Hillary Clinton: No regret on Iraq vote

'How could they have been so poorly prepared for the aftermath?'

Wednesday, April 21, 2004 Posted: 1410 GMT (2210 HKT)

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton questions President Bush's handling of postwar Iraq.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said she is not sorry she voted for a resolution authorizing President Bush to take military action in Iraq despite the recent problems there but she does regret "the way the president used the authority."

"How could they have been so poorly prepared for the aftermath of the toppling of Saddam Hussein?" the New York Democrat asked Tuesday night on CNN's "Larry King Live."

"I don't understand how they had such an unrealistic view of what was going to happen."

April has become the deadliest month for U.S. forces in Iraq since the war began more than a year ago. The U.S.-led coalition faces insurrections on several fronts, including the Sunni Muslim stronghold of Fallujah, west of Baghdad, and the militia of a Shiite Muslim cleric in Najaf in the south.

To the disappointment of some antiwar liberals in her Democratic base, Clinton, the former first lady, voted in favor of the Iraq war resolution in October 2002.

"Obviously, I've thought about that a lot in the months since," she said. "No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade."

But she said the Bush administration's short-circuiting of the U.N. weapons inspection process didn't permit "the inspectors to finish whatever task they could have accomplished to demonstrate one way or the other what was there."

She also said the failure to plan properly for the post-war period "is the hardest to understand."

Since the invasion of Iraq a year ago, no weapons of mass destruction have been found. The Bush administration has cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had the capability to produce such weapons.

The lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq contradicts years of intelligence indicating Saddam had such weapons, which also was the conclusion of officials in the Clinton administration.

"The consensus was the same, from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration," she said. "It was the same intelligence belief that our allies and friends around the world shared.

"But I think that in the case of the [Bush] administration, they really believed it. They really thought they were right, but they didn't let enough sunlight into their thinking process to really have the kind of debate that needs to take place when a serious decision occurs like that."

She conceded that making such decisions is "very tough" for the occupant of the Oval Office.

"That's one of the reasons why I think it's important to have a president who asks a lot of questions, who is intellectually curious, who seeks out contrary points of view, who doesn't just surround himself with people who see the world the same way," she said.

"You have to have a decision-making process that pushes a lot of information up and asks a lot of hard questions. You don't get that sense from this White House."

Clinton also said her impression of the Bush White House is that "it's a very close-knit, quite insular team that basically talks to itself and has very strong convictions -- which is admirable -- that are not shaken by evidence or any factual differences in what they intend to do."

On a different topic, Clinton once again eschewed any interest in the vice presidential slot on the Democratic ticket this year, saying she would turn down Sen. John Kerry, the presumed nominee, if he asked her to be his running mate.

"I'm so happy being senator from New York right now. I love my life. I love my job. I want to see it through," Clinton said. "The people of New York took a chance on me, and I'm well aware of that.

"I said I wouldn't run, and I really mean it. I'm not going to run."

Elected in 2000, Clinton faces re-election in 2006

SEN. FLIP-FLOP KERRY'S ABORTION FLIP: ADVOCATED 'STATE ISSUE'

Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry will attend a rally for women's abortion rights in Washington, DC on Friday.

At the rally, Kerry will ask attendees to join him in the fight by getting involved in his campaign.

But Kerry claimed in an interview he was "opposed to abortion" and how its an issue "that should be left for the states to decide."

(MORE)

Kerry told the LOWELL SUN in October, 1972: "...It's a tragic day in the lives of everybody when abortion is looked on as an alternative to birth control or as an alternative to having a child. I think that's wrong. It should be the very last thing if it has to be anything, and I say that not just because I'm opposed to abortion but because I think that's common sense."

Kerry declared: "I think the question of abortion is one that should be left for the states to decide."

In 1975, SUN reporter John Mullins outlined how Kerry believed there were larger issues than abortion including "how to put people back to work, how to reduce crime and how to keep institutions from breaking down."

"'I think liberals spend too much time pushing issues which just aren't relevant to the mass of people,' Kerry said, including among such issues abortion, the death penalty and amnesty."

It is not about the Purple Heart, it is about Kerry's wanting the world to play by his rules, the rules of, as Time Magazine called him, "the Swiss-educated son of a foreign service diplomat," of the Yalie gone to war and back again in a few months to denounce as "war criminals" everyone who ever served in Vietnam, of the long-serving pompous blowhard suffering from "Senatitus," where no one tells you to shut up and sit down because you are scaring the kids and blocking the views. It is about the fellow who wants to rush the U.N. with apologies, who wants to "literally, formally rejoin the community of nations" even as the battle for Fallujah rages. Who wants his incoherence on the economy and Social Security to be overlooked because, after all, he is damn serious about both, and who doesn't want anyone to see his wife's wealth or question the completeness of his lobbyist contacts. The disclosure battles are over whether Kerry gets to parade in the Emperor's clothes without anyone shouting naked. I hope we don't get bored, because that's what Kerry's team is counting on. It worked on Russert, on whom Kerry's repeated absurdities were largely lost or abandoned. Tim Russert should have known.

Name:	voter
To:	forum
Re:	Kerry

Message:
Sorry folks, Kerry just doesn't have it. I'm voting for Bush. First reason is the Supreme Court. I don't want any more Liberal activist jerks on it. Second, the 2nd Amendment has to be preserved. And Third, I don't want to see a return of all those strange and weird people in the upper cabinet posts. The Bushies aren't exactly perfect, but at least I don't cringe any more at the sight of the freaks that Clinton had in place.

Name:	Peter Lorre Jr.
To:	Heeellary
Re:	i need you

Message:
I want to sock your teeeets! I want to eeeeeeeet your booooossssy!

Name:

The guy who truned up dead in the park

Message:
Allegations Regarding The guy who turned up dead , the NSA, and Banking Transactions Spying, Part I by J. Orlin Grabbe

On April 17, 1995, James R. Norman, Senior Editor at Forbes Magazine, sent the following letter to Michael D. McCurry, Press Secretary at the White house:

"Forbes Magazine is preparing an article for immediate publication. We would like to offer the White House an opportunity to comment on the following assertions.

"1.) That Vincent W. , while White House Deputy Counsel, maintained a Swiss bank account.

"2.) That funds were paid into that account by a foreign government, specifically the State of Israel.

"3.) That shortly before his death and coincident with the onset of severe and acute depression, Vincent learned he was under investigation by the CIA for espionage.

"5.) That while he was White House Deputy Counsel and for many years prior, Vincent had been a behind-the- scenes control person on behalf of the National Security Agency for Systematics, a bank data processing company integrally involved in a highly secret intelligence effort to monitor world bank transactions.

"6.) That Systematics was also involved in 'laundering' funds from covert operations, including drug and arms sales related to activities in and around Mena, Ark.

"7.) That through Systematics' relationship with E-Systems, Vincent may have had access to highly sensitive code, encryption and data security information of strategic importance.

"8.) That both prior to and after his death, documents relating to Systematics were removed from Vincent 's office in the White House.

"9.) That the meeting at the Cardozo (Landau) estate on the eastern shore of Maryland on the weekend before his death was attended by, among others, George Stephanopolous.

"10.) That Hillary Rodham Clinton was also a beneficiary of funds from 's Swiss account.

"Thank you very much for your prompt attention to this matter. Please fax your written response before end-of-business Tuesday, April 18, to Forbes at 212-620-2417. If you have questions, please call me at 212-620-2215.

Name:	HILLARY SUPPORTER
Re:	March for Women's Lives

Message:
NARAL Pro-Choice America to Transmit VNR of March for Women's Lives; Footage to Include Michelman, Sen. Clinton, Local Attendees 2 hours, 53 minutes ago

(For Planning Purposes Only) NARAL Pro-Choice America will send out a video news release from the historic March for Women's Lives on Sunday, April 25 at 4 p.m. highlighting the overwhelming support for a woman's right to choose.

The package will feature remarks from NARAL Pro-Choice America President, Kate Michelman, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (news - web sites), and activists from:

Additionally, the package will include b-roll footage of the March, Michelman, and Clinton marching with thousands of March participants from across the country.

The VNR will be broadcast from 3-3:15 p.m. EST and again from 4-4:15 p.m. EST on April 25, 2004

PITTSBURGH (AP) - Does John Kerry, who supports higher automobile fuel economy standards, own a gas-guzzling SUV? He does, but says it belongs to the family, not to him.

Name:	Smedley
To:	Thinking American

In response to:
Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He

Message:
This makes me think that if Bush said it and not Kerry, the Left would be creaming for his impeachment. It makes me think that if Bush said it, I'd be cringing with embarassment. How people can stomach someone who says "I voted for it before I voted against it" (a line that was a lie since the only thing Kerry voted for was a rider amendment to raise taxes) is beyond me.

Kerry has one set of rules for him and the New England elite -- another set for the rest of us. I personally could care less whether Kerry has SUVs, a 50 foot yaught, numerous numerous spacious mansions and even a private jet that he frequently uses to travel. I'm just tired of hypocracy on the issue of energy and his bafoon-ery in general.

By the way, is it my imagination or has John F'ing Kerry said more stupid things this year alone than GWB, Dan Qualle and Yogi Berra did in their combined lifetimes?

Name:	The American People
Re:	Does this make YOU mad?

Message:
Does this make YOU mad:

Name:	Smedley
To:	Why John Kerry will never be president

Message:
I didn't your post before I posted my message. However, obviously Kerry has provided us with much material to talk about.

Message:
Actually, it makes me proud. In makes me sad. It makes me appreciative that we have so many wonderful people in this country.

Name:

Tina Fey

In response to:
I didn't your post before I posted my message. However, obviously Kerry has provided us with much material to talk about. Do you ever wonder why SNL hasn't parodied Kerry Yet?

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - In remarks that could influence the U.S. presidential race, a leading Vatican cardinal said on Friday that a politician who is unambiguously in favor of abortion should be denied communion at Mass.

The issue has sparked debate in the United States over Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, a Roman Catholic who supports abortion rights.

Cardinal Francis Arinze, the top Vatican cardinal in charge of the sacraments, was asked at a news conference whether priests should refuse communion to a politician who is unambiguously pro-abortion.

"Yes," he replied. "If the person should not receive it, then it should not be given. Objectively, the answer is there."

Some members of the American Church hierarchy have said they would deny communion to Kerry, who, if elected, will become the first Roman Catholic president since John F. Kennedy in 1960.

Anti-abortion groups accuse Kerry of having what they call a "perfect" voting record on legislation allowing abortion. He is due to be endorsed by the Planned Parenthood Action Group, a group favoring abortion rights.

The discussion of Kerry's eligibility for communion arose after Archbishop Raymond Burke of St. Louis advised him not to "present himself for communion" at any church in the city. A few other bishops have issued similar warnings.

Arinze, a Nigerian, is head of the Vatican department that establishes regulations on the way the sacraments, including the Mass and communion, should be practiced.

Kerry is seen here giving a political speech in a Methodist church simultaneously violating the Separation of Church and State and his vows to the Catholic Church.

Name:	The REAL DEAL
Re:	Discrepancies noted in Kerry's record

Message:
Ex-skipper says website wrong

WASHINGTON -- Vietnam combat records posted on John F. Kerry's campaign website for the month of January 1969 as evidence of his service aboard swift boat No. 94 describe action that occurred before Kerry was skipper of that craft, according to the officer who said he commanded the boat at the time.

On the site, the Massachusetts senator is described as the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 during several actions in late January 1969.

However, Edward Peck, who was the skipper of the 94 before Kerry took over, said combat reports posted by the campaign for January 1969 involve action when he was the skipper, not Kerry. Peck, who was seriously wounded in fighting that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, said he believes Kerry campaign aides made a mistake in claiming Kerry as skipper of the 94 at that time.

On the Kerry website, the report of the combat on that day on the 94 boat is posted as occurring during Kerry's time as skipper of the boat. Peck said Kerry replaced him after the Jan. 29, 1969, event.

"Those are definitely mine," Peck said, referring to the combat reports that the Kerry campaign posted as representing Kerry's action. "There is no doubt about it."

A Kerry campaign spokesman, Michael Meehan, said in an e-mail that the campaign had obtained the combat reports for the 94 from the Navy. He did not directly address the question of why the campaign describes Kerry being skipper of the 94 at a time when Peck says he commanded the boat.

The reports at issue are in a 20-page batch representing Kerry's combat in January 1969. The reports include references to some dramatic action, including an ambush of Patrol Craft Fast, or PCF, 94. In addition to posting the information online, the campaign sent out an e-mail yesterday afternoon repeating the claim that Kerry was the skipper of the 94 boat throughout January and describing action the campaign said Kerry experienced while commanding the craft.

For example, in a summary of action that occurred Jan. 26, 1969, the campaign says Kerry served on boat No. 94 alongside another boat, No. 66. "PCFs 94 and 66 escorted troops up the Ong Doc River early in the morning when they were ambushed by gun and rocket fire from approximately 40 men on both sides of the river," the campaign summary says. "Two B-40 rounds hit close to Kerry's boat, while PCF 66 received 2 B-40 rocket hits. Three men on PCF66 were wounded. A junk containing South Vietnamese troops was also sunk, killing 11 South Vietnamese troops. Intelligence reports after the mission indicated that the Viet Cong troops may have planned the ambush in advance."

Peck said he was the skipper of the 94 at this time and that Kerry was not on the craft. While combat reports show several boats traveling with the 94, the campaign website says only that Kerry was the skipper of the 94 and does not try to place him on the other boats.

In another report, the campaign summarizes action that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, this way: "While Kerry's boat and another [PCF72] were probing a canal along the river, Kerry's boat came under heavy fire and was hit by a B-40 rocket in the cabin area. One member of Kerry's crew -- Forward Gunner David Alston -- suffered shrapnel wounds in his head. His injuries were not considered serious and he was sent to the 29th Evac Hospital at Binh Thuy."

Peck said he was the skipper on this day as well. Peck was also injured in the ambush and was hospitalized.

As a result, Kerry then took over the crew, Peck said. The Navy combat report posted by the Kerry campaign states that Peck and Alston were injured in the same event. There is no mention of Kerry in that report.

Kerry's commanding officer, George Elliott, said in a telephone interview that he vividly recalls Peck's injury and hospitalization and Kerry's replacement of Peck. "I think somebody made a mistake who doesn't know" the timing of Kerry's service, Elliott said. Kerry was skipper of boat No. 44 in December and January before taking over command of the 94, he said.

Name:

Why John Kerry will never be President

Message:
Two words: Hillary Clinton

Hillary Clinton will settle for NOTHING LESS than the Presidency. If John Kerry wins this November, he will more than likely run again in 2008. Whether he wins or loses in 2008, Hillary would have to wait until 2012 to run. Hillary is not patient enough to wait until 2012, not to mention that she will be somewhat old.

If John Kerry is polling close to Bush near the election, Hillary Clinton (and the Clinton machine) will absolutely torpedo and destroy the Kerry campaign. The big questions are what will she do and when will she do it?

What dirt does Hillary have on Kerry that she will unleash on the voting public? Perhaps one of the many FBI files in which she is in possession is of one John Kerry.

Name:

Sign the Petition

In response to:
Kerry is seen here giving a political speech in a Methodist church simultaneously violating the Separation of Church and State and his vows to the Catholic Church.

Name:	Gerard Nicosia
To:	Hillary Fan

In response to:
What dirt does Hillary have on Kerry that she will unleash on the voting public? Perhaps one of the many FBI files in which she is in possession is of one John Kerry.

Message:
Did you break into my home? The three boxes of files on Kerry was bad enough but there are certain ahem, private photographs I'd like returned...with the negatives.

Name:	Kerry**Supporter!
To:	Right Winger Lunatics

In response to:
SUV Nonsense

Message:
Kerry's wife owns the SUV. You heard him say so. Is that so hard to understand??
He can't control his wife, so what? She's not running for president.

John Kerry would never drive in a big gas guzzling SUV.

Name:	Right Winger
To:	Kerry Supporter

In response to:
Kerry's wife owns the SUV. You heard him say so. Is that so hard to understand?? He can't control his wife, so what? She's not running for president.

John Kerry would never drive in a big gas guzzling SUV.

Message:

Please forgive me for insinuating that John F'ing Kerry would ever drive in a gas guzzling, environment destroying, OPEC supporting SUV.

John Kerry's Bronze Star citation was signed by John Lehman Secretary of the Navy. Only one problem, John Lehman was Secretary of the Navy from 1981 to 1987.

Name:	The Cold Hard Facts
To:	Kerry**Supporter!

Message:
Are all Kerry supporters stupid? You be the judge.

I guess it is true he does not drive his SUV, he just rides in it. Clearly Kerry decided not to ride in an SUV before he decided to ride in an SUV.

Both his Silver Star and Bronze star citations are signed by John Lehman, Secretary of Navy 1981-1987. The problem is Kerry got his medals 15 years before this man was Secretary of the Navy. Below are the signatures from both medal citations superimposed. As you can see they are identical meaning there is no way this is a signature. (not to mention John Lehman was not Secretary of the Navy when this citation was processed)

Sen. Hillary Clinton appeared Tuesday on CNN's "Larry King Live," and CNN describes an interesting exchange:

The lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq contradicts years of intelligence indicating Saddam had such weapons, which also was the conclusion of officials in the Clinton administration.

"The consensus was the same, from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration," she said. "It was the same intelligence belief that our allies and friends around the world shared.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - In remarks that could influence the U.S. presidential race, a leading Vatican cardinal said on Friday that a politician who is unambiguously in favor of abortion should be denied communion at Mass.

Message:
Kerry must unambiguously denounce the leading Vatican cardinal, or else he will be labeled a papist. Thank God the era of the papist is over in this country (unlike other countries such as Ireland), this cardinal's attempted influence to the contrary, notwithstanding. The Vatican cardinal who attempted to influence an American candidate for president is a scumbag of the worst kind.

Name:

Individual

In response to:
The discussion of Kerry's eligibility for communion arose after Archbishop Raymond Burke of St. Louis advised him not to "present himself for communion" at any church in the city. A few other bishops have issued similar warnings.

Message:
Burke is a scumbag. He is a papist of the worst kind. Vatican City stay out of U.S. politics. Vatican City stay out of any politics.

Name:	The Cold Hard Facts
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
Thank God the era of the papist is over in this country

Message:
When was the "papist" era in this country that you claim is now over? Please provide some supporting evidence for this silly claim.

All this proves is Kerry is phony hypocrite Catholic that only uses Catholicism as a campaign tool.

Name:	Evidence Please!
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
Isn't this just about the time that dubya was a big-time boozer?

Name:	The Cold Hard Facts
To:	SPINdividual

In response to:
Burke is a scumbag. He is a papist of the worst kind. Vatican City stay out of U.S. politics. Vatican City stay out of any politics.

Message:
All Catholics are "papists". That's the rules of the game. That's the rules of the church.

Message:
This is an amazing catch! Kerry's citation is from 1969. John Chafee, not John Lehman was Secretary of the Navy from January 1969 to May of 1972.

Lehman was born in 1942 and so in 1969 would have been 27yo in 1969. In fact, according to THIS SOURCE Lehman enlisted in the Navy in 1968 and would have been an ensign at the time.

Adm. Zumwalt, whose signature also appears on the citation, commanded U.S. Naval Forces in Vietnam from 1968 to 1970, which is contemperaneous with the date on the citation. At least one signature may be valid, but since E.B. Zumwalt is dead, there's no way he could tell us..

Name:

Smedley

In response to:
Below are the signatures from both medal citations superimposed. As you can see they are identical meaning there is no way this is a signature. (not to mention John Lehman was not Secretary of the Navy when this citation was processed)

Message:
FYI, it's possible that the Secretary of the Navy used a signing machine or stamp in 1981. In such case the signatures would look identical.

However, it is doubtful that ENSIGN John Lehman owned a signing machine, and the signatures do not look stamped on.

Name:	bordertex
To:	forum
Re:	the despicable bush/cheney twins

Message:

the problem in our country is not that John Kerry received purple hearts or notfor his military service to our country

or whether John Kerry as part of the Congress who was misled by the bush/cheney administration about the real reasons for attacking Iraq and its civilian population suffered the consequences of being lied too

is about changing the terrible economic condiditions in our country after the bush/cheney administration depleted the country of the CLINTON PRESIDENCY SURPLUS

because lets not forget that when President Clinton went into his firt term, he inherited the Bush/Reagan massive 12 year deficit

and that when also President Clinton went into office, NAFTA, had already been drafted under the republican administrations of Bush/Reagan

so lets not get confused when we start shooting the fingers at just who done went can and caused so much disaster in our country because if Mr. bush's father had taken into consideration what under his terms in the NAFTA agreement he was doing to american workers, we would not have the exodus of american companies and corporations exploiting the country of Mexico with the worse slave wages in human history

SO IF WE HAVE THE SAME BUSH LEFTOVERS FROM OTHER BUSH FAILED REAGAN ADMINISTRATIONS WHY ON EARTH DID WE ALLOW THIS BUSH JR. TO COME AND DO THE SAME THINGS THIS REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE TO OUR COUNTRY?

and just where in the hell does the Vatican get the idea they have the power to change the rules of receiving communion? are you kidding me?

or are you telling we the american people that the same perversion in the catholic church who allowed perverted priests to remain in practice abusing little boys

HEY MR.POPE IN THE VATICAN WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE WAS REPORTED TO THE WORLD THE PERVERSITY THE VATICAN ALLOWED IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SO WE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THE ABUSE OF THE ALTAR BOYS AND NOW THIS SAME TAINTED VATICAN WITH PERVERSITY WANTS TO WHAT!

THE ONLY TEMPLE HOLY ENOUGH IN THE MEMORY OF MAN SHALL REMAIN THE CRUCIFIXTION AND THOU SHALL NOT KNEEL TO OTHER IMAGES EITHER MADE OF PORCELAIN OR HUMAN FLESH

is bull and corruption of the highest degree to corruptedly and advantaeously control a society to bleed it on every sunday in exchange for the purging of thier sins for all this sinners who sin all week and expect forgivness on sunday, IT AINT HAPPENING FOLKS, ITS ALL BEEN LIE THOU HAS BEEN LIED TO BY THESE TRAMPS! who knew about the priest perversity and didn't stop it and now they want to with thier throbbing robes control religion by asking what of a worshipper seeking communion?

as far as I am concerned as a roman catholic christian all the flesh boned mortals offering communion are not clean enough to hold the cup of communion and instead of trying to the Vatican on this election why dont you mr. pope clean up your act of perverts in the church where here we see the church struggling to pay for the sins of their priests to avoid going to jail for being perverts hiding under religious robes instead of messing with the rules of communion or what are we? retreating to the brainwash religion tactics who kept the women from voting and the african american race from being slaves?

if the vaticano really wants to change something they should try to change the way they hide from the world their treasonous traitorous acts against the laws of the church which fondling the choir boys is certainly not part of one this is what the old goat should do in the Vatican tell us why the priest perversity was allowed by the Vatican while at the same time denying women a role in the Vatican because I am sick and tired of all this bull that only this pare de testicles are the only ones clean enough to go near the vatican when it has been this Vatican under this Pope who had all this perverted priests

The time has come to face reality and george bush and the extreme right seem to not understand that we are tired of seeing american troops coming back in coffins because george bush does not know when to stop this slaughter and bloodbath he has caused in Iraq and hell if the baath party must have not stained its hands with war blood in order to be allowed to serve in the country of Iraq

I can only wonder what we will do to an appointed "president" who has american troops blood dripping from head to toe because this oil war bush made, has just opened up a big cemetary dedicated all to bush's insane war in Iraq yes america the "american cemetery" the country of Iraq promised us because bush has made a cemetery out of Iraq and I think we have seen enough death in Iraq of young troops whose lives were cut short to fight what war?

WHAT WAR ARE WE FIGHTING WHEN SADDAM HAS BEEN CAUGHT,HIS SONS HAVE BEEN ASSASSINATED BY THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT SO THEY can never come again and live and breathe

and there were no weapons found pointing our way or any trace of the twin tower rubble was found in Iraq, in fact

IT IS NOW PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE THAT THE HIJACKERS WERE ALL TRAINED LICENSED AND HARBORED IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA

IT IS NOW A KNOWN FACT THAT OF ALL THE HIJACKERS, MOST OF THEM WERE SAUDIS AND NOW WE HEAR BUSH IS IN CAHOOTS WITH THE SAUDIS TO MANIPULATE THE 2004 ELECTION WITH RIGGED GASOLINE PRICES

we cannot keep delivering the kids in soldier uniforms so that g.i. joe can continue his sick little war agenda to suit his political platform because then we risk of being insane also and so this cannot afford to be an insane country and we must recognize that no longer are we fighting a war but a crazy scheme where the exploitation of billions of dollars is in used

and no longer can we afford "4 billion dollars a month"to satisfy the political gluttony of bush jr., the biggest mistake in american history

Kerry has the following SILVER STAR certificate -- Signed by John H. Hyland, Pacific Fleet Commander and Then a SECOND certificate signed by Lehman.

Find law has the following SILVER STAR certificate -- Signed by Elmo Zumalt, Vietnam Commander.

While the event and date are the same These 2 Silver Star Certificates have DIFFERENT writeups.

Discrepancies noted in Kerry's record
Ex-skipper says website wrong
Boston Globe
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff
April 23, 2004

On the site, the Massachusetts senator is described as the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 during several actions in late January 1969.

"Those are definitely mine," Peck said, referring to the combat reports that the Kerry campaign posted as representing Kerry's action. "There is no doubt about it."

Peck said he was the skipper on this day as well. Peck was also injured in the ambush and was hospitalized.

Name:

Nightbird from Nantucket

Message:
Here's another SUV in Kerry's driveway at his Nantucket home:

waffle

I thought he was against SUVs???

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

Name:	Smedley
To:	Kerry Military Records and other Great Fiction???

In response to:

The Kerry Military Record Scandal Intensifies!

Message:
Whether or not Kerry was skipper of Boat 94 at the time is unsure. However, I'm pretty sure John Leyman wasn't Secretary of the Navy in 1969.

Kerry needs to sign a release so that the public can directly view Kerry's record WITHOUT interference and possible scamming from Kerry.

Name:	Boogey
Re:	Clyde said "Hmmm...?", and Bonnie said, "OK".

In response to:
Flipper In Heat

The Boston Fog Report
An ongoing examination of John Kerry’s “nuances and shades of gray in both foreign and domestic policy.” (Editorial, “A Primary Endorsement,” The New York Times, 2/26/04)

for·a·gainst adverb.

1. To be both for and against something at the same time: e.g. “I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Blasts Bush On Protecting Troops,” The Boston Globe, 3/17/04)

"Only John Kerry could take both sides on whether or not he owns an SUV."
-Steve Schmidt, Bush-Cheney '04 Spokesman

THE BOSTON FOG ROLLS OVER KERRY'S CHEVY SUBURBAN:

Kerry Claims "I Don't Own An SUV." "During a conference call Thursday with reporters to discuss his upcoming jobs tour through West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan, the Democratic presidential candidate was asked whether he owned a Chevrolet Suburban. 'I don't own an SUV,' said Kerry, who supports increasing existing fuel economy standards to 36 miles per gallon by 2015 in order to reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil supplies." ("Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He," Associated Press, 4/22/04)

Kerry Admits Family Owns SUV. Kerry thought for a second when asked whether his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, had a Suburban at their Ketchum, Idaho, home. Kerry said he owns and drives a Dodge 600 and recently bought a Chrysler 300M. He said his wife owns the Chevrolet SUV. 'The family has it. I don't have it,' he said." ("Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He," Associated Press, 4/22/04)

In February During A Visit To Michigan Kerry Bragged Of Owning Several SUVs, Including Chevy Suburban. "Q. What kind of vehicles does your family drive? A. We have some SUVs. We have a Jeep. We have a couple of Chrysler minivans. We have a PT Cruiser up in Boston. I have an old Dodge 600 that I keep in the Senate. … We also have a Chevy, a big Suburban." ("Kerry: 'I Can Beat George Bush,'" The Detroit News, 2/5/04)

Name:	Democrats in Free Fall
Re:	Liberal Media

Message:
The liberal media, working as a supporter of John F'n Kerry, decided to publish pictures of coffins thinking that might help get Kerry elected. Like usual the liberal media's glee at attacking Bush blinded them and they did not do any fact checking. Turns out many of the pictures are of the Space Shuttle crew's coffins. Oops!

Name:	MEMRI Report
To:	Pat Buchanon
Re:	A useful reference for you...

Message:
April 23, 2004 No.700

Leading Egyptian Journalist: The Jews are Behind Every Disaster or Terrorist Act

In an article in the Egyptian government daily Al-Gumhouriyya titled 'The Secret Israeli Weapon,' deputy editor Abd Al-Wahhab 'Adas accused the Jews of perpetrating all terrorism throughout the world, including the Madrid bombings. The following are excerpts from the article:(1)

'The Zionist Jews are Behind All the Violent and Terror Operations that have Occurred Everywhere In the World'

"If you want to know the real perpetrator of every disaster or every act of terrorism, look for the Zionist Jews. They are behind all the violent and terror operations that have occurred everywhere in the world. [They do this] first of all in order to slap [the label of the attacks] on the Arabs and Muslims, and second to harm them, distort their image, and represent them to the world as terrorists who endanger innocents. What is even more dangerous is that after every terror operation they perpetrate, they leave a sign, clue, or traces meant to show that the perpetrators are Arab Muslims.

"Their most recent operation was the bombings in Spain. Spanish Interior Minister Angel Acebes said a videocassette in Arabic was found near one of the Madrid mosques, and in it the military spokesman of the Al-Qa'ida organization took responsibility for these attacks. But [Acebes] repeatedly contradicted [himself] by saying that the credibility of the cassette had not yet been proven... In addition, a van was found next to the Atocha train station in Madrid with traces of explosives and a cassette of the Koran.

"It is obvious that the Jews are the ones who placed these things, in order to prove to the entire world that the Arabs and Muslims are behind the bombings. But because Allah wanted to expose them and their games, the Spanish prime minister declared immediately after the incident that the explosives that were used in these [attacks] were of the same type used by the ETA organization in previous explosions!! This in addition to the U.S. statement that the cassette that was found was not genuine and did not belong to the Al-Qa'ida organization, but had been planted [to implicate] them."

'It Is the Jews, with their Hidden Filthy Hands, Who Play their Part with Expertise In Order to Harm the Arabs and Muslims'

"It is the Jews, with their hidden filthy hands, who play their part with expertise in order to harm the Arabs and Muslims and to intensify hatred towards them. They have experience in this area. All precedents attest to this. Their black history is the best possible proof that hatred toward the Arabs and the Muslims fills their hearts and blinds their eyes. They are behind all troubles, disasters and catastrophes in the world."

"Actually, it is they who are behind the events of September 11. Proof of this is what was broadcast by the Canadian news agency on September 17 ... that prior to the events the CIA had received a report that the Mossad would carry out an attack operation on American territory, in a new attempt to divert attention from the barbaric Israeli operations against the Palestinian people.

"Further [proof] of this is the news in the American papers at that time, that 4,000 Jews of American origin who worked at the World Trade Center received instructions from the Mossad not to go to work that day.

"We also find a heavy blackout by America regarding the results of the investigations into the September 11 events. So far it has published no conclusions, and has not told us who the real perpetrator of these events is, as revealed by the investigations. Since America knows very well that the Jews and the Mossad are behind these events, it will never declare the results of the investigations. This is so as not to anger its ally Israel and in order to evade the evil of these Jews and of the Zionist lobby that infiltrates and rules the decision-makers in America. In addition, the ongoing blaming of the Arabs and Muslims gives America justification to escalate and develop this wild attack on the Muslims, even though it is an imaginary charge not grounded in reality."

"America used this kind of discredited arguments and justifications as it invaded Iraq, occupied its land, and plundered its resources. The people of Iraq was massacred before the eyes of the world with the claim that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction - and America is the first to know that this claim is completely discredited. Thus, America created its own justification, used it to convince the world, and accomplished its goals.

"Israel is the worst terrorist state in the world. It not only engages in terror in the Palestinian territories but exports it to all the countries of the world. The Mossad plays its terrorist role by means of these bombings everywhere, as it did previously in America. No one knows who the next victim of these Zionists will be.

"Israel is not settling for its barbaric massacres of the Palestinian people or the ongoing annihilation of everything Palestinian... Its crimes are spreading outward so that its hand will reach other innocent peoples. This is with the aim of harming Arabs and Muslims, increasing hatred towards them, and slapping them [with the label of] terrorism, so the world remains preoccupied with terrorism and not with [Israel's] barbaric crimes to eliminate the Palestinian people.

"Terrorism is an Israeli product that Zionism invented in order to establish the State of Israel. Then this state used it [i.e. terrorism] in order to achieve its goals and aspirations to expand and to control the resources in the region. The Mossad carries out larger-scale [terrorism] in order to harm the good name of the Arabs, damage them and Islam, and slapping them [with the label of] terrorism.

"Events prove that Israel was perhaps the first to benefit from the September 11 incidents, and from the incidents that came after it. It planned them, misled the world, and convinced it that it was the Arabs and Muslims who carried it out."

Name:

Boston Tea Party Not

Message:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lukas200404231230.asp

This weekend, liberal activists converge on Washington, D.C., for an event they dub the "March for Women's Lives." Although abortion is its centerpiece, the march is also intended to send the message that the "women's movement" is vast and powerful in general. Organizers are promising hundreds of thousands of demonstrators, a horde bearing fearful tidings to politicians: Oppose the feminist agenda at your peril.

It's a pivotal event for leftist-feminist outfits like the National Organization for Women. These groups have failed to keep in touch with the concerns of most American women, and are thus growing increasingly irrelevant to mainstream politics. Consider that the once-mighty National Council of Women's Organizations managed to scrape together just 40 protestors against Augusta National's men-only membership policy — despite more than 100 stories about the crusade in the New York Times. And even the Times recognized that the feminists' endorsement of Carol Mosley Braun's presidential campaign was "silly." The upcoming campaign is no more promising, with "NASCAR dads" threatening to replace "soccer moms" as the hot demographic quarry. Meanwhile, fewer than one-quarter of young women today are willing to label themselves "feminists."

Feminist groups and their supporters must see a march on Washington as a way for the movement to regain its former glory. And they're pulling out all the stops to pull it off. The guest list includes both prominent policymakers and big-name entertainers like Jennifer Aniston and Janeane Garofalo.

Ultimately, though, star power isn't going to do it. To bolster their rapidly eroding credibility, feminists must prove that their platform is about more than just abortion. And they need to craft an agenda that is not only far-reaching but that also speaks to the concerns of most American women. Unfortunately for their movement, that would require an openness to new ideas about what's best for women today — a mindset feminist leaders seem incapable of embracing.

As it has for decades, the feminist movement continues to offer women only one "solution" for every conceivable hardship or problem: more government. It demands health care from Washington, federally funded child care, higher taxes, and greater regulation of private employers. Feminists oppose initiatives that give individuals more control, such as education policies that allow parents to choose their children's schools and Social Security reforms that offer individuals options for how to save for retirement. "Choice" applies to reproduction alone; in all other areas, the modern feminist movement clamors for government to run women's lives.

This is a sorry departure from feminism's historical roots. Once upon a time, the movement was about true independence for women. It opposed the legal and social structures that limited women's options in the workplace and civil society. It focused on freeing women to succeed or fail on their own abilities and efforts. Today the movement wants to free women not from discrimination, but from responsibility, and the consequences of voluntary choices. Instead of urging women who reject traditional bonds of marriage and family to stand on their own, they want Uncle Sam to serve as provider and safety net.

------------------------ (Full text of the article can be read at the URL above)

Name:	CAMPAIGN ISSUES, INC.
To:	Forum

In response to:
THE TWISTED MESS THIS CAMPAIGN IS BECOMING

Kerry's SUV -- & who does it belong to? WHO CARES? Is this the issue upon which the FATE of the NATION hangs? -- it is more like childish distractions, to make us forget what a good & decent man Kerry is, every day of his life, & not like Bush, a drunken AWOL Skull & Bones creep, who lied us into an unnecessary War, to Bankrupt our Economy, & kill off hundreds of our innocent soldiers, & stole our surplus to give to the wealthy, (LET THEM PAY FOR THIS CRUMMY WAR),

Do people take stands on issues & not necessarily follow them in their personal lives? YES. Take for instance a guy who goes AWOL during war time, & then is all gung ho for our children to get murdered on the field of battle. It is common for Geo Bush to "waffle" on any IMPORTANT issue, to hold the massive right wing contributors in his palm.

Take even more famous men, like Thomas Jefferson who had slaves, -- Yet we KNOW he was against slavery, but he could not go against an entire nation who depended on that for economic reasons. See? He believed in freeing the slaves, & DID free some of his slaves, but he HAD THEM. Did the Philadelphia Newspapers scream, "Waffler?" -- NO, they had better common sense, & knew the REAL issues of the day.

Discrepancies in Kerry's War Record --- does that even surprise you? The Govt has been known to screw up on many levels, & the military is one of the worst, with all their boondoggles, secret slush funds, covert operations to steal from the budget, -- Heck, when I was a USAF wife, they even screwed up the base phone directory. Records routinely were flushed down the toilet.. That is why they call it SNAFU.

On the Catholic Communion issue: I believe the Church is treading on thin ice, with this. If they allowed their priests to screw little boys behind the altar, without taking away THEIR rights to Communion, -- heck they were not only taking communion, but GIVING it,-- then they have no credibility to take away Communion just for an OPINION.

This is America, & the Vatican should have NO POWER to influence our rituals here, by radically CHANGING the list of "sins" you can or cannot be forgiven for. The Church is supposed to FORGIVE anything that is a sin, not punish or humiliate people just for having independent thought. It is a RIGHT of Americans, to have their OWN moral opinions.

The Catholic Church elected a Pope just before John Paul, who wanted to allow abortion & women in the church. He mysteriously "died" (some say murdered) just a few days after he was elected.

So now, since priests cannot marry, they only get homo men to serve the wine & offer the biscuit, & then they have these episodes of pedophilia. By not allowing birth control & abortion, we have global over-population, which leads to massive starvation & disease epidemics & poverty. People cannot afford to have 10 kids in modern life. This also has led to warfare, as higher populations require more land & food, so nation battles nation to gain more land & crops.

THIS POPE seems to be very kind, enlightened, & he has tried to make Peace with the Jews & all other religions, & to ask forgiveness for the Inquisition & Crusades & the other past evils done by the Church. I think, if he was on his own, (without a bunch of crabby Cardinals to contend with), he would re-think this whole abortion issue, but he is too old & feeble, & chained down to be able to do it.

ALL people, in this great United States have the RIGHT to speak their mind, choose their Faith, live under their own best moral standards, & occasionally disobey some of the rules. Civil disobedience in the Fight for integration, & Thoreau went to jail rather than pay taxes on some little island. Conscientious objectors who refused to go to War. Little old ladies who refused to ride in the back of the bus. I know LOTS of Catholics who use birth control & also have had abortions. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE. I even know Nuns who would not judge them harshly for that, since having children is ONLY a personal decision, between a woman & her God. Nobody else should ever be involved.

IN THIS NATION, you have to abide by the Laws of the Land, & RIGHT NOW IN AMERICA, Roe vs Wade, IS THE LAW, & it specifically says that Abortion is Allowed by our Supreme Court, which makes it official. (For the last 32 years).

Therefore, Bush (or any President) is BREAKING THE LAW OF THE LAND, if he tries to Limit a Woman's Right to Choose if she has a child or not.

So by KERRY saying YES TO ABORTION, he is following the LAW of the Supreme Court, & also allowing Women to be EQUAL to men, in having our personal rights to choose.

Men since ancient times have tried to limit women's freedom. In ancient China, women had their feet bound so they could only hobble slowly around. This kept them close to home, unable to get away from their husband. In some cultures, women were stoned to death for even a perception that they had committed adultery. Men used to laugh & say they never had to worry about their woman straying, since they always kept her "barefoot & pregnant". Even in early US history, Men got the vote near 1776, & WOMEN DID NOT get the VOTE, until 1920. (144 YEARS LATER). Stop & think that women just got the Vote, AFTER my Mom was 4 yrs old.

Now, in some Republican right wing circles, & even on Rush Limbaugh, he often says things like Women should not have the right to vote. WOMEN TEND TO VOTE MORE LIBERAL than men. And if we are not kept home, having dozens of kids, (barefoot & pregnant) then we MIGHT get into Politics & "threaten" the good old boy Network. We might just THROW some of the power hungry crooks out of their cigar-filled rooms with Skull & Bones ceremonies, & BRING SHOME FRESH AIR TO POLITICS. --- AND HERE YOU HAVE IT -- WHY DOES THE RIGHT WING (esp Men) HATE HILLARY so much? Because she is the Epitome Example of WHAT WE ALL COULD TRY TO BE, a lady with education, class, style, independence, & intelligence who will bring Wisdom & a Feminine perspective to their world game. Where men ruled supreme, with evil schemes and criminal deals, & international intrigue, & dope smuggling.

Now in walks Snow White, into the Den of Thieves, who could put a monkey wrench into all their filthy corruption. (It is like the first lady who joined an All-Male union, & they could not WAIT to get rid of her. They said they could not burp, fart, wear baggy clothes, & tell filthy jokes all day with her around, so they sabotaged & got rid of her).

So with Hillary, the most corrupt men will tell lies & scheme all day long, to smear & distort her character & her achievements. They are NOT only afraid of HER, & what she represents -- female power, grace, dignity, & an END To their dirty old boy Network, -- but by SMEARING HER, they hope to Discourage ANY OTHER FEMALE from following in her giant footsteps. THEY ARE AFRAID WOMEN COULD take control.

So now the right wingers, who are "so afraid" of Hillary that they have entire INDUSTRIES devoted to attack on her & Bill's reputations. Dozens of phoney religious leaders like Jerry Falwell, who shamelessly sells for profit tapes that he KNOWS are FALSE about the Clintons. The entire Scaife-Mellon attack machine, & the VRWC, which does not need explanation. NOW THE ATTACK GOES INTO OUR VERY BEDROOMS. Women should not have the right to choose their own LIFE, or what they do with their own BODY.

Unlike men, who screw & run about 12 times a week, a lady must have her entire life messed up, due to a stray sperm, emitted by a man who is just "playing around" in between ball games & bar hopping. Why? Is HER LIFE ANY LESS Important than his? Should she be chained down with all the responsibility for the next 18-20 years? While he is blithely running off to screw a few hundred or thousand more chicks? If a MAN does not have to take care of any children he produces (by accident) then neither should the woman. If you believe otherwise, you DO NOT RESPECT WOMEN & their Right to Life. MY LIFE matters, so I believe that if a Woman is Pregnant, SHE has a "Right to Life", every bit as much, (& probably more) than any fetus (2 inches long).

If every fetus is sacred, as a potential life, then so is every sperm. Every sperm is capable of becoming a human life. BUT DO WE THROW MEN in jail, for masturbating, & thus "killing off a human life?" -- NO -- Men kill off a few thousand human lives every week, into bed & toilet.

What if women got really provincial & dictatorial, & we insisted that every man MUST wear a rubber band around their pe.nis all day & night, to prevent them from doing any harm to their sperm? (a human potential life). Men would just laugh, BUT IF WE HAD THAT POWER to make a LAW that would FORCE THEM TO DO IT, what would they do? They would howl & complain that WE HAD NO RIGHT TO INTERFERE WITH THEIR OWN PERSONAL BODY.- Or their private bodily choices in their own bedroom. -- Sound familiar?

Next: If modern science made it possible to implant the conceived fetus into the MAN for 9 months, instead of his lady lover, - how many men would volunteer to do this?

NOW, consider this: Let's pretend that this marvel of science had already occurred. That routinely men could have their "objects of conception" implanted into their bellies for 9 months. SO if the guy got some random acquaintance pregnant by "failure to aim correctly at the toilet", or other accidental means. The LAW said that ONE OF THEM, had to carry the baby to full term. And take care of it for the next 18-20 years. And MEN had a 50/50 chance of being the selected "carrier" of Fetal Development. So while he was busy waddling around with a belly like an elephant, he could not play soccer, racketball, & get drunk frequently, & neither could he run off to bars impregnating other women at random, for the next 9 months.

I don't know what the Future would call this new procedure. -- but Maybe -- POETIC JUSTICE?

HURRAY for the truly good men in this world, who hold ideals, courage, integrity, & faith, -- who can be trusted with a Woman's Right to Choose, & be EQUAL, at last. We are lucky to have John Kerry, Howard Dean, & the whole lineup of the Democratic Party. Men who respect & love women.

Name:	Hillary Supporter
To:	forum

In response to:
Kerry Claims "I Don't Own An SUV." "During a conference call Thursday with reporters to discuss his upcoming jobs tour through West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan, the Democratic presidential candidate was asked whether he owned a Chevrolet Suburban. 'I don't own an SUV,' said Kerry, who supports increasing existing fuel economy standards to 36 miles per gallon by 2015 in order to reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil supplies." ("Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He," Associated Press, 4/22/04)

Message:
I cannot believe Kerry lied about the SUV issue. This man is full of lies mis-statements. How can he claim he cares about the environment and then own a stable of suv vehicles??? He lied again to the American people!!

Name:	megan
To:	forum

In response to:
Kerry's SUV -- & who does it belong to? WHO CARES? Is

Message:
The American People do stupid! How many times can this man (John Kerry) flip flop issue's ? Why lie at all then if the ownership of a SUV is in question?

Name:	Now and Zen
Re:	38 Million Not Expected at DC Abortion Rights Rally

Message:
(2004-04-21) -- Although several hundred thousand abortion rights supporters are expected to march in Washington D.C. this coming Sunday, a spokesman for a major special interest group said its members would not attend the rally.

The American Association of Aborted People (AAAP), a political inaction committee, said none of its 38 million members would participate in the protest march.

"Since the landmark Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision in 1973, our ranks have swelled by about 1.4 million per year," said the unnamed AAAP spokesman. "So, we should be at the center of any debate about abortion. Unfortunately, none of our members could tear themselves away to attend the rally. But we'll be there in spirit, if not in body."

Name:	Real Man
To:	Womynpersun aka "bitter...party of one"

In response to:
And take care of it for the next 18-20 years. And MEN had a 50/50 chance of being the selected "carrier" of Fetal Development. So while he was busy waddling around with a belly like an elephant, he could not play soccer, racketball, & get drunk frequently, & neither could he run off to bars impregnating other women at random

Name:	Ta Raisa Yotaxes
Re:	Kerry Slams 'Fat Cats' Who Fund His Campaign

Message:
(2004-04-21) -- Democrat presidential hopeful John Forbes Kerry today took aim at "corporate fat cats who try to buy political influence" by raising money for Mr. Kerry's campaign.

"Wealthy elitists contributed much of the $57 million that my campaign took in over past three months," said Mr. Kerry. "They know that this money will inevitably influence my decisions when I'm president. I'll be biased toward my wealthy cronies. After all, look what happened to George Bush. How could I escape the same fate?"

Mr. Kerry called on the United Nations to limit campaign contributions from the wealthy.

"When I'm president, I'll work with Secretary-General Kofi Annan to create an international income tax on the obscenely rich--those who earn more than $125,000 per year," he said. "We need to send a message to these fat cats that they're no better than the ordinary, middle-class slobs who have nothing left to give to my campaign after they've paid their union dues and contributed to public broadcasting."

Name:

BAAAHH

In response to:
And if we are not kept home, having dozens of kids.....

Name:	Juan Trigo
To:	forum
Re:	http://www.benning.army.mil/rtb/ranger/CREED.htm

In response to:
Join the movement to make the NFL 40 yard line RED WHITE AND BLUE in honor of Pat Tillman #40 who gave up a fortune and NFL fame and glory for his country. Three cheers for Army Ranger Pat Tillman! Hip! Hip! Hooray!!!Hoist a brew for #40 and the red, White, and Blue. We are serious about pressuring the NFL for that 40 yard line color change to RED, WHIT and Blue. All who see it would be reminded of his most honorable sacrifice.U.S. Army Ranger's Creed http://www.benning.army.mil/rtb/ranger/CREED.htm

Message:
Apr 23, 3:29 PM (ET) By JOHN J. LUMPKIN (AP) Former Arizona Cardinals safety Pat Tillman pulls in an interception with one hand in this file... Full Image WASHINGTON (AP) - Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan after walking away from a multimillion-dollar NFL contract to join the Army Rangers, U.S. officials said Friday. Tillman, who served with the Army Rangers, was 27. Although the military had not officially confirmed his death, the White House put out a statement of sympathy that praised Tillman as "an inspiration both on and off the football field." Lt. Col. Matt Beevers, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Kabul, confirmed that a U.S. soldier was killed Thursday evening, but would not say whether it was Tillman. A military official at the Pentagon confirmed it was Tillman. (AP) Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb (5) pushes Arizona Cardinals' Pat Tillman away as he... Full Image Beevers said the soldier died after a firefight

Name:

...

In response to:
And if we are not kept home, having dozens of kids.....

Name:	VOTERS BEWARE
Re:	Coming Soon to a Voting Booth Near You

In response to:
REPUBLICANS are AT IT AGAIN:

Not satisfied with "Rigging" the 2000 Election, to make Bush the first non-elected President in History

Republicans are forcing voting districts all over the USA, to use "rigged" & poorly programmed voter machines.

The 2000 presidential election confirmed in the minds of millions, what many more have long suspected: That our Democracy is being systematically undermined by "organized fraud" in e-voter machines & vote scams.

The Omnibus Appropriations Bill, (Oct 2002), will force most states to switch from paper balloting to a computerized system -- one that is currently filled with programming flaws, & can't be audited -- which could question the legitimacy of all future elections, - & put the wrong candidates into office.

Bev Harris, (Seattle) who runs a small PR business, is credited with uncovering the flaws in electronic voting machines, in her recent book called "Black Box Voting".

Harris recently uncovered "some 40,000 files that included user manuals, source code & executable files for voting machines made by DIEBOLD, a corp in No. Canton, Ohio," (Aug. 21 - Seattle Times), and she exposed the massive flaws in Diebold's software, that can easily be manipulated. [See: www.scoop.co.nz].

Diebold's CEO, Walden O'Dell, at a fundraiser his company sponsored for PRES BUSH last week, promised the president that his company would "deliver" the necessary votes needed to keep Bush in the White House for a 2nd term.

This prompted Democrats in Congress to call for DIEBOLD to remove its machines from next year's primary election.

The disastrous 2000 presidential election and the ballot recount in Florida, with "hanging chads" making it nearly impossible to figure out whether people had voted for Gore or for Bush, led many legislators to outlaw paper balloting in favor of computerized voting machines.

Rebecca Mercuri, a computer science professor at Bryn Mawr College, is a vocal opponent of paperless balloting. She says that it leaves no paper trail, making it ripe for manipulation. "Any programmer can write code that displays one thing on a screen, records something else, and prints yet another result," she said."There is no known way to ensure that this is not happening inside of a voting system. No electronic vote system has been certified to even the lowest level of US govt or computer security standards..."

Even before "hanging chads" became a household phrase, BACK In Nov 1998, an election in Hawaii was held using computers designed by Electronic Systems & Software, (ES&S) -- a company with close ties to REPUBLICAN lawmakers in Wash, DC.

One such lawmaker, Sen. Chuck Hagel, (REPUBLICAN from Nebr), was part owner & CEO of ES&S, a company that made all the voting equipment used to count votes during his last 2 runs for office, yet he failed to list those ties on federal disclosure forms.

ES&S' had 361 voting machines used in Hawaii elections in Nov, 1998 - & SEVEN of them malfunctioned: (five units had lens occlusion, one unit had a defective cable, & one unit had a defective "read head"), which led to Hawaii's first ever statewide "election review" (a first in US history). Hundreds of voters complained to local election officials that the candidates they picked did not register in the computer system.

Dozens of other horror stories arose from the "Omnibus bill" -- & these too involve Florida & a Bush. The new touch-screen equipment used during the Sept 2002 Florida elections "wrongfully" credited GOP candidate Jeb Bush in one precinct, when votes were cast for the Democratic Gov candidate, - due to a "misaligned" touch screen. No one knows how many votes were mis-recorded. [NOTE THAT THE VOTE WAS SKEWED TOWARD THE REPUBLICANS.]

Miami-Dade was still upset over the 2000 presidential election that helped put George Bush in office. For the primary election, the county spent $25 million to buy 7,200 voting machines, but many polling places opened late or did not have enough machines running. Many poll workers had problems collecting votes from the machines, delaying the final results of the election for a WEEK.

In May, a Miami-Dade Inspector General released results of a 7 month investigation into the e-voting machines that were credited with helping Jeb Bush secure a 2nd term.

The results of the probe are damning. For one, ES&S, the company that provided touch-screen voting machines to Miami-Dade, had misled officials about the quality of the equipment, "hardly state-of-the-art technology,"

Moreover, ES&S told county officials that its voting machines could run a trilingual ballot, in English, Spanish & Creole. AND that having a trilingual system would not require additional data storage capacity. FALSE.

In Palm Beach last March, when a losing candidate challenged election results, a local judge denied the challenger the opportunity to inspect the machines, citing the rights of the mfr, SEQUOIA, to protect its "trade secrets".

In Febr 2003, Daniel Spillane blew the whistle on VoteHere, an e-voting machine company in Wash, D.C., -- run by a senior MILITARY AIDE to VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY, & whose board includes former CIA Director ROBERT GATES. Mr. Spillane claimed the company's patented digital- ballot software contained "severe programming errors", which could lead to "massive deletion of ballots".

Spillane claims that VoteHere thwarted an independent review of its software. Spillane said he told company executives (& then he was fired), just hours before VoteHere met with the Independent Test Authority, (an auditing group for e-voting equipment & software).

Spillane and Mercuri wrote in November about SEQUOIA Voting Systems, seeking to install electronic voting booths in Santa Clara County, California. Most of Sequoia's machines provide no receipts or physical audit trails, (used for a recount), which ripens the prospects for election fraud. Many experts have been barred from examining Sequoia's product, due to special "trade-secret" agreements.

Spillane, Mercuri, and 453 other technologists have endorsed a "Resolution on Electronic Voting" which WARNS of the dangers inherent in electronic voting systems.

That programming error, equipment malfunction, and malicious tampering are serious risks, which call for a verifiable audit trail -- a permanent, tamper-free record of each vote,

Name:	Forum
To:	bordertex

In response to:
is bull and corruption of the highest degree to corruptedly and advantaeously control a society to bleed it on every sunday in exchange for the purging of thier sins for all this sinners who sin all week and expect forgivness on sunday, IT AINT HAPPENING FOLKS, ITS ALL BEEN LIE THOU HAS BEEN LIED TO BY THESE DEMOCRAT TRAMPS! who knew about the SENATE perversity and didn't stop it and now they want to with thier throbbing suits control religion by asking what of a worshipper seeking communion? FOR CELIBACY? as far as I am concerned as a devout atheist all the flesh boned mortals offerin ...

Name:	NEW GOVT in IRAQ
Re:	-- the beginning of enlightenment

In response to:
Interesting, the Bush Admin is now considering the Ba'ath Party of Saddam Hussein, as the ruling body to take over a new Iraq govt, near June 30. It would also be fitting to restore Saddam Hussein himself, as Leader, of that chaotic country, since he is the ONLY ONE who can restore order.

Message:
Since we have now ascertained by 13 months of destructive invasion & searching, that NO W-M-D exist, and that Saddam was INNOCENT all along, -- so we demolished his palaces & his country FOR NOTHING, & murdered his 2 sons. I think it would be fitting to forego a charade of a Trial, for what? To ask him why he DID get rid of the weapons, & had told the Truth, that all weapons were destroyed in 1992?

He was the only cement, the only glue that held that fractured nation together. Through HIS leadership alone, the various factions held together without street combat & killing each other, in some semblance of civilized society. He was duly elected (supposedly by 100% of the vote) & he was accepted & respected as leader by MOST Iraqis. If they were a criminal disruptor, that might have been another matter, but you can see, a great deal of the population over there, NEEDED TO BE RULED BY A STRONG HAND. And if you had to spread a few rumors of Torture, or whatever, to make the "rabble" fear you, & obey the law, then so be it.

After time of seeing them up close, you can see that a lot of superstition abounds in the minds & hearts of the Iraqis, & that they were susceptible to believing & of spreading rumors. Rumors & Lies. Legends told to make them obedient & afraid to uprise & engage in criminal violence.

Maybe all this time, Saddam has been the Wizard of Oz, hiding behind the curtain, making loud fearsome noises, to keep the people afraid of his awesome power. But if you look closely behind the curtain, you will see a man who loves America, & tried to emulate us in every way, in his dress, his movies, his art, his music, -- he WAS our ally for many years. And ONE IMPORTANT POINT, he built at least one or two PEACE PALACES, with huge flying white doves on the walls. He expressed a desire to have a DEBATE with Geo Bush, & tell the world his desire for Peace, & how he had already disarmed, & "let the people decide" who was telling the Truth. But BUSH of course would NOT allow THAT. So now we know. That Saddam told the Truth. And we bombed his whole country & ruined his palaces, & killed his 2 sons. All because some Bozo told us he had W-M-D, which was a big fat LIE. George Tenet & others believed a bunch of crap.

Isn't it awful to think -- what if they HAD that debate in March 2003, instead of the Bombing? If the people of the US had the opportunity to hear the voice & speech of Saddam Hussein, where he told us he was NOT an Enemy of America, & treated us with respect, UNLESS we came there as a soldier/invader. How Tragic, to look under tons of debris & twisted metal, & crumbled granite, to find underneath it all, were 2 huge beautiful white statues - Doves of Peace.

Name:	SAD at the THOUGHT
To:	NEW GOVT in IRAQ

In response to:
Since we have now ascertained by 13 months of destructive invasion & searching, that NO W-M-D exist, and that Saddam was INNOCENT all along, -- so we demolished his palaces & his country FOR NOTHING, & murdered his 2 sons. I think it would be fitting to forego a charade of a Trial, for what? To ask him why he DID get rid of the weapons, & had told the Truth, that all weapons were destroyed in 1992? He was the only cement, the only glue that held that fractured nation together. Through HIS leadership alone, the various factions held together without street combat & killing each other, in so ...

Message:
Your post was the saddest thing I have read in a long time. What if you are right? How awful it would be for the USA to have done such a terrible thing, only to find that it was all a mistake.

Name:	People of Iraq
To:	Stupid American

In response to:
We've been naughty...You must spank us all

Message:
You stupid American. Can't you take anything seriously? Must you make a joke of everything? Is nothing sacred?

Don't you have enough sense to acknowledge that if what the poster said is true America would be shamed in history for a very long time?

Just pray there's is a good reason why thousands of Iraqis had to die and 700 of our brave soldiers.

Name:	ET
To:	CAMPAIGN ISSUES, INC.

In response to:
On the Catholic Communion issue: I believe the Church is treading on thin ice, with this. If they allowed their priests to screw little boys behind the altar, without taking away THEIR rights to Communion, -- heck they were not only taking communion, but GIVING it,-- then they have no credibility to take away Communion just for an OPINION.

Name:	Also a Forum Fan
To:	Forum Fan

In response to:
It is pretty hard to be a "big-time boozer" and a military fighter jet pilot at the same time but the Hillary forum eagerly awaits your presentation of supporting evidence.

Message:
Bush admitted that he stopped boozing at age 40 when Laura said to him, "It's the bottle or me."

So we must conclude, from Bush's own confession that he was a boozer when he flew fighter planes, and that the reason they took him off the planes was for "medical reasons" because he was an alcoholic.

George Bush is what they call a "Dry Drunk" - This is a person who is able to contol himself to stay off the alcohol, but cannot drink socially like normal people do.

Name:	Guava Enchilada
To:	MERCI MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
Re:	Nuttier than a shthouse rat!

In response to:
Isn't it awful to think -- what if they HAD that debate in March 2003, instead of the Bombing? If the people of the US had the opportunity to hear the voice & speech of Saddam Hussein, where he told us he was NOT an Enemy of America, & treated us with respect, UNLESS we came there as a soldier/invader. How Tragic, to look under tons of debris & twisted metal, & crumbled granite, to find underneath it all, were 2 huge beautiful white statues - Doves of Peace. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
Precious! But don't forget to look UNDER the doves. There you will find none other than the horribly mangled and crushed remains of NOSTRADAMNUS HIMSELF!!!!

Name:	Block Island
Re:	Kerry Sucks! I'd rather be BOOGERED than ABORTED!

In response to:
then they have no credibility to take away Communion just for an OPINION.

Message:
It isn't an opinion. It is a stand based on principle. Too bad you don't know the difference.

Name:

What is "Wierton" in Chinese?

In response to:
How Tragic, to look under tons of debris & twisted metal, & crumbled granite, to find underneath it all, were 2 huge beautiful white statues - Doves of Peace

Message:
You had damned well better have Hillary check the AIR QUALITY before you go poking around in that twisted metal!

Name:

Civil Bagdasarian

Message:

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	Endtime Prophecy Becomes a Reality in Temple Mount Faithful Pilgrimage

	Submitted By:Jack
	Click for Source Article
	1,934 years after the Temple has lain in ruins and the Jewish people have been exiled, The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement made a pilgrimage and marched to the Temple Mount during Pesach 2004. They brought with them an Omer offering to the G-d of Israel as well as ground from Gaza, Samaria, and Judea, symbolising the deep connection of these Biblical areas of the land of Israel to the focus of the land, on the Temple Mount, and to all the other part of the Promised Land. This was done at a time when the Arab and Islamic nations, as well as most of the world, is in the midst of a campaign to take these holy areas of the land of Israel turn them into a foreign 'Palestinian' state of terrorists and murderers. On Monday, 5 April 2004, a few hours before the start of the Feast of Pesach, a symbolic Passover sacrifice was performed on the Mt. of Olives in front of the Holy of Holies, the location of which was so close and was seen so clearly from the place where the sacrifice was performed. Despite the fact that it was a symbolic sacrifice — in accordance with Biblical law a full sacrifice can only be held on the Temple Mount — it again renewed the most important event of the Pesach holiday that our forefathers were strict to hold on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem thousands of years until the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE. Even after the destruction they made efforts to perform the Passover sacrifice on the Temple Mount. Through these exciting events, endtime prophecy again became a reality on the most holy place in the world: the heart, soul, and focus of the G-d and people of Israel. For so many years the Temple Mount has been separated from its children — the people of Israel — and the Shekinah has mourned, longed for, and missed them so much. So the children of Israel again made a pilgrimage as their forefathers did. After more than three years during which the Temple Mount was closed, the Israeli Government re-opened it for our march and the Faithful went up onto the Temple Mount with great excitement in their hearts and tears in their eyes, feeling so strongly the presence of the Shekinah of the G-d of Israel. In front of the place of the First and Second Temples we felt so deeply the significance of the godly endtimes in which we are now living in Israel. We felt that time is short and that the march of the endtime Faithful Movement of G-d is the march of the prophetic endtime plans and vision of G-d towards their fulfilment in our lifetime. The main message of this march was that the Arab Islamic foreigners and enemies who are still on the Temple Mount are now experiencing their last days on the most holy place in Israel. Not they, their allies, nor anybody else in the world, can prevent the march of the G-d and people of Israel back to the place where the house of G-d will soon be rebuilt. This will be the climax of the major godly endtime event which has been taking place in Israel before the eyes of all the nations since 1948 when the State of Israel was reestablished in the same land of the covenant by major godly miracles. In front of the holy mountain we could feel the presence of G-d so strongly calling on everyone of us and Israel saying: "And the angel who talked with me said to me, Proclaim, saying: Thus says the L-rd of hosts; I am zealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great zeal. And I am very much displeased with the nations that are at ease; for I was only a little angry, and they furthered the affliction. Therefore thus says the L-rd: I have returned to Jerusalem with mercies; my house shall be rebuilt in it, says the L-rd of hosts, and a measuring line shall be stretched over Jerusalem. Proclaim further, saying, Thus says the L-rd of hosts; My cities shall again overflow with prosperity; and the L-rd shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem." (Zechariah 1:14-17) This exciting and holy event was held by The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement on the 17 Nissan 5764, the third day of Pesach, (Thursday, 8 April 2004), beginning at 9:00 AM. Actually, the event started a day earlier on Wednesday when members of the Movement went to the fields of Israel to cut the Omer, the first grain, to fulfil one of the most important commandments of G-d in the Torah which our forefathers did for thousands of years as an important part of Temple worship at Pesach. "And the L-rd spoke to Moses, saying, Speak to the people of Israel, and say to them, When you come to the land which I give to you, and shall reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest; And he shall wave the sheaf before the L-rd, to be accepted for you" (Leviticus 23:9-11a) The grain which we cut was very beautiful - tall and full. This was as a result of the blessings of G-d on the land of Israel and a winter with much rain as a gift from G-d. It reminded us of the situation of the land in the Biblical times and the blessings of G-d on the land to be a land of milk and honey. This was after almost 2,000 years of destruction and foreign control in the land when the land became like a wilderness because of the law of G-d — which said that the land can be a land of milk and honey — only when Israel dwells in the land. Now when Israel has been brought back to the land by G-d , the land has again become a land of milk and honey. We were so grateful to bring the first fruits of this blessing as an offering to G-d on His holy mountain in Jerusalem. This is an offering of thanks, appreciation, and love. On Thursday morning the Omer was carried in baskets to the Temple Mount. The earth that we brought from Judea, Samaria, and Gaza was scattered around the holy site of G-d. This symbolised the deep connection between the G-d, the people, and the land of Israel. This renewed Biblical event moved the hearts of everyone. The model of the Temple which was carried to the Temple Mount and the Western Wall and the Western gate of the Temple Mount was another exiting event. The message was that the Temple should immediately be rebuilt. We brought the model with us to this holy place as an opening for the fulfilment of the desire of 1,934 years of longing by the Jewish people and many other friends of the G-d and people of Israel all over the world. The model was surrounded by many pilgrims who showed a deep interest with regard to the beauty of the building and the worship in it. We shared with the pilgrims that we had already started to prepare the architectural plans for the Third Temple and that large cornerstones are ready for the start of the building process. In front of the Western Gate of the Temple Mount, with our faces towards the site of the Holy of Holies, like our forefathers we again swore faithfulness to the G-d of Israel, His holy mountain, and Jerusalem. "If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. If I do not remember you, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Psalm 137:5,6) Like the pilgrims in the time of the First and Second Temples we prayed the Hallel Psalms (Psalms 113-118). These exciting Psalms were also heard in front of the other gates of the Temple Mount by the pilgrims from the Faithful Movement and the other pilgrims who joined them when we went around the gates and walls of the Temple Mount. This was accompanied by the Levites who played the music as in the times of the Temple. This was a special moment when the Shekinah heard the pilgrims praying and singing: "I will offer to you the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the L-rd. I will pay my vows to the L-rd now in the presence of all his people, In the courts of the L-rd's house, in the midst of you, O Jerusalem. Hallelujah!" (Psalms 116;17-19) The Pesach pilgrimage was an important stage in the campaign of the Movement for the rebuilding of the Temple. One month from now, on 19 May, the Temple Mount Faithful Movement will again march from Ammunition Hill — where many Israeli soldiers gave their lives for the liberation of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount — to the Temple Mount on the day commemorating the liberation of Jerusalem in 1967. Time is short and we know that we have to continue to conduct our holy campaign even more intensively and to bring to pass the prophetic and godly endtime revolution on the holy mountain of G-d and to remove the pagan foreigners from the site of the Holy of Holies and from all the holy mountain of Zion. The Jerusalem Day march will be another important stage in this holy campaign. We shall do everything to ensure that the exciting prophecy of Isaiah will soon become a reality on the Temple Mount and in Jerusalem: "Awake, awake; put on your strength, O Zion; put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city; from now on there shall no more come to you the uncircumcised and the unclean. Shake yourself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem; loose yourself from the bands of your neck, O captive daughter of Zion. ... How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news, who announces peace; who brings good news of good, who announces salvation; who says to Zion, Your God reigns! The voice of your watchmen is heard; together shall they sing; for they shall see eye to eye, when the L-rd returns to Zion. Break forth into joy, sing together, you ruins of Jerusalem; for the L-rd has comforted his people, he has redeemed Jerusalem. The L-rd has made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God." (Isaiah 52:1,2,7-10) Everyone is called on to participate in this historic event and to march with the Temple Mount Faithful Movement to the Temple Mount through the historical streets of Jerusalem. We are living at a very godly and exciting time in the history of Israel. Expect major godly events in the near future. (photos on source page)

Name:	Mother
To:	King G. Biv
Re:	Teentsy Weentsy Puddin'

In response to:
I'm Gay.

Name:	Berkie Rosenfelder
Re:	Change

In response to:
If the people of the US had the opportunity to hear the voice & speech of Saddam Hussein, where he told us he was NOT an Enemy of America, & treated us with respect, UNLESS we came there as a soldier/invader. How Tragic, to look under tons of debris & twisted metal, & crumbled granite, to find underneath it all, were 2 huge beautiful white statues - Doves of Peace

Message:
We need to get Bush out of there and put Saddam Hussein in charge of the United nations under President Hillary Rodham Clinton!

Name:	Kautzenjammer
To:	All
Re:	Super Security Gestapo Redux

In response to:
High-tech SPYS EVERYWHERE! Cool!

Message:
All-encompassing surveillance is essential to the continued security of the Reich!

Name:	Saddam Hussein
To:	Gullible
Re:	Uncle Saddam is children's delight! Yo ho!

In response to:
Maybe all this time, Saddam has been the Wizard of Oz, hiding behind the curtain, making loud fearsome noises, to keep the people afraid of his awesome power

Name:	Veronica Delmonico
Re:	Change

In response to:
Grits & bacon on sourdough toast with grape jelly and scrambled eggs

Message:
Under Hillary, while men are busy waddling around with a bellies like elephants, women will play soccer and racketball while getting drunk frequently, & running off to bars and impregnating other women at random! The world will be a much better place when women finally enjoy numerical parity with men on Death Row!!

Name:	Life long Democrat
To:	forum
Re:	Sen. John Kerry is emminently qualified

In response to:
Kerry is from a wealthy family, out of touch with the working class, plays fast and loose with the truth, chases woman, was against the Viet Nam War though he fought in it and admitted committing and going along with minor atrocities. His Purple Hearts are for scratches, probably self inflicted or "Would you shoot me up a bit for $50?" Army Buddy:"Sure, man, I'd ding you even for FREE!"

2) Just because his mother was a Forbes is not a disqualifier. She was from a wealthy family but had many siblings with which to divide the inheritance.

3) Sen. Kerry came clean and confessed before the Congress while offending not a one of them!

4) People change their minds. He liked Jane Fonda and I wish she would have persuaded me to have good times with her as she did with Kerry. I would not have been so desperate for love as to date fat women.

5) What's wrong with being rich. He cheated no one to amass this $720 million. He is no corporate crook. He inherited only a million or two from the Forbes family.

6) He's no rich kid wastrel, chasing women, partying, drugging. Oh he chases a few women but descretely, and he does no hard drugs at parties or with friends.

7) He was wounded three times in three months, although scarless and not permanently afflicted, he was heroic in defense of comrads and country!

8) We're lucky to get someone willing to pay his own way. That bunch of pikers had no where-with-all, gumption, or staying power when it came to spending their own money. Kerry is diffe

Name:	Scroll Mouse
Re:	flipper