the facts this badly.

Message:
Smedley, here's the link and it's not a rag: Senator Clinton

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Bill Clinton is clearly the biggest ChickenHawk of them all.

Message:
Under Clinton, there were virtually no deaths of American soldiers. Therefore, he has nothing to answer to American soldiers about his own war record. Under Bush, on the other hand, there are continuing deaths of American soldiers. He definitely has something to answer to American soldiers about his own war record.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Smedley

In response to:
Interesting take!

Senator Clinton opposed a tax break for the average family, but shrieks when a federal rules change affects overtime pay ...

While the Administration attempts to downplay the impact of its efforts, Senator Clinton said the average cut in pay will be $161 per week.

$161/week?

I've actually looked at this issue before. Hillary Supporter, suppose that I could PROVE that Senator Clinton is lying.

Would you abrogate your support?

Message:
So where's this proof that you say you have?

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
Under Clinton, there were virtually no deaths of American soldiers. Therefore, he has nothing to answer to American soldiers about his own war record. Under Bush, on the other hand, there are continuing deaths of American soldiers. He definitely has something to answer to American soldiers about his own war record

Message:
That is true!!

Name:

The American People

In response to:
Under Clinton, there were virtually no deaths of American soldiers. Therefore, he has nothing to answer to American soldiers about his own war record. Under Bush, on the other hand, there are continuing deaths of American soldiers. He definitely has something to answer to American soldiers about his own war record.

Message:
You are such a lying weasel.

Your list of so-called GOP CHICKENHAWKS is 100% full of people that were not president or in a position to order troops therefore ZERO deaths of American soldiers happened under them. You are merely applying different rules to the Right like a good propaganda parrot hypocrite.

Name:	Individual Supporter
To:	Individual

In response to:
Under Clinton, there were virtually no deaths of American soldiers. Therefore, he has nothing to answer to American soldiers about his own war record. Under Bush, on the other hand, there are continuing deaths of American soldiers. He definitely has something to answer to American soldiers about his own war record.

Message:
Well said, Individual.

How many soldiers have we lost in Iraq so far? I think it's close to 700. At this point we don't even know whether it was worth losing 700 lives. What are we getting in return? We can only hope they did not die in vain and that the future will bring good news.

Name:	Wanna Bet
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
So where's this proof that you say you have?

Message:
Don't hold your breath. Smedley is not interested in truth or proof. His only objective is winning.

Name:

Observer

Message:
Bill Clinton was not a chicken hawk. He was just plain chicken as evidenced by his inaction in dealing with terrorists.

Name:	PWT
To:	individual and his butt buddy individual supporter

In response to:
Under Clinton, there were virtually no deaths of American soldiers

Message:
An empty statistic as usual. If, you could demonstrate that there were no deaths of american soldiers during Clinton's term while also stating that significant, or any progress, was made combating terror and terrorist activites, then you would have mand a valuable and quantifiable statement. However, without any qualifier, your statement is meaningless as usual.

Individual supporter, you truly set your sights low when picking heros. Does he masturbate and chant "Clinton was a miracle" while you toss his salad?

Name:	The American People
To:	Individual, left wing weasel

In response to:
Under Clinton, there were virtually no deaths of American soldiers. Therefore, he has nothing to answer to American soldiers about his own war record

Message:
Humans Killed in some of ChickenHawk Clinton's wars

Somalia: 18 US Soldiers killed.

Kosovo: Bill Clinton's War killed 500 civilians. (Is it OK for Democrat ChickenHawks to kill civiliansm, John Kerry admited he killed civilians)

So Individual, how many soldiers and civilians does a Left Wing ChickenHawk have to kill before you rate them as a ChickenHawk?

Name:	Right Wing Pirahna #3
To:	Individual

In response to:
"Under Clinton, there were virtually no deaths of American soldiers."

Message:
So virtually, Somolia never happened.

And in the USS Cole incident the dead weren't American soldiers, they were AMerican saliors...

8^)

Name:	Why John Kerry will never be president
Re:	PurpleHeartGate

Message:

Kerry's wound not from battle, Navy doc told

By Stephen Braun
Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON - A former Navy doctor who says he treated Sen. John Kerry for the wound that led to his first Purple Heart in Vietnam said Tuesday that several of Kerry's crewmates told him at the time that the injury did not occur in battle. Dr. Louis Letson, a retired Alabama physician who was medical officer at the Naval Support Facility at Cam Ranh Bay, said the crew's "confided" story contradicted Kerry's own report in December 1968 that he was wounded during a river firefight between his Swift boat and Vietcong gunmen ashore.

The doctor's account surfaced as part of a barrage of criticism of Kerry by former Swift gunboat officers who gathered in Washington to press the likely Democratic nominee to authorize the release of his wartime records to the public. Kerry did not respond directly, but campaign officials angrily dismissed Letson's account and questioned why another medical official's signature appeared on Kerry's own records of his treatment for the wound. The Kerry campaign also said it has already posted online a copy of all official documents Kerry received from the Navy in his military file. Campaign spokesman Michael Meehan suggested that, "if these people have different recollections 35 years later of what they saw or signed, they ought to take it up with the U.S. Navy." Several of Kerry's former Swift boat crewmates also appeared in Washington to stoutly defend the Massachusetts senator. Drew Whitlow, an Arkansas man who served as rear gunner on one of the Swift boat's Kerry commanded, said critics "are entitled to their opinions, but I served alongside of the man. I know exactly what he was like. And I know the integrity and compassion he had."

More

Name:

Forum Fan

In response to:
"Under Clinton, there were virtually no deaths of American soldiers."

Message:
Tell that to the 18 families of the soldiers killed in ChickenHawk Bill Clinton's Somolia military disaster.

Name:

magpie

Message:
Hillary is a chicken hawk. Bill is chicken shit. According to the democrats around here standards that is.

Name:

magpie

Message:
I'm with ann coulter and find it kind of refreshing that the democrats are suddenly johnny come lately jock sniffers for the military. Just a few years ago they were all monsters whom they loathed and the only military things you heard were tales of torture-helicopter drops and massacres.

Welcome to reality you johnny come lately jock sniffers!

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Tell that to the 18 families of the soldiers killed in ChickenHawk Bill Clinton's Somolia military disaster.

Message:
A true right wing extremist. Look up "virtually." You should know the meaning of the word if you got past the 6th grade.

Name:	magpie
To:	spindividual

Message:
You have yet to explain how the clinton/gore miracle team got us into a recession while having a budget surplus. Come on! give it a shot! You have nothing to lose as everyone already knows your full of crap.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
An empty statistic as usual. If, you could demonstrate that there were no deaths of american soldiers during Clinton's term while also stating that significant, or any progress, was made combating terror and terrorist activites, then you would have mand a valuable and quantifiable statement. However, without any qualifier, your statement is meaningless as usual.

Message:
As usual, the right wing extremists eschew facts for their cockeyed interpretations. Under Clinton, we never had a disaster the magnitude of 9-11. This is a fact. Under Clinton, we were able to bring the Milo the monster to justice without a huge commitment of ground troops and losing a lot of soldiers. Not only was Clinton an economic miracle, he was a military miracle as well. Or at least the families that might have been lost if Clinton had made a huge commitment of ground troops would think. They say, every day, thank God for Clinton.

Name:	Debbie Daniel
Re:	I Am So Confused . . . Would Someone Please Explain?

Message:
I know good and well not to start a column like this – but what the heck – these liberals are having a heyday at the expense of our country’s security, so just like John Kerry says . . . “Bring it on . . . Baby!” (I added the “baby” part).

As horrific as it was to hear the news of torture and abuse to Iraqi prisoners, wasn’t it the same kind of abuse John Kerry admitted to committing on the Vietnamese thirty years ago? What am I missing?

It seems like I heard him say things like: “personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”

Not that John Kerry doing these criminal acts alongside his buddies made it right . . . but after hearing almost the same report this weekend, I must say, I am confused.

The only difference . . . John Kerry didn’t have the still shots or videos, he just laid it all out to the U.S. Congress in as graphic detail as possible. He can certainly be attributed for creating the myth of the American soldier as a monster.

In the early 1970s, Kerry once denounced the United States of America as “the real criminal” in the Vietnam War. He condemned the entire country, according to the Baltimore Sun.

Hey folks, that’s you and me . . . did you cut someone’s ears off? I didn’t. And I’m not a criminal, Mr. Kerry. But I guess you needed to blame someone, so . . . okay Johnny, if it makes you feel better.

The Sun also revisited other anti-war comments by Kerry: “I committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of others,” he told the newspaper.

So when we throw these soldiers in prison, who committed these abusive atrocities against prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, maybe we ought to throw Mr. Kerry in there with them.

So, can you see why I’m confused? Which is it? Is it right for Kerry, but wrong for these soldiers?

And now to more questions, but on a much lighter note. Why is Jim McDermott acting so high and mighty that he can’t say “Under God” while leading a session of Congress in the Pledge of Allegiance? He blamed his childhood . . . “I learned it the other way as a boy.” Well, bless his heart . . . how old is he now; and how many times has he said the pledge with “Under God” since then?

He can certainly say, “So help me God” in taking the oath of the Senate; so where does he get off picking and choosing when he will, or when he won’t make reference to “God.”

Sounds confusing to me!

And if you’re starting to be concerned about my state of mind, I have more. I’m appalled at how we expect the average American to understand what in the world our Congressional leaders are doing in Washington.

And to think they give themselves an automatic pay raise every year. They’ve had six raises totaling $24,500 since January of 1998. And no one calls them on it. It just “happens” on its own. They would have to vote against it to stop it.

While many of us have been hurt by the economy since 9/11, the Congress has had an average pay raise of $4,333 a year. Not only is that hard to understand . . . it’s deplorable.

It’s amazing to me we don’t have a 21st Century uprising. I’ve never seen such hypocrisy.

The 9/11 Commission was so emphatic about their responsibility to get to the core of this grave event in our nation’s history. Why, they’ve made just about every person having anything to do with this administration, or the last, come forward and testify to the grueling interrogation of this intimidating group.

They convinced all of us that this is probably the most important commission ever assembled for such a serious matter as the deaths of 3,000 Americans. It is they who will determine whether our s were killed by the inattentiveness of George Bush or the hate of Osama bin Laden.

But it was Bob Kerry and Lee Hamilton, two commission members, who seemed to be inattentive. They walked out while the President of the United States was testifying. Something more important must have come up. Well, so much for the seriousness of this commission. I’m confused again.

Thirty years ago the case of Roe v. Wade brought about the freedom for women everywhere to choose death or life for their unborn baby. So, why in the world did 850,000 women converge on Washington, D.C., April 25, 2004, to announce to the world that they wanted George W. Bush out of their uteruses.

I’ve never seen one man have so much power. George Bush against 850,000 women . . . that’s really confusing. Are they afraid of him? I think the man is actually a bit outnumbered dear ladies, but yet you fear him.

It’s like the story in the Bible of young David against the Giant Goliath. You know what happens when God is on your side. If you don’t, you will soon.

And it makes me wonder if it isn’t God himself who is having such a powerful influence on these women; because it seems they are constantly fighting against “something,” and George Bush is the easy target.

Could it be the Almighty God? In Psalms 139:13-14 the Bible says, “For you have formed my inward parts. You covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.”

Those words say it all. And to think they believe it’s George Bush trying to convict their hearts. No! It’s the word of God that’s convicting.

Ladies, I don’t think you should, but go on with your rallies, because I’m still confused as to why you even meet. The law’s on your side . . . remember? Why are you afraid?

Inasmuch as you believe it’s just a “blob of tissue,” that’s an argument only you and God above will have to discuss.

Personally, I believe the choice should start in the bedroom when you “choose” to have your moment of pleasure. But, it’s easier to get rid of that “innocuous tissue” than to deny yourself any sexual indulgence, huh?

Confusing? No! Disturbing? Yes!

I understand that more soldiers died in a training exercise during World War II than have died in a year’s fighting in Iraq.

And it seems that even though almost all of our nation’s leadership believed there were weapons of mass destruction, it was George Bush’s responsibility to know whether or not the information was right.

Very confusing . . . .

I question the former First Lady (Hillary Clinton) usurping a sitting President’s authority by saying his stubbornness and arrogance are breathtaking . . . that he is de-stabilizing the Middle East.

Hillary’s words may not be measured as a U.S. Senator, but her legacy as a former first lady is certainly in question. You would think she’d know better, but Bush-bashing takes precedence.

One quick question: “If it was Japan that attacked us at Pearl Harbor in 1941, why did we declare war on Germany four days later?” Now doesn’t that give you pause?

I’m really confused, but don’t mind me, I’m just searching for some answers.

Name:	Individual
Re:	LBJ

Message:
I think that LBJ should have refused to go to the Pacific. He should have insisted on staying in Texas like other chickenhawks have. And he never should have heeded Roosevelt's order to return to Washington. Roosevelt was only the commander-in-chief at the time.

Name:

Milo the Monster

In response to:
Under Clinton, we were able to bring the Milo the monster to justice without a huge commitment of ground troops and losing a lot of soldiers.

Message:
Show me....THOSE DEATH CAMPS...

Name:

A Question For The NEA

Message:
What does schoolteaching have to do with infanticide?

Name:	Sudanese Janitor
To:	Individual

Message:
Why did Clinton kill me?

Name:	Right Wing Pirahna #3
To:	Individual

Message:
LBJ never served in the Pacific in WW II!

8^)

Name:

////***\\\\

In response to:
Why did Clinton kill me?

Message:
What's it like to be dead?

Name:

WHO IS MICHAEL SAVAGE?

In response to:
A PhD --- in Herbal Medicine

spent 18 years avoiding the Draft for Viet Nam.

Message:

WHO IS DR. SAVAGE? (Savage Nation)

Michael Savage, (actually Michael Alan Weiner), was born near 1941 in New York.

Like Rush Limbaugh, he runs a radical right wing Radio talk show, and spends most of his time bashing liberals, Democrats, and any others who oppose his ideology. For this show, he calls himself Michael Savage, and the show is named "The Savage Nation".

Michael has a pleasant radio voice, and a down-home manner sometimes, which is not hard to listen to. I wish he would stick to his area of expertise, "herbal medicine", instead of going into radical Politics. But I guess that politics PAYS better, than cough RX recipes.

Michael spews vicious attacks and right wing mind-numbing rhetoric on most of his shows, and threatens to nuke other countries, and to PUNISH War Protestors, by calling them every name, "unpatriotic, unAmerican, "Commies", "red diaper Doper babies", etc.

BUT WHERE was Michael Weiner aka Savage during the Viet Nam War?

Just before the war got started real well, Mike was getting his BS degree from Queens College, - City Univ of NY, --- 1963.

Later he got an (MS) degree from the University of Hawaii ---- 1970.

The war was still going on, so he stayed and got an (MA) at Univ of Hawaii --- 1972.

Then, he supposedly spent a long time at the Fiji Islands, (a tropical paradise) studying herbs, plants, & "ethno-medicine" -- which is sort of native "herbology" --- and then took this expertise back to get his (Ph D) in "Nutritional Ethno-medicine" from the University of Calif @ Berkeley ---- in 1978.

Thus, he managed to spend MOST of the time from 1960 to 1978, (age 19 to age 37) at one or another college, or studying herbs on a tropical island.

Notice that by age 21, he was no longer interested in his native New York, but wanted to experience a "warm climate", (as long as it was not in the jungles of Viet Nam) --- so he went to the University of Hawaii, (3 yrs +) and then off to the Fiji Islands (tropical resort & tourist trap) for another few years, (the natives all speak English) -- & back to the warm friendly climate at the University of Calif at Berkeley. (which is located in the "liberal" Los Angeles area).

After successfully evading any combat, as there WAS a DRAFT going on back then, he managed somehow to go into Political Radio for his career. But while on that radio show, he NOW bashes anyone for "opposing the Iraq War' as being unpatriotic?   HA HA HA HA

I have never been to the Fiji Islands, but I can say "bula" (pronounced boo-la) which means "hello". I have never been there, but I know most of the people speak English, & all the signs & forms are in English. I also know the main drink of that island is "kava" which is an herbal form of coffee, taken from the root of the Piper Methysticum plant, ground into powder and added to water, & sifted thru a cloth, --- it is the universal drink over there, for social occasions, ceremonies, etc. Also the kava plant is an herbal remedy, since it contains "lactone', which is a relaxant, a pain reliever, a diuretic, & a sedative.

Since Michael Weiner (aka Savage) is one of those Republicans who bangs the drums of war loudly, calling everyone who opposed the war in Iraq a dishonorable name, threatening that they should all be jailed, & worse, ---- let us all remember how Michael spent 15 years evading the Draft for Viet Nam. Shall we?

A CHICKEN HAWK, for sure.

Michael is not just any ordinary radio talk show host, ---- NO -- he screams at people who disagree with him, or else screens them out from ever speaking on his show. (censorship)

But his wild rhetoric, and extremist views have often been compared to Hitler and to his Nazi Propaganda Minister, Goebbels:

***** HITLER: Used goon squads to intimidate his opponents.

***** DR. SAVAGE: "If they [the activists organizing against him] should succeed in driving me away from radio", that he would "release their names and addresses", and not be "responsible for the consequences": -- "if you harm me, I pray that no harm comes to you, but I can't guarantee that it won't."

***-- Dr. Savage also said he plans to organize counter demonstrations against the people who protest the war against Iraq.. He followed this up with a remark, which was a threat of bodily harm to the peace activists.

A THREATENING VIOLENT Pro-War guy who wants to imprison & cause bodily harm to those who opposed the Iraq War ---- but at the same time -- he chickened out of Viet Nam.

Anyone who loves a warm climate like Mike Savage obviously did, should have spent a little while studying jungle herbs over there. That might have been of some benefit to our American wounded soldiers in SE Asia.

Name:	We Wanna Know
To:	Frankie the Lout Lautenberg

Message:
Who took Bill's place in jungles of 'Nam after he wrangled his chickensh!t momma's boy @ss outta the ROTC?

Name:	magpie
To:	debbie

In response to:
I Am So Confused . . . Would Someone Please Explain?

Message:
It's easy. Allow me to explain. There is a double standard of moral relativity that the dems thrive on. They have absolutly no morals so when the opposition shows their morality-it gets thrown up in their face. Some examples are:

1) Lott praising Thurmond and having to resign and having to go on BET and prostating himself while Dodd praise Byrd and not a peep.

2) Individual calling Bush a chicken shit for being in the national guad while jerking off to Clinton who is a coward and draft dodger.

3) Hillary cracking jokes about Ghandi and wogs to blacks to curry (no pun intended) favor while screaming like stuck hogs if a republican did it.

4) Having a 'march for wimmins lives' while fighting like hell to have the right to suck the brains out of some of them

5) Calling the president dumb for deficit spending while praising the clinton/gore miracle team for giving us a recession while having a surplus.

6) Kerry saying he wants to be the education president and spend more money when there is absolutly no corelation between money and preformance (teacher union pandering).

7) Hillary yacking about the health care crises while not acknowledging even once the need for some kind of tort reform from frivalous lawsuits (trial lawyer pandering)>

I could go on for days-but I think you get the picture.

Name:	Al qaeda warrior
To:	forum
Re:	Forget giving me liberty, I'll take death!

In response to:
Death is a long tradition of Islam. To really have any fun, one must die a martyr. One of my brothers said it all for TV cameras. "I'd rather be shot than degraded and humiliated." There is no paradise for the humiliated or abused. So just kill me after I do these favors for many of Americans in Iraq.

Message:
We Iraqis do not know this liberty, what is that? Mohammad said nothing of liberty or this freedom you talk of. Death I can understand. Death is tradition itself. You stupid Americans lock up 7800 of us, have to tolerate our humiliation of you. All you can do is strip search us, slap us like women, and threaten us with Saddam's clean torture prods, pincers, and wires. You dare do nothing because you are nothing. We do as we please with our captives. We do as our people expect us to do. You cannot. Who is really free here,eh? Hahahahahaha. Your own people will humiliate all the guards and Americans FOR US. Sure we used a Japanese or two to fake some photos. Your own reporters are like jackels awaiting fresh blood. But it is YOUR BLOOD. Hahahahahahaha The appologies show us how weak you are and how chained YOU ARE! Small wonder I prefer death to your freedom. I have freedom and much gain in death. You have only humiliation in life because you must follow our rules.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Could it be the Almighty God? In Psalms 139:13-14 the Bible says, “For you have formed my inward parts. You covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.”

Message:
Is this Biblical passage as inaccurate as the one in Genesis which says:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

If it is, it isn't worth the paper it is written on. So...

Name:	Uncle Sam
To:	Little Squealer

In response to:
Michael Savage

Message:
If you don't like the program, don't listen to it. Where were you in 1963-74? Studying Michael Weiner's every move?

Name:

we return you now to Bill Clinton's unfinished Kosovo War (already in progress)

Message:

...we return you now to Bill Clinton's unfinished Kosovo War (already in progress)

Kosovo UN troops 'fuel sex trade'

BBC

The presence of peacekeepers in Kosovo is fuelling the sexual exploitation of women and encouraging trafficking, according to Amnesty International. It claims UN and Nato troops in the region are using the trafficked women and girls for sex and some have been involved in trafficking itself.

Amnesty says girls as young as 11 from eastern European countries are being sold into the sex slavery

More

Name:	WHAMPOA!!!!!!
To:	Individual Marxist

In response to:
The parrot is going through her repertoire yet again...

Message:
Where is the inaccuracy, oh believer in MIRACLES? Point out the inaccuracy or shut up about it.

Name:	The American People
To:	Individual, left wing weasel

In response to:
A true right wing extremist. Look up "virtually." You should know the meaning of the word if you got past the 6th grade.

Message:
What a left wing idiot.

So Individual, you are claiming those 18 dead soldiers were virtually forgotten by Bill Clinton and Left Wing Extremists.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
2) Individual calling Bush a chicken for being in the national guad while jerking off to Clinton who is a coward and draft dodger.

Message:
I retracted my statement that Bush was a chicken. I amended it to be: Bush, who was in favor of the war, made a decision which would virtually guarantee that he would not go in harm's way. Some people would call this being a chicken because he favored the war but opted out. People can make their own decision about whether Bush was a yellow-belly.

Clinton, on the other hand, was a war protestor. He made a decision in keeping with being against the war.

Name:	Marvin Mankins
To:	Individual
Re:	Killers!!

In response to:
I think that LBJ should have refused to go to the Pacific. He should have insisted on staying in Texas like other chickenhawks have. And he never should have heeded Roosevelt's order to return to Washington. Roosevelt was only the commander-in-chief at the time.

Message:
LBJ was a KILLER. He had a man killed in Texas years back. Roosevelt's son shot a man on an ocean liner about 1960. Democrats do their KILLING out of uniform!

Name:	The American People
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
Under Clinton, we never had a disaster the magnitude of 9-11.

Message:
Most people agree Bill Clinton's weakness transformed America into a Paper Tiger and this caused 9-11. Maybe 9-11 did not happen under Clinton, but he did help cause it.

Clinton's presidency is littered with terrorist attacks on Americans and American interest.

Since 9-11 and Bush taking charge there has been ZERO terrorist attacks against the US and this is the best record since 1969.

Put that in your left wing extremist bong and take a big hit.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
So Individual, you are claiming those 18 dead soldiers were virtually forgotten by Bill Clinton and Left Wing Extremists.

Message:
No. I am saying as a fact that, compared to the Bush debacle, the conflicts that Clinton was involved in yielded virtually (not actually) no American deaths. Again, look up virtually. Bush was a chickenhawk as regards the war in Vietnam. He was in favor of the war, yet he did his best to avoid combat.

Name:	magpie
To:	spin
Re:	virtually

Message:
is that your neveau slimey qualifier for pimping the DNC?

Is that anything like: virtually all democrats are as dumb as mud bricks.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Most people agree Bill Clinton's weakness transformed America into a Paper Tiger and this caused 9-11. Maybe 9-11 did not happen under Clinton, but he did help cause it.

Message:
Typical right wing extremist. Counter facts with speculation.

Name:	Miss Lutie
To:	Individual
Re:	How many civilians starved and froze in Clinton's WAR???

In response to:
A very low form of life!

Message:
I retracted my statement that Bush was a chicken. That doesn't change the fact that you are a liar and a hypocrite of the first order, you combat-dodging, anti-religious, insincere, soldier-disrespecting PASTOR'S ASSISTANT!!

Name:	PWT
To:	individual

In response to:
As usual, the right wing extremists eschew facts for their cockeyed interpretations. Under Clinton, we never had a disaster the magnitude of 9-11. This is a fact. Under Clinton, we were able to bring the Milo the monster to justice without a huge commitment of ground troops and losing a lot of soldiers

Message:
I accept your statements. However, "Milo" did not sponsor terrorist groups that targeted the United States. Bringing him to justice did nothing to make America safe from Islamic Terrorists who had already attacked the US, WTC 1993, the USS Cole and the Khobar Towers.

I will repeat, Mr. Clinton did little to nothing to prevent terrorist attacks on the US by Islamic terrorist groups. Of course, there were no military deaths but there was no progress or preventative measures either. By your logic, the phrase "I went to work yesterday and didn't expend any energy" is considered a positive. But, like your statement, "there were no military deaths under President Clinton", the statement must be quantified. It is a positive statement if you can say, "I went to work yesterday and didn't expend any energy but still got as much or more done than I usually would". It would be negative to say, "I went to work yesterday, didn't expend any energy and got nothing done". To say simply, "I went to work yesterday and didn't expend any energy" is meaningless because there is no qulifier.

Just to make it easy for you, would you say that Mr. Clinton accomplished as much in the war on terror as Mr. Bush even though 700 soldiers have died during Mr. Bush's term and only about 20 died during Mr. Clinton's term?

Name:	The American People
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
Bush, who was in favor of the war, made a decision which would virtually guarantee that he would not go in harm's way.

Message:
More Bullsh!t from Individual.

Individual caught in a lie again.

25,000 National Guardsmen were ordered into harms way in the Vietnam War (I guess 25,000 is virtually nobody in Individual warped lying mind)

100 National Guardsmen were killed in the Vietnam War

FACT: Bill Clinton lies guaranted he would never serve his country and would never go in harm's way.

The Lord-High King of the ChickenHawks: Bill Clinton

Name:	who is michael savage Basher?
To:	Are you a vet?

In response to:
Most of us are slow to chunk the first rock, but you throw away!

Message:
Maybe you work for a Hurst newspaper and pass judgement on those who don't. I know vets who went to 'Nam and saw no combat. Someone said 7 support for each in the bush afield. Getting a mirror shot off your truck is no picnic. Neither is getting hit with a piece of superficially wounding twisted metal anyone could grunt and self-inflict. "Gee look a here. I'm F*****g wounded, an officer, gimme my Purple F****G heart I had to leave this stuck there for the doc." We know the real story of Kerry, Morning Glory!!

Name:

Smedley

In response to:
The only reason some people don't like Comunists, or Democrats, or Liberals, or etc...... is only because they are opponants of Capitalist's, that is all, period. It is "friend or enemy".

Message:

I NEVER posted anything like this

---

Message:
LIAR. Becoming profficient at flying a military fighter jet IN WARTIME is no way to avoid combat. Becoming an anti-religious and grossly insincere PASTOR'S ASSISTANT most certainly is!!

Name:	Smedley
To:	HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
Smedley, here's the link and it's not a rag: Senator Clinton

Message:

Worse than a rag -- IT's HILLARY'S OWN WEB SITE.

Name:

Bill took us to war under false pretenses

Message:
Where are Milo's death camps?

Name:

><

In response to:
Bill took us to war under false pretenses

Message:
They exist...virtually

Name:	The American People
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
Typical right wing extremist. Counter facts with speculation.

Message:
SPINdividual caught in a lie again.

Allow me to nail your lying butt to the wall:

"After our victory in Afghanistan and the defeat of the oppressors who had killed millions of Muslims, the legend about the invincibility of the superpowers vanished. Our boys no longer viewed America as a superpower. So, when they left Afghanistan, they went to Somalia and prepared themselves carefully for a long war. They had thought that the Americans were like the Russians, so they trained and prepared. They were stunned when they discovered how low was the morale of the American soldier. America had entered with 30,000 soldiers in addition to thousands of soldiers from different countries in the world. ... As I said, our boys were shocked by the low morale of the American soldier and they realized that the American soldier was just a paper tiger. He was unable to endure the strikes that were dealt to his army, so he fled"

-Osama Bin Laden

Name:	Wafer Thin Crust
To:	Dry Heat

Message:
Where is CNN's coverage of the United Nations "Food For Oil" scandal???

Name:	Right Wing Pirahna #3
To:	Individual

In response to:
"Counter facts with speculation."

Message:
LBJ never served in the Pacific during WW II!

8^)

Name:	Social Security Is A Scam!
To:	Smedley
Re:	HILLARY SUPPORTER!!

In response to:
Please don't bother to post anything from a political web site and pass it off as news.

Message:
The poor little thing hasn't a clue. It's probably pointless to upset her with questions. She will simply clench her little fists, stamp her little RED slippers, and scream and SCREAM AND SCREAM!!

Name:	Mr Webster
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
No. I am saying as a fact that, compared to the Bush debacle, the conflicts that Clinton was involved in yielded virtually (not actually) no American deaths. Again, look up virtually. Bush was a chickenhawk as regards the war in Vietnam. He was in favor of the war, yet he did his best to avoid combat.

Message:
OK

Virtually 1. In fact or to all purposes; practically

So you are saying "in fact or to all purposes" the Clinton wars killed no Americans (except the 18 that were killed not to mention the 500 civilians killed in Kosovo)

Virtually 2.Almost but not quite; nearly

So you are saying the Clinton Wars almost but not quite yeilded no American deaths.

Individual, you are full of bullsh!t

Name:	Milan
To:	individual

In response to:
1) Under Clinton, we never had a disaster the magnitude of 9-11.

2) Under Clinton, we were able to bring the Milo the monster to justice without a huge commitment of ground troops and losing a lot of soldiers. Not only was Clinton an economic miracle, he was a military miracle as well. Or at least the families that might have been lost if Clinton had made a huge commitment of ground troops would think.

Message:
1) The fact that 9/11 happened during the Bush administration is irrelevent. The network of terrorist cells and fake charities operating in the U.S. that made this possible was very well documented by Steven Emerson in his prophetic pbs special "Jihad in America" aired in...1995!

The Clinton administration did NOTHING to address this.

The Cole was bombed in Yemen in 2000. The FBI's best investigator, John O'Neill (whose pioneering knowledge of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda made him indispensible), was prevented from returning to Yemen by an incredably stupid U.S. diplomat, Barbara Bodin, and subsequently drummed out by a jealous supervisor, Paul Freer.

Without O'Neill, the Cole investigation ground to a halt ("The Man Who Knew" on Frontline).

Clinton did NOTHING to address this. Even though TWO U.S. EMBASSIES WERE BOMBED TO RUBBLE TWO YEARS EARLIER. How could Clinton allow any investigation of Al Qaeda reach a dean end?

2) By a long shot, Milo was not America's problem. Given that the Balkans did not in ANY WAY represent a threat to America's national security, the death of EVEN ONE U.S. soldier in Yugoslavia would have been unacceptable. In effect, it is morally reprehensible to send Amercan's in harm's way to defend someone else's interests, regardless of the humanitarian goals.

Some may argue that America's intervention on behalf of Muslims gives America "better standing" in the Muslim world.

Yeah right...Look at how they cannot be appeased when the Army condemns and investigates what amounts to little more than hazing of Iraqi POW's.

And how are the Balkans today?

Saudi "charity" is radicalizing Bosnian Muslims, and the King Fahd Mosque in Sarajevo is one of Al Qaeda's primary recruiting places for jihad in Iraq (I saw this on a more recent episode of "Frontline," on liberal pbs, not FOX News)

As for Kosovo, the Kosova Liberation Army is terrorizing the Serbs and burning Chrisitan Churches.

In effect, with the "liberation" of the Balkans, Al Qaeda has gained a major foothold in Europe.

.

In effect, Clinton's record fighting terrorism is no better than Bush's pre-9/11.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
SPINdividual caught in a lie again.

Message:
The facts you cite are what bin Laden thought--not what was the case. Again, interpretation rather than facts about what actually happened. By the way, what did the terrorists think when Reagan played the "cut and run" game in Lebanon? And, under Reagan, we lost hundreds in one attack--hundreds more than under Clinton.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Smedley

In response to:
Worse than a rag -- IT's HILLARY'S OWN WEB SITE. Please don't bother to post anything from a political web site and pass it off as news

Message:
Oh, I get it! Every site out there lies except for NewsMax.com, huh?

LMFAO!!!!!!!!

Name:

Individual

In response to:
2) By a long shot, Milo was not America's problem. Given that the Balkans did not in ANY WAY represent a threat to America's national security, the death of EVEN ONE U.S. soldier in Yugoslavia would have been unacceptable. In effect, it is morally reprehensible to send Amercan's in harm's way to defend someone else's interests, regardless of the humanitarian goals.

Message:
That's exactly what I think. Except I am really gratified that very, very few soldiers were killed. It is the same thing as Iraq. Iraq was no threat to the United States. However, in Iraq we have lost hundreds, and the toll mounts every month. In Iraq, Americans have not gained one thing. The Iraqis may eventually gain a little. But I am sure they will be saddled with an Iranian-type, religious flake government in the end. Not much gain even for Iraqis. A big mistake.

Name:	The American People
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
The facts you cite are what bin Laden thought--not what was the case. Again, interpretation rather than facts about what actually happened.

Message:
Correct, I presented the facts: Osama decided America was a Paper Tiger after Bill Clinton botched Somalia and that is when he started planning for 9-11. What you are saying is merely your personal opinion, your interpretation/spin.

We have noticed you never provide supporting evidence for your statements yet most right wingers do.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	S.S.I.A.S.

In response to:
The poor little thing hasn't a clue. It's probably pointless to upset her with questions. She will simply clench her little fists, stamp her little RED slippers, and scream and SCREAM AND SCREAM!!

Message:
Who needs to with you around!!

Name:

Individual

In response to:
Individual, you are full of bullsh!t

Message:
What part of "nearly" do you not understand? What part of "for all practical purposes" do you not understand? The main point is that under Clinton, we lost very few soldiers. Under Bush, we have lost a lot more and are still in a losing mode. But why do we need to compare Bush with Clinton. Let's look at Bush on his own.

Bush and Cheney did everything in the power (and maybe their Fathers' power) to avoid combat--even though they supported the war in Vietnam. Many people would call that being a chicken. I would simply say that Bush and Cheney did everything they could to avoid combat.

Name:

Matamoros

Message:
I love Lyndie England! Whip that Muslim dog!



We should have used nukes like I've been saying all along. Then none of this would have had to happen.
BTW- Why the hell are we apologizing, did they apologize for burning those guys in Fallujah?

Muslims are dogs. They need this.

Name:	It's...A NEW DARK AGE (cue ominous music)
Re:	Bush pauses to comfort teen

Message:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'This girl lost her mom in the World Trade Center on 9-11'

By Kristina Goetz The Cincinnati Enquirer

During his visit to the Golden Lamb Inn in Lebanon, President Bush stops to hug Ashley Faulkner, who lost her mom in the Sept. 11 attacks. Photo by Lynn Faulkner

In a moment largely unnoticed by the throngs of people in Lebanon waiting for autographs from the president of the United States, George W. Bush stopped to hold a teenager's head close to his heart.

Lynn Faulkner, his daughter, Ashley, and their neighbor, Linda Prince, eagerly waited to shake the president's hand Tuesday at the Golden Lamb Inn. He worked the line at a steady campaign pace, smiling, nodding and signing autographs until Prince spoke:

"This girl lost her mom in the World Trade Center on 9-11."

Bush stopped and turned back.

"He changed from being the leader of the free world to being a father, a husband and a man," Faulkner said. "He looked right at her and said, 'How are you doing?' He reached out with his hand and pulled her into his chest."

Faulkner snapped one frame with his camera.

"I could hear her say, 'I'm OK,' " he said. "That's more emotion than she has shown in 21/2 years. Then he said, 'I can see you have a father who loves you very much.' "

"And I said, 'I do, Mr. President, but I miss her mother every day.' It was a special moment."

Special for Lynn Faulkner because the Golden Lamb was the place he and his wife, Wendy Faulkner, celebrated their anniversary every year until she died in the south tower of the World Trade Center, where she had traveled for business.

The day was also special for Ashley, a 15-year-old Mason High School student, because the visit was reminiscent of a trip she took four years ago with her mother and Prince. They spent all afternoon in the rain waiting to see Bush on the campaign trail. Ashley remembers holding her mother's hand, eating Triscuits she packed and bringing along a book in case she got bored.

But this time was different. She understood what the president was saying, and she got close enough to see him face to face.

"The way he was holding me, with my head against his chest, it felt like he was trying to protect me," Ashley said. "I thought, 'Here is the most powerful guy in the world, and he wants to make sure I'm safe.' I definitely had a couple of tears in my eyes, which is pretty unusual for me."

The photo has been circulating across the country, Faulkner said. Relatives have passed it on to friends, bosses and acquaintances. As they tell the story, they also share in Wendy Faulkner's legacy, which her family continues through the Wendy Faulkner Memorial Children's Foundation.

"I'm a pretty cynical and jaded guy at this point in my life," Faulkner said of the moment with the president. "But this was the real deal. I was really impressed. It was genuine and from the heart."

Name:

Dirty Deeds, done by Dems

Message:

Racial slur use lands Rep. Buck (Democrat) in hot water

Several incendiary comments by a Midstate legislator about Hispanic workers — including the use of the term ''wetback'' — have drawn criticism from some Hispanic community leaders and advocates.

State Rep. Frank Buck, D-Dowelltown, used the term twice yesterday in a public debate over changes to the state's driver's license law with fellow House Transportation Committee colleagues

More

Name:	Smedley
To:	Hillary Supporter

In response to:
Oh, I get it! Every site out there lies except for NewsMax.com, huh?

Message:
Huh? Never said that, did I.

The fact is that you posted from Hillary's website and tried to pass it off as some credable source.

Lame.

Very very lame.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Bystander

In response to:
Are you really that stupid? Do you think Hillary's website is a source of objective news about Hillary? Laugh clown, laugh.

Message:
Obviously they are not going to post anything negative. But, what I was saying is that they do NOT make up and lie about what they do post on there!

I have to laugh at you a$$holes who are so obsessed with destroying Hillary!! It ain't gonna happen, buddy!

Name:	ET
To:	Milan
Re:	NO EASY ANSWERS

In response to:
And how are the Balkans today? Saudi "charity" is radicalizing Bosnian Muslims, and the King Fahd Mosque in Sarajevo is one of Al Qaeda's primary recruiting places for jihad in Iraq (I saw this on a more recent episode of "Frontline," on liberal pbs, not FOX News) As for Kosovo, the Kosova Liberation Army is terrorizing the Serbs and burning Chrisitan Churches. In effect, with the "liberation" of the Balkans, Al Qaeda has gained a major foothold in Europe. . In effect, Clinton's record fighting terrorism is no better than Bush's pre-9/11.

Message:
You are right, Milan. Thanks for being here and keeping us on track.

p> As I said at the top of Forum 827, March 2003:

"They are our neighbors, our professors, our fellow students in our universities, our business associates, our friends and lovers, but behind the scenes they religiously follow an ideology that commands them to kill us."

There are no easy answers in this jihadi war. To make matters worse it is taking such a long time for Americans to understand the underlying imperatives that are driving this war on terrorism. Imperatives cannot be appeased. Imperatives cannot be ignored as the Clintons did.

There is only one way to stamp out the war on terrorism, and that is separate the followers of the jihad imperative from ordinary people. We should begin, right here in this country, by demanding that the Muslims who embrace our democracy and our values stand up for us. Some brave man in Phoenix started the first march in support of America. Our leaders should call for Muslims who support America to visibly show their support by marching in the July 4th parades around the country.

Unfortunately the prison abuses have sullied our good reputation. Perhaps by the time July 4th rolls around we will have taken such a strong stand against the perpetrators of the abuses that we will not appear as hypocrites in making such a demand.

To:	Individual

In response to:
What part of "nearly" do you not understand? What part of "for all practical purposes" do you not understand?

Message:
You are a sick left wing liar.

You are saying those 18 American Soldiers that died in Bill Clinton's Somalia disaster and had their bodies dragged through the streets "nearly" don't count or "for all practical purposes" don't really happen.

Name:	Smedley
To:	spIndividual

In response to:
What part of "nearly" do you not understand? What part of "for all practical purposes" do you not understand? The main point is that under Clinton, we lost very few soldiers.

Message:
and nothing got done.

Had Clinton actually the political guts to stand up to al Qaeda after the first WTC attack or after the Cole attack -- or even taken bin Laden when OFFERED to him, there would have been no second WTC attack

But of course Clinton was a gutless wonder.

Message:
some would say ultra-lame

Name:	Supporting evidence PLEASE
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
Bush and Cheney did everything in the power (and maybe their Fathers' power) to avoid combat--even though they supported the war in Vietnam.

Message:
Supporting evidence PLEASE!!!

Name:

Tey

Message:

Name:

Poll Question

Message:
Should the NEA be audited?

Name:	Dem
To:	Smedley

In response to:
Worse than a rag -- IT's HILLARY'S OWN WEB SITE. Please don't bother to post anything from a political web site and pass it off as news.

Message:
Please don't post anything from the Free Republic, NewsMax, the GOP website, or from any Republican website, especiallyo from the Bush campaign's $50 million propaganda campaign to prove how bad Kerry's war record is when Bush stayed home and partied. Hypocrites all.

Name:

Smedley

In response to:
No. I am saying as a fact that, compared to the Bush debacle, the conflicts that Clinton was involved in yielded virtually (not actually) no American deaths. Again, look up virtually. Bush was a chickenhawk as regards the war in Vietnam. He was in favor of the war, yet he did his best to avoid combat.

Message:
Really? Flying in the Air National Guard, of which about half served in Viet Nam, constitutes GWB's "best to avoid combat"?

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

Message:
I don't get everything I post in here from there just some things, and I will continue to post Hillary articles in here from where ever the hell I want.

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
Please don't post anything from the Free Republic, NewsMax, the GOP website, or from any Republican website, especiallyo from the Bush campaign's $50 million propaganda campaign to prove how bad Kerry's war record is when Bush stayed home and partied. Hypocrites all.

Message:
AMEN!!!

Name:	Editor
To:	Truth Hurts

In response to:
What about the Clinton Arkancide Death List? There are dozens of people who had dirt on Bill or Hillary that never lived to tell their stories. Ron Brown, Vince , and many, many others. Suicides, suspicious deaths, plane crashes with bullet wounds. They don't call it an "Arkansas Dirt Bath" for nothing.

Message:
Don't be a fool. The Clinton death list is pure crap. There is an even longer death list that lists all the people who died because of the Bushes.

Where have you been all this time? I thought everybody knew that death list was a farce.

If you pay us enough for our time we could concoct a death list for you too, or anyone you don't like. It doesn't take a genius to concoct a list against anyone, but it sure takes an idiot to believe it.

Name:	Supporting Evidence PLEASE
To:	Dem

In response to:
Bush campaign's $50 million propaganda campaign to prove how bad Kerry's war record is

Message:
Supporting Evidence PLEASE!!!!!

Bush has not said a word about Kerry's Vietnam record nor has he spent a dollar attacking Kerry very questionable war record. Those that are attacking Kerry’s Vietnam record are those that served with Kerry in the Vietnam War. Every single officer that served over Kerry in Vietnam signed a letter saying Kerry was not fit to be president.

Name:	It's...A NEW DARK AGE (cue ominous music)
Re:	Tonight We're Gonna Party....

Message:
"This culture is in big trouble. All you see on television are debased images. You saw the Super Bowl. I don't even need to say anything more about it."

-- PRINCE, in Rolling Stone magazine.

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
What about the Clinton Arkancide Death List? There are dozens of people who had dirt on Bill or Hillary that never lived to tell their stories. Ron Brown, Vince , and many, many others. Suicides, suspicious deaths, plane crashes with bullet wounds. They don't call it an "Arkansas Dirt Bath" for nothing.

Message:
Lies...lies and more lies!! That is nothing but a bunch of right-wing extremist lies from and NewsMax sites.

Name:	Marta Mama
To:	HILLARY HOOT PIPE
Re:	Scarlet O'Hara in the carrot patch!!

In response to:
I don't get everything I post in here from there just some things, and I will continue to post Hillary articles in here from where ever the hell I wan

Message:
There, there. Of COURSE you will! And soon, when Hillary takes over, everything will be all right!

Name:	nuff said
To:	ET

In response to:
Don't be a fool. The Clinton death list is pure crap. There is an even longer death list that lists all the people who died because of the Bushes.

Message:
Are you actually trying to claim the Clinton Death List is "prue crap" and the highly unoriginal Bush Death List is factual? The Bush Death List has Bush the Elder killing Martin Luther King Jr.

nuff said.

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
Don't be a fool. The Clinton death list is pure crap. There is an even longer death list that lists all the people who died because of the Bushes. Where have you been all this time? I thought everybody knew that death list was a farce. If you pay us enough for our time we could concoct a death list for you too, or anyone you don't like. It doesn't take a genius to concoct a list against anyone, but it sure takes an idiot to believe it.

Message:
Hey ET, I'm sure there's a death list of people who died because of Freepers...LOL!!

Name:	Editor
To:	Hillary Supporter

In response to:
I don't get everything I post in here from there just some things, and I will continue to post Hillary articles in here from where ever the hell I want.

Message:
Post DOUBLE the number of posts you usually post from Hillary's site just to show the opposition that, with you, their intimidation works the opposite way they intended.

If they complain again, post TRIPLE the number until they finally get the message and shut up.

Give it back to them in spades!

Name:

Smedley

In response to:
Lies...lies and more lies!! That is nothing but a bunch of right-wing extremist lies from and NewsMax sites.

Message:
but of course if Hillary published it, that'd be okay-dokey

Name:	Dem
To:	Smedley

In response to:
Find an instance where I've done so WITHOUT EXPLICITLY stating where my info came from. If you can't, then piss off. especiallyo from the Bush campaign's $50 million propaganda campaign to prove how bad Kerry's war record is This is EXACTLY why I say Democrats are shameless liars. The Bush campaign's media blitze never touched on Kerry's war record. Never. It did discuss Kerry's voting record, Kerry's hysterically transparent lies (using Kerry's own words "I voted for the ... before I voted against ...") and Kerry's activities after he returned to the US.

Message:
I think it's time we got a death list for you too.

Name:

The Bush Death List

Message:
The left wing liars have Bush the elder killing JFK.

John Fitzgerald Kennedy

An internal FBI memo reported that on November 22 a reputed businessman named George H. W. Bush reported hearsay that a certain Young Republican had been talking of killing the President when he came to Houston. The Young Republican was nowhere near Dallas on that date. According to a 1988 story in The Nation, J. Edgar Hoover said in a memo that Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy. George H. W. Bush has denied this, although he was in Texas and cannot account for his whereabouts at the time.

Clue to lying left wingers: G.H.W. Bush was "of the CIA" from 1976-1977 only (13 years later)

Name:	Kerry is so not Ready
Re:	Senator, why does your manservant carry PBJ's?

Message:
John Kerry who BTW served in Vietnam, is a self confessed war criminal, ALL of the ads against John Kerry highlight his VOTING record. However, whenever John Kerry who BTW served in Vietnam opens his mouth he relates EVERYTHING back to NAM...

PTSD could be the culprit...or he may have nothing else to say.

Name:

The Bush Death List

Message:

Karla Faye Tucker

She was executed in spite of enormous protest from the public, even those religious groups that advocate the death penalty. Even Pat Robertson thought that Karla was truly repentant and asked George W. Bush to spare her life. He refused. Afterward, in a Talk Magazine interview, Bush mocked the woman whose death warrant he had sanctioned, pursing his lips and whimpering, "Please don't kill me!"

Clue to left wing liars: Bush did not arrest Karla, Bush did not convict Karla, Bush did not sentence Karla, and Bush did not execute Karla. Karla did mercilessly kill a couple with pick ax. Clearly the Bush Death list is nothing but crap.

Name:

Bystander

In response to:
Post DOUBLE the number of posts you usually post from Hillary's site just to show the opposition that, with you, their intimidation works the opposite way they intended.

Message:
And post more of the porn and Nazi pictures left wingers love so much...

Name:	Wellbourne Mottsinger
To:	Hillary Supporter

In response to:
Hey ET, I'm sure there's a death list of people who died because of Freepers...LOL!!

Message:
Have Merci MOO check with NOSTRADAMUS!! Be sure to mention ASHCROFT!! And find out what the hell ASHCROFT did with JUULIE UULIE!!!!!!!!!!

Name:	Smedley
To:	The Bush Death List
Re:	The left wing liars have Bush the elder killing JFK.

In response to:
Clue to lying left wingers: G.H.W. Bush was "of the CIA" from 1976-1977 only (13 years later)

Message:
In 1963, Bush41 was running for the Senate. He wasn't even part of the federal government yet. I don't believe the CIA is in the habit of briefing businessmen about assasination attempts on the president.

Name:	Texan
To:	Magpie's Mind Reader
Re:	Time to go beddy-bye, Pickax Mama ...

In response to:
Clue to left wing liars: Bush did not arrest Karla, Bush did not convict Karla, Bush did not sentence Karla, and Bush did not execute Karla. Karla did mercilessly kill a couple with pick ax. Clearly the Bush Death list is nothing but crap.

Message:
Down here in Texas, we aren't too fond of murderers. If that upsets you, too bad.

Name:	Dem
To:	Smedley

In response to:
In 1963, Bush41 was running for the Senate. He wasn't even part of the federal government yet. I don't believe the CIA is in the habit of briefing businessmen about assasination attempts on the president. Talk about mind-numbed robots, the left will swallow anything their masters tell them.

Message:
We were planning to smear all the Bushies at once. Let's have a ball!

We could give out prizes for the side who can make the longest death list.

We already have Smedley as co-conspirator with the Bushies on several death lists we have created. That's because we love you so much Smedley we don't want to leave you name of any of our death lists. We have put Magpie and all of them too. Magpie is suspected of being involved in over 19 deaths in Florida alone. Smedley creeps around the parks in DC late at night. We have tied him to Gary Condit and Chondra Levy's death. Smedley knew Chondra exactly where Chondra was buried in the park. How did he know? Read our death list and find out all the secrets.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
To:	Editor

In response to:
Post DOUBLE the number of posts you usually post from Hillary's site just to show the opposition that, with you, their intimidation works the opposite way they intended. If they complain again, post TRIPLE the number until they finally get the message and shut up. Give it back to them in spades!

Message:
You got it, no problem!!

Name:

Lynard Skynard

Message:
play Freeper

Name:

HILLARY SUPPORTER

In response to:
Yes Hillary Supporter do post more from your employer's own website...in pretty blue letters

Message:
That is her official senate site, which is a government site. Her "personal" site which is controlled by Hillary and her staff is "Friends of Hillary", NOT Clinton.gov

Name:	Smedley
To:	Dem

In response to:
We were planning to smear all the Bushies at once. Let's have a ball!

Message:
Hey, Terry McAuliffe called. He said that you're late for your weekly programming session on how the Bushies conspired with the Klingons to create Hitler from Venusian DNA.

Name:	Sul Rost
To:	magpie
Re:	welcome back dude Hasn't been the same

In response to:
Everybody knows about Bill Clinton's "I want to kill those SOBs! I want them dead" or words to that effect from georgie Boy Stepanophalous' so-called-expository book. Is there more like that? He sounds like Howard Saint in "The Punisher"! Bill Clinton was the "Godfather" President,eh?

Message:
Peter Paul is sueing Bill Clinton due to Clinton's reneiging on the $15 million benefits-for-appearances-and-favors package. Clinton didn't want to tie himself down with a measly $15 million. Must be bigger irons in the fire, hogs to fry, chickens in the stewer,etc. Any ideas? Pennsylvania Clinton CreditCo? We knows he like to snoop personal files, why not credit files? Or is that too legit and boring for a caperman like "Wild Bill"?

Name:	Make Sure You Get The Address Right
Re:	Win a Date With A Senator...

Message:
Her "personals" site which is controlled by Hillary and her staff is "Friends of Hillary", NOT Clinton.gov

Name:	Angry Din'e
To:	Hillary Cadres For Change
Re:	It's WAR!!

In response to:
We already have Smedley as co-conspirator with the Bushies on several death lists we have created. That's because we love you so much Smedley we don't want to leave you name of any of our death lists. We have put Magpie and all of them too. Magpie is suspected of being involved in over 19 deaths in Florida alone. Smedley creeps around the parks in DC late at night. We have tied him to Gary Condit and Chondra Levy's death. Smedley knew Chondra exactly where Chondra was buried in the park. How did he know? Read our death list and find out all the secrets.

Message:
BUSH AND HIS OLD DADDY FLEW THE PLANES! EVERYBODY KNOWS THEY PRACTICED PARACHUTES! THEY LANDED IN CENTRAL PARK AND CHENEY'S MOTORCADE PICKED THEM UP AND WHISKED THEM TO THAT BIG SECRET CAVE IN MISSOURI WHERE ALL THE GOVERNMENT CHEESE COMES FROM! THAT GOVERNMENT CHEESE IS LOADED WITH SALTPETER TO STOP THE BLACKS FROM BREEDING! ASHCROFT IS THE ONE WHO GOT JACKIE! HE PUT MERCURY IN HER CAVIAR AND SLOWLY POISONED HER!! THE BUSH TWINS TOOK OUT PRINCESS DIANA IN THEIR ARMOR-PLATED SUV!!

Name:

And Your Little Dog Too

Message:

Name:

Opinion Piece by Ann Coulter

Message:

Even With Hindsight Liberals Can't See Straight

Over in the alternative universe of the 9/11 commission hearings watched only by me, Richard Ben-Veniste recently proposed an amazing new standard for investigating Arabs in this country. In the middle of haranguing Condoleezza Rice, Ben-Veniste demanded to know why the suspected 20th hijacker, Zacarias Moussaoui, had not been more aggressively investigated, despite the fact that -- I quote -- he had "no explanation for the funds in his bank account, and no explanation for why he was in the United States."

So let me get this straight: Airport security can't acknowledge that a person is an Arab, but they should be allowed to audit his bank records? (Come to think of it, "Can't Explain His Bank Account or Why He's Here" is also a pretty good description of John Kerry.)

Can we use that as a standard going forward? The government prohibits airlines from searching more than two Arabs per flight, so it would be terrific if liberals would let us examine their bank accounts. If Democratic Party shills like Ben-Veniste -- who himself looks like someone who ought to be searched at airports -- are going to make ludicrous, macho statements like that in order to win applause from weeping widows in the peanut gallery, can't we hold them to that policy when it matters?

Ben-Veniste thinks the key to stopping the 9/11 attack was for the FBI to have drawn the obvious conclusions from an Arab in flight school. If only the FBI had searched Moussaoui's computer, they would have found a flight-simulator computer program, information about the Boeing 747, and extensive files on crop dusters. From this, apparently, Ben-Veniste imagines the FBI would have drawn the obvious conclusion that on Sept. 11, 19 Muslims were going to hijack airplanes out of Logan, Newark and Dulles airports and fly them into buildings.

A somewhat more direct chain of causation traces its way back to the aviation-security commission chaired by Vice President Al Gore in 1997. If that commission had done its job, you wouldn't have to wait for one of my columns to find out that there was a commission on airline safety years before the 9/11 attacks. Isn't it curious that Democrats aren't bragging about Gore inventing air safety? The reason Al Gore hasn't added "anti-terrorism" to the list of things he invented is that Gore's commission concluded that passenger profiling must ignore ethnicity and nationality. Or as Gore himself might have put it, "I took the initiative in making it easier for Muslims to use airplanes to slaughter innocent American citizens."

The Gore commission on air safety decided that profiling should be based on "reasonable predictors of risk, not stereotypes or generalizations." Amazingly, all those "reasonable predictors of risk" failed to stop a single Muslim terrorist on 9/11. One wonders whether a profiling system that included ethnicity and nationality would have been more helpful in stopping 19 Muslim men, 15 of whom were from Saudi Arabia, all speaking Arabic to one another, from boarding planes on Sept. 11.

Recently -- i.e., about the time Ben-Veniste was shocked that the FBI hadn't uncovered the 9/11 plot based on the fact that Moussaoui had overstayed his visa -- Sen. Hillary Clinton and Sen. Chuck Schumer were clamoring for the release of Ansar Mahmood, a 26-year-old Pakistani immigrant detained in October 2001 after he was observed taking photographs at a water treatment plant in upstate New York. Mahmood later pleaded guilty to committing a felony by giving financial aid to illegal immigrants from Pakistan. Schumer says Mahmood should be permitted to stay in the U.S. because he "was cleared of terrorist links," and he has already served his time for "a non-violent felony." Hillary simply calls Mahmood's detention "disturbing."

Where is Ben-Veniste when we need him? What happened to the "We Don't Know Why He's Here or His Sources of Money" standard for harassing Muslim immigrants? In contrast to Mahmood, Zacarias Moussaoui had committed no felonies; his only apparent offense was to have overstayed his visa. But Ben-Veniste is appalled that the FBI didn't beat Moussaoui for information. The French had linked Moussaoui to al-Qaida -- based largely on the information that he took frequent trips to Afghanistan and Pakistan, Mahmood's home country. When FBI agents in Minneapolis requested a warrant to search Moussaoui's computer, FBI headquarters wrote back, "We don't know he's a terrorist" -- i.e., the argument Schumer is making for Mahmood's release right now.

Liberals always claim to know exactly what to do as soon as it's too late. After Muslims attack with airplanes, they want to investigate flight schools. After Muslims attack with shoe-bombs, they want to investigate shoes. After a Muslim introduces E. coli into New York's water supply, liberals will be enraged that Muslim immigrants taking pictures of New York water treatment plants weren't investigated more aggressively -- as soon as they are done blaming Bush for not stopping the attack amid their caterwauling about the detention of Muslim immigrants. Liberals are the only known species whose powers of reasoning are not improved by the benefit of hindsight. Not only are they always fighting the last war, in most cases they're surrendering.

<